Bailout Blues + Red Ink = Spending Revolution Needed.


Washington does not understand why taxpayers are so angry about the bailout.   Some pundits are calling this ignorance, but I think to the extent *anybody* can predict things taxpayers know pretty much what is going on here, and realize there is major hardship ahead whether or not the bailout moves forward as proposed, as a modified bailout, or does not happen at all.    Some of this is already reflected in the stagnant broader markets we’ve seen for the past few years, and some reflected today in the Dow’s drop of about 700 at the close.  But this is not a meltdown, suggesting to me that the rumors of total market meltdowns have been at least somewhat exaggerated.

Paul Samuelson noted today in an excellent article that we are basically seeing the bankruptcy of modern economics:

Our leaders are making up their responses from day to day because old ideas of how the economy works have failed them. These ideas were not necessarily wrong, but they’re grievously inadequate at the moment

The American experiment was spawned in large part as a revolution against military-inspired spending taxation from Britain.    Few today realize that the taxation levels of the 1770’s were so tiny by today’s standards that they would not raise a modern eyebrow, let alone spawn any kind of spending revolution.

Over the past 230 years times have changed and we now expect Government to tax us at what the founders would have seen as enormous and totally unacceptable rates, and spend *even more* than they take in, leading to a deficit so large it is in my view of greater economic concern – far greater – than the current recession (which will be getting a lot worse, bailout or not).

What would restore most taxpayer’s confidence?    Massive Government spending *cuts*, not massive Government spending as proposed in the bailout.

For most of the modern era Washington’s response to problems has been massive debt spending, pushing problems forward to future generations who’ll have to pay down our debt.   The Bailout was a similar response unless you accept the optimistic notion that all of that 700 billion will come back after the toxic assets were sold off by the Government.   Most likely based on my take some but not all will come back.

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About JoeDuck

Internet Travel Guy, Father of 2, small town Oregon life. BS Botany from UW Madison Wisconsin, MS Social Sciences from Southern Oregon. Top interests outside of my family's well being are: Internet Technology, Online Travel, Globalization, China, Table Tennis, Real Estate, The Singularity.
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830 Responses to Bailout Blues + Red Ink = Spending Revolution Needed.

  1. Sharon says:

    Just listened to Glenn beck. This 700 billion was just an estimated amount and probably could be in the trillions!

  2. JoeDuck says:

    Sharon if you want to get even more scared read Ben Stein on the insurance derivatives which can lead to banks having tens of trillions of exposure.

    I’ll be in favor of a bailout if we see Wall Street down another 1000 and no signs of market based correction of the problem. But I want a lot of blood in this – we should find a way to tax the fat cats who made fortunes in 2005-2008 while they ignored how their actions would affect the economy.

  3. Paul says:

    There is a precedent for a significant segment of the tax dollars coming back – RTC. It worked far better than any thought it would at the outset, though the scope of this malaise is much larger.

    Cannot post to “Bailing Out the Bailout” any further, it’s become a bit too partisan for my tastes.

    As to damage today, the 8.8% loss in the S&P 500 was the largest loss in 20 years. It’s hard for me to see where that is not meaningful. Another symptom that gives scale: when Worldcom filed in 2002 they has assets of 104 billion; Lehman’s assets when they filed last week were 630 billion!
    This malaise is larger than anything in recent memory by a sizable margin.

  4. Paul says:

    p.s. – Barron’s had an excellent write-up (written before today’s vote) on how taxpayers could actually end up ahead on the Treasury plan titled “Making A Mint” – well worth a read for a viewpoint that is different from most making their way into the popular press.

  5. glenn says:

    Let them fail. Japan bailed out their financial system and they are still paying for it today. All it did was delay the correction.

    There are many things wrong and they need to be corrected and even though the market is brutally efficient in doing so and therefore people get hurt – they get hurt for a much shorter period of and the result is a much stronger economy going forward.

    It is time for the games to end and get our country back on track economically.

    Even Pelosi said today she loves a Free Market and so if that is true – let’s let it rip and this over with sooner rather than later.

  6. glenn says:

    http://www.businessweek.com/1998/43/b3601106.htm

    Sound familiar, look at the dollar amount in 1998 dollars…yikes.

    Reading the rhetoric is sounds like deja-vu. Many experts believe the 1998 Japanese Bank Bail-out just prolonged the problem and caused their banking system to be under-performing for years and some think they still have fully recovered.

    Just because you are throwing a lot of money at something doesn’t mean you can fix it.

