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	<title>Comments on: Online Abuse and Harassment: Where are the Rules?</title>
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	<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/</link>
	<description>Have Blog. Will Travel.</description>
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		<title>By: victim too</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-83440</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[victim too]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 08:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-83440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, I too was victim of online stalking, and harassment. I was left in the cold,I reported with proof, nothing happened, I watched as my abusers got mod jobs, I was eventually black balled off a site by the gang ups, they got my IP from mods, site owners protecting them as they lied about it, the site owners believed them over the proof, I was threatened( bodily hard in Private messages in chatrooms), followed to other sites, had a myspace created to recruiting people to stalk me(myspace did nothing to stop it), received calls at home. These stalkers soon over flowed to twitter recently, I reported them twitter, they did nothing to protect me. I also learned there is no help out there, and no one really cares..I tried the online help places to report this, no ever contacted me, or help in anyway. It&#039;s been a year with some reports.
This is sad, and I agree guild lines/help need to be established. I live a in fear that one day I may get physically hurt by these people, it is just matter of time..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I too was victim of online stalking, and harassment. I was left in the cold,I reported with proof, nothing happened, I watched as my abusers got mod jobs, I was eventually black balled off a site by the gang ups, they got my IP from mods, site owners protecting them as they lied about it, the site owners believed them over the proof, I was threatened( bodily hard in Private messages in chatrooms), followed to other sites, had a myspace created to recruiting people to stalk me(myspace did nothing to stop it), received calls at home. These stalkers soon over flowed to twitter recently, I reported them twitter, they did nothing to protect me. I also learned there is no help out there, and no one really cares..I tried the online help places to report this, no ever contacted me, or help in anyway. It&#8217;s been a year with some reports.<br />
This is sad, and I agree guild lines/help need to be established. I live a in fear that one day I may get physically hurt by these people, it is just matter of time..</p>
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		<title>By: FoolsGold</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76600</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FoolsGold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76600</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder if this is a viral-marketing attempt or some sort of sham protest for corporate gain. If so, perhaps the complainant should focus on the fact that while twitter is the market leader and ponce the up-and-coming &#039;me too&#039; contender, there can yet be a third contender: some firm that sticks to their task of microblogging rather than concocting press releases about how evil a competitor is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if this is a viral-marketing attempt or some sort of sham protest for corporate gain. If so, perhaps the complainant should focus on the fact that while twitter is the market leader and ponce the up-and-coming &#8216;me too&#8217; contender, there can yet be a third contender: some firm that sticks to their task of microblogging rather than concocting press releases about how evil a competitor is.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomorrow Museum &#187; Archive &#187; Twitter TOS</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomorrow Museum &#187; Archive &#187; Twitter TOS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 17:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in some way.&#8221; More on spontaneous order and misogyny from RadGeek. Elsewhere, people are comparing Waldman with Kathy Sierra. The easiest way to work around it seems to be by making a user&#8217;s response feed private. As [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in some way.&#8221; More on spontaneous order and misogyny from RadGeek. Elsewhere, people are comparing Waldman with Kathy Sierra. The easiest way to work around it seems to be by making a user&#8217;s response feed private. As [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JoeDuck</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76555</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JoeDuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 23:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76555</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was wondering about that also FG but hard to judge without all the facts. I felt &quot;guilty&quot; about it until I noticed how she was clearly showing great toleration for the very term she seemed to think proved how Twitter was in violation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering about that also FG but hard to judge without all the facts. I felt &#8220;guilty&#8221; about it until I noticed how she was clearly showing great toleration for the very term she seemed to think proved how Twitter was in violation.</p>
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		<title>By: FoolsGold</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76554</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FoolsGold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 23:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder if the corporate connection to a competing firm is indicative of what is really happening here. Sort of a minor issue blown out of proportion for a competitive advantage.