  7. JoeDuck says:

    My gut reaction is to agree with Glenn, let this all rip and have the markets struggle to fix it for awhile. Today I read that global banks are talking about pitching in to a 600 billion package to free up funds.

    However Paul has been making several good points, namely that if the bailout is handled as well as RTC this would actually be a revenue positive event for the US Treasury.

    If the broader markets fall dramtically again tomorrow it will probably convince me it’s time for the bailout …

  8. Paul says:

    Sweden is the model we want to emulate. Much has been written on Japan and the lions share of it emphasizes very significant differences between their system – going into their crisis – and ours. Just one is that Japan never would have allowed a Lehman to fail. We did.

  9. horatiox says:

    Tax the fat cats

    Start by taking a look at the fat cats’–and fatcat banks– reported capital gains from trades in crude oil markets during the Bush Admin and IWE. That might turn into more like a RICO investigation, however.

  10. glenn says:

    I should clarify my position. I think the government needs to do something but it has to move far away from a bailout approach.

    They can insure the bad paper at a fraction of the cost currently being discussed – so that protects the banks.

    They need to fix the mark to market rules so that the insured paper can be discounted away from a price erosion of an institute – as to say take the bad paper out of the equation of valuing the institution.

    Increase the fed’s ability to make more money available for credit and provide an aggressive business loan capability that allows small businesses that are otherwise fiscally viable the ability to get loans.

    Eliminate capital gains until the market fully recovers – this alone would really incite people to re-invest and the market would rebound well with this type of policy. Let’s face it with the losses from this year alone people are not going to have significant cap gains for years to come anyway.

    Lastly serious new oversight on complicated and the “this sounds to good to be true” financial instruments these institutions invent.

    Finally they need to announce serious investigations into ALL of these components that have lead to this.

    Additionally I think the congress should repudiate Nancy Pelosi today for her outrageous behavior during this process. When you listen to her unnecessary speech today and then see who was allowed to vote Nay on the Democrats side it is a complete disgrace.

    A new even bi-partisan committee should be formed to solve this and it should take as long as it take.

  11. Paul says:

    An interesting tidbit on MSNBC on how the vote came out – virtually all the NAYs – irrespective of political affiliation – were from candidates who are in / or have been in recently – a tight race. Most of the yes votes came from those whose seats are considered secure or who have never been in a tight race.

    No time to research this to see if true, but it certainly sounds plausible. Public outcry was significant and very vocal against the plan.

  12. glenn says:

    What is interesting Paul is the nay votes on the democratic side were a lot chair and sub-chair positions that were appointed by Pelosi. She wanted a super majority perception but it could not have gone over well for House Republicans to see the chairs and sub-chairs voting nay.

    Add her vitreolic speech immediately before the vote (even Frank looked shocked that she wanted to speak) that was supposed to be a minute and went on for over 5 minutes which was full of partisan rhetoric…I don’t think I would have voted to support her shameful attempt to make political hay for this.

    From the beginning Pelosi has been playing partisan politics with this.

    First she blocked Republicans from joining the discussion and then claimed they boycotted…

    Second she claimed there was a deal when they found out McCain was coming into to town when she knew damn well there was no agreement…

    Third she staged a vote to create a perceived super majority to say she did her part and then tried to make political hay.

    At a time when this country needs us to come together to solve this in a reasonable and sound manner this is what she tries to pull. Unfortunately if she remains in office in November there will not be change we need if Obama is elected.

    Without the ability to increase spending and/or increase taxes (with this economic crisis all the tax revenue from the rich is now going to be a lot lower than Obama was hoping for) his grandiose plans and entitlements cannot happen…

    This is a very serious time for our country and we need a strong leader that is going to help bring us together and force both sides of the aisle to work together.

  13. glenn says:

    I think the number one issue with voters now will be accountability within our government.

    I will be interested to see what the polls finally say who is most responsible for this mess and I think it will come done by a wide margin that Congress is more responsible than anyone else and that is not good news for either party – but it shows the American people are right to be mad about how their elected officials are conducting business on our behalf.

  14. horatiox says:

    Samuelson made some interesting points. The trickle-down’ers or Lil’ Green Footballs types who think economics equals finance, the stock market, investment, etc. should note Samuelson’s distinction between the “real economy” of production and jobs, and the wonderland of finance. It’s sort of a traditional viewpoint, along the lines of “academic economists really don’t know WTF the problem is with the financial markets.”

  15. horatiox says:

    Another sort of obvious point Re Big Losses in S n P 500 and Dow: what about bear contrarians, many of whom are deep pocket corps and banks??? Yes Ma N Pa Kettle may have lost a bit on their 401 K (unless they’ve got some spreads or puts in their portfolio), but downtrending markets can be just as profitable as increasing, obviously–often more. That’s one of the perqs at the speculation casino: the savvy gambler ala Rothschilds makes a fortune as the economy collapses, or as critical supplies (like petroleum reserves) dry up.

  16. Paul says:

    Pelosi’s speech certainly did no good, and was distasteful at best, but I think it’s overreaching to think the Republicans that turned would do so just because of her grandstanding. You would hope, if they truly thought it was in the countries best interests, they would ignore her and vote their conscience. 5 bank failures today – 4 abroad and 1 here; the largest market drop in 20 years, bigger even than post 9/11; and credit markets remain gridlocked. If Sweden could do it, we can to, but doing nothing will not reassure markets that are fragile and troubled worldwide. Joe cited the cutoff in credit to Sonic burger the other day. Credit crunches tend to hit with a lag and Sonc was just the tip of the iceberg. If this isn’t resolved far more worthy pillars of the economy than Sonic burger will find bankers unwilling or unable to lend, or lending only at rates that are unworkable. Main Street seems unconvinced that bad things can happen, but I am very convinced bad things will happen if the impasse in credit is not resolved. The first important step in that is getting the toxic paper off bank balance sheets and assessing its true value whilst capital ratios are rebuilt so liquidity & lending comes back to normal.

  17. glenn says:

    Pelosi calls them unpatriotic, she spews her nonsense right before the most important vote of the century when she needed the Republicans to vote with her.

    You would hope if she truly thought it was in the country’s best interest she would keep her partisan mouth shut but she didn’t, this country does not need someone like her.

    I think the Democrats and Republicans that voted nay did what the taxpayers of this country wanted – they voted down BAD legislation – oh wow what a concept the people we elected actually listened to us and did what we wanted and not what they wanted to push forward the political agenda.

    They will now be forced to create a good plan that is put on the corporation’s back and not the taxpayer’s back.

    We will see a much better solution than the fiasco that Bush, Paulson, Pelosi and Barney “The Corrupt” Frank tried to force at gunpoint on the American taxpayer.

  18. glenn says:

    And the foreign markets didn’t meltdown either last night…all this BS hype to scare people in the biggest ripoff of the century!

  19. Tommo says:

    See yer thought for the day in the link embedded in my nick 🙂

    A more serious link, to what I found to be a thoughtful commentary by Rep. Jim Marshall: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/marshall.economy/index.html

    I like his thinking about credit; the credit markets are definitely way out of hand, and have been so for a long time. How to fix it — I have no idea, but we need to start.

  20. glenn says:

    Our over burdensome tax policies have forced our country into this massive need for credit – it has been pitched by our greedy politicians that you need to use credit to get ahead. It is just a set up.

    What we need is investment and savings and we need policies that promote those two principles. I was taught you save your money and invest wisely and you live within your means. Your savings are there for a rainy day and your investment is there to get ahead and for retirement.

    Until we change our thinking on credit we will keep repeating this disaster.

  21. glenn says:

    There is no reason one penny of this plan needs to come from taxpayers. It should be 100% on the backs of the corporations who contributed to this.

    Make no mistake there were two major failure of our congress to act to avoid this.

    1) Multiple occasions the obvious problems with Freddie and Fannie were raised and congress opted to ignore or deliberately cover up their misdealings

    2) The overbearing legislation passed that actually forced these fiscally sound bodies to make bad loan decisions – seriously that is pure insanity

    I think this week we will see a strong turn on who America thinks is to blame and I would predict a majority of America and the world will view congress as the primary culprit here.

  22. glenn says:

    As I read and research more of the vote yesterday…it was surprising to see more than half of the Democrats on Barney Frank’s committee voted against this bill.

    If the Democrats really wanted this to pass we wouldn’t see this happening. Either Frank and Pelosi have failed miserably as leaders on the most important issue of the last century or this was just a political ploy to try to take the Whitehouse.

    It is time we voted people in that will truly represent what Americans want.

  23. horatiox says:

    Rep. Marshall’s article highlights some of the problems associated with the credit and money market business. Then David Ricardo and Karlo Marx hisself had highlighted similar problems (as did Keynes).

    Marshall at least realizes that credit panderers do not produce real goods. Indeed, it’s debatable whether lenders should even profit (at least to the extent they do) by extending credit–controlling interest rates one solution. That sort of discussion sounds a bit too leftist for most in consumerland, however (though credit unions are hardly as culpable as the mega-banks and lending institutions)

  24. Glenn says:

    Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron understands how this happened and fully understands how we need to fix it.