I&#039;m unclear just where the so-called cyberstalking is taking place or what the offensive posts are, so I assume the parties involved really just want the headlines stirred up a bit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the corporate connection to a competing firm is indicative of what is really happening here. Sort of a minor issue blown out of proportion for a competitive advantage.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m unclear just where the so-called cyberstalking is taking place or what the offensive posts are, so I assume the parties involved really just want the headlines stirred up a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeDuck</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76553</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JoeDuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 23:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Horatiox good point about the slippery slope.  Although I think the lack of moderation is more of a problem than abuse of moderation, there is plenty o&#039; trouble from both and it&#039;s going to get worse before it gets better.

KOS&#039; unapologetic political censorship bugs me, though not as much as FOX news&#039; pretense of objectivity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horatiox good point about the slippery slope.  Although I think the lack of moderation is more of a problem than abuse of moderation, there is plenty o&#8217; trouble from both and it&#8217;s going to get worse before it gets better.</p>
<p>KOS&#8217; unapologetic political censorship bugs me, though not as much as FOX news&#8217; pretense of objectivity.</p>
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		<title>By: FoolsGold</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FoolsGold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 20:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;...The word &lt;b&gt;she&lt;/b&gt; says is so objectionable.&quot;

Values vary. Most women object to the &quot;C word&quot; as do men. Its just that men consider &quot;the C-word&quot; to be &quot;committment&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;The word <b>she</b> says is so objectionable.&#8221;</p>
<p>Values vary. Most women object to the &#8220;C word&#8221; as do men. Its just that men consider &#8220;the C-word&#8221; to be &#8220;committment&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: horatiox</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76546</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[horatiox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 17:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry for rant, Duck. I humbly suggest that the DailyKOS comrades have, to a large extent, effectively destroyed rational online discussion--it&#039;s all gonzo now (sort of bad Ring Lardner-sportswriter slang, not even HS Thompson or Hitchens).    (Delete after opening)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for rant, Duck. I humbly suggest that the DailyKOS comrades have, to a large extent, effectively destroyed rational online discussion&#8211;it&#8217;s all gonzo now (sort of bad Ring Lardner-sportswriter slang, not even HS Thompson or Hitchens).    (Delete after opening)</p>
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		<title>By: horatiox</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76545</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[horatiox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 17:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really, the &quot;politics of moderation&quot; raises some interesting issues. Were blog discussions primarily fact-based, concerning evidence, verification--de Re, instead of De Dicto--then there would be little need for the ugly mano-a- mano one sees on most blogs.  Recall the arguments regarding the Church of Gore, and AGW: one disputes the data, the climatologist&#039;s models, and indeed the science of AGW (as Crichton capably did a few years ago--alas Big Al unlikely knows &quot;Margin of Error&quot; from Marge Simpson ).  One tries to eliminate defamation and personal attacks. And pure in terms of De Re it was seen that AGW was making some rather unsupported claims (though that doesn&#039;t mean that one should join the Gore haters. One assesses the evidence, instead of getting in the frat-boy food fight).

Alas most political blogs do not allow for careful assessment of fact claims, or even for non-ideological writing. Political writing, er, barking is not science: it&#039;s more like Biff and Bunny and pals arguing in the cafeteria: you nazi! you pinko commie! etc. Logic, science, reason itself has little to do with it. When someone starts calling (or even insinuating) Hillary a nazi, the discussion has ended. Even on blogs not specifically concerned with politics, one notes this sort of &quot;FoodFightSpeak.&quot; 

Absent careful data-based writing (even say &quot;persuasive rhetoric&quot; ala some of the Slate hacks) language become a sort of weapon--closer to say what Tony Soprano and pals do. You see this on DailyKOS as well: the regs specialize in a sort of thieves&#039; jargon, and then decorate the site with the heads of the villains--Hillary/Cheney/Lieberman&#039;s heads mounted on the virtual wall (and then Cheney&#039;s effigy like put in a dress). At least Hunter S. Thompson did his gonzo-satire with some class.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really, the &#8220;politics of moderation&#8221; raises some interesting issues. Were blog discussions primarily fact-based, concerning evidence, verification&#8211;de Re, instead of De Dicto&#8211;then there would be little need for the ugly mano-a- mano one sees on most blogs.  Recall the arguments regarding the Church of Gore, and AGW: one disputes the data, the climatologist&#8217;s models, and indeed the science of AGW (as Crichton capably did a few years ago&#8211;alas Big Al unlikely knows &#8220;Margin of Error&#8221; from Marge Simpson ).  One tries to eliminate defamation and personal attacks. And pure in terms of De Re it was seen that AGW was making some rather unsupported claims (though that doesn&#8217;t mean that one should join the Gore haters. One assesses the evidence, instead of getting in the frat-boy food fight).</p>
<p>Alas most political blogs do not allow for careful assessment of fact claims, or even for non-ideological writing. Political writing, er, barking is not science: it&#8217;s more like Biff and Bunny and pals arguing in the cafeteria: you nazi! you pinko commie! etc. Logic, science, reason itself has little to do with it. When someone starts calling (or even insinuating) Hillary a nazi, the discussion has ended. Even on blogs not specifically concerned with politics, one notes this sort of &#8220;FoodFightSpeak.&#8221; </p>
<p>Absent careful data-based writing (even say &#8220;persuasive rhetoric&#8221; ala some of the Slate hacks) language become a sort of weapon&#8211;closer to say what Tony Soprano and pals do. You see this on DailyKOS as well: the regs specialize in a sort of thieves&#8217; jargon, and then decorate the site with the heads of the villains&#8211;Hillary/Cheney/Lieberman&#8217;s heads mounted on the virtual wall (and then Cheney&#8217;s effigy like put in a dress). At least Hunter S. Thompson did his gonzo-satire with some class.</p>
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		<title>By: horatiox</title>
		<link>http://joeduck.com/2008/05/23/online-abuse-and-harassment-where-are-the-rules/#comment-76544</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[horatiox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 10:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joeduck.wordpress.com/?p=1682#comment-76544</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Whatever tiny advantages we might gain in free speech from an “anything goes” policy are washed away as debate is stifled under the threat of the virtual violence turning into real violence.&lt;/i&gt;

Though I am reluctant to support those who want to censor or moderate (or &quot;troll rate&quot; as the KOS comrades say), I understand to some extent TOS which  commenters consent to by logging on to a site.  It&#039;s a contextual thing really, and moderators should be capable editors (which, unfortunately, many webmeisters aren&#039;t). Obscenities, even racial epithets, might be amusing at times. Other times not.  Threats unless done in jest or ironic are generally not cool, and often can get fairly nasty--but usually can be shrugged off (not always--online thugs are becoming more common).  

Moderation and censorship often become a sort of &quot;slippery slope&quot;, however. This happened on KOS and other sites over the last few years. One might agree to not use obscenity or harrass anyone--fine. Moderators all too often mistake dissent for a type of harrassment or even threat (at least threat to ideology), however. Some Kossack reg. insists that Obama has solutions to any and all political problems, and those who object, in some strange leap of logic, are considered threats, troll-rated, and the apparatchiks slowly gain control of a site, and the web.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Whatever tiny advantages we might gain in free speech from an “anything goes” policy are washed away as debate is stifled under the threat of the virtual violence turning into real violence.</i></p>
<p>Though I am reluctant to support those who want to censor or moderate (or &#8220;troll rate&#8221; as the KOS comrades say), I understand to some extent TOS which  commenters consent to by logging on to a site.  It&#8217;s a contextual thing really, and moderators should be capable editors (which, unfortunately, many webmeisters aren&#8217;t). Obscenities, even racial epithets, might be amusing at times. Other times not.  Threats unless done in jest or ironic are generally not cool, and often can get fairly nasty&#8211;but usually can be shrugged off (not always&#8211;online thugs are becoming more common).  </p>
<p>Moderation and censorship often become a sort of &#8220;slippery slope&#8221;, however. This happened on KOS and other sites over the last few years. One might agree to not use obscenity or harrass anyone&#8211;fine. Moderators all too often mistake dissent for a type of harrassment or even threat (at least threat to ideology), however. Some Kossack reg. insists that Obama has solutions to any and all political problems, and those who object, in some strange leap of logic, are considered threats, troll-rated, and the apparatchiks slowly gain control of a site, and the web.</p>
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