  25. Paul says:

    Excellent article in Newsweek on Credit Default Swaps, their origins and how they have contributed to the current crisis at: http://www.newsweek.com/id/161199

    As I read it last night, I couldn’t help but think of all the bright young minds that brought us “portfolio insurance” in the mid-80s, a significant contributor to the crash of ’87.

    Wall Street has a long history of dreaming up esoteric but powerful tools that skirt regulations and enrich their creators and work wonderfully – until they stop working. This is a prime example. Their avarice knows no bounds and prudence and common sense are left by the wayside in pursuit of ever greater profits.

  26. Paul says:

    (25) I read Miron’s editorial, he makes some very good points. I do question this one assertion however:

    “The costs of the bailout, moreover, are almost certainly being understated. The administration’s claim is that many mortgage assets are merely illiquid, not truly worthless, implying taxpayers will recoup much of their $700 billion.

    If these assets are worth something, however, private parties should want to buy them, and they would do so if the owners would accept fair market value. Far more likely is that current owners have brushed under the rug how little their assets are worth.”

    The underlying premise is that Wall Street is always efficient and that prices always reflect true value. We know from history this is not true, especially in a severe panic such as we have now. While there is surely some “brushing under the rug” going on, the real estate that backs these assets does have value, and likely more value than the market is currently pricing in.

    We saw this with the S&L crisis. S&L assets turned out to be worth more than the market was pricing them at the height of the panic and the Feds were ultimately able to get decent prices for a significant percentage of those toxic assets, limiting taxpayer losses.

    There is a downside to his proposal to just letting the market sort it out. The WSJ had an excellent and quite lengthy write-up yesterday on how there were numerous unexpected – and quite negative – repercussions from letting Lehman Brothers fail. While I think it was important to let Lehman fail so we don’t plant the seeds for yet another bubble in the future, there is a tipping point where the costs to society can be prohibitive in terms of lost jobs and a deep recession that touches industries far removed from Wall Street. The Lehman article shows just how intertwined the global markets are and how the failure of one part of the system can have unexpected & serious consequences globally. (Lehman’s Demise Triggered Cash Crunch Around the Globe:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122266132599384845.html

    There is merit to the argument that the cost of letting the market sort this all out may be higher than society is willing to tolerate.

  27. glenn says:

    Paul, my biggest concern and agrees with Miron that nothing that is being proposed fixes the problems that put us here.

    Why pour billions of dollars into a system and to the people that put us here in the first place?

    Let’s have a comprehensive solution that includes the fix.

    We can ease the credit crunch issue through a variety of means and it doesn’t necessarily need to be 100% on the taxpayers back. We are smarter than this.

  28. JoeDuck says:

    If these assets are worth something, however, private parties should want to buy them, and they would do so if the owners would accept fair market value. Far more likely is that current owners have brushed under the rug how little their assets are worth.”

    The underlying premise is that Wall Street is always efficient and that prices always reflect true value. We know from history this is not true, especially in a severe panic such as we have now.

    Paul I think this is the key unknown in the equation: the value of the toxic paper in a working market. My gut tells me that both sides are overstating their case here – ie it’s not worth 100% of what the Gov will pay (and we WILL be buying these bad loans – that is now very clear), but it’s worth more than nothing.

    Glenn – you are keeping the joint busy with links – good work but I need to catch up before I comment….

    I do think you are focusing too much on the DemoHacks. Although they bear a lot of responsibility (esp. Barnie Frank) for preventing tighter rules on Fannie and Freddie years ago, the stage for all this was largely set during a period when Republicans controlled most of the game.

    I’d say our politics-not-reason system has failed us (again), allowing clever fat cats to manipulate risk in unhealthy ways while the pols failed to pay enough attention and listened to lobbyists more than constituents. This combined with the related factor of a bursting house bubble which effectively drained away much of the wealth credit markets needed to keep on trucking effectively.

  29. glenn says:

    Joe – the big issue…if you went and bought a car from a guy and that car was a piece of crap and you needed to get another car – would you buy another car from that same guy?

    Of course not.

    I think America is stating enough is enough to the corruption and the games on Wall Street and in Congress. Until we have accountability in place how can anyone think it is reasonable or responsible for Americans to support this.

    They have been playing the fear game for two weeks and yet the markets haven’t completely collapsed. Not saying what is happening is good…but we need to take our time and fix this correctly.

    Paulson started this ball rolling with a plan that basically said give me $700 billion and let me spend it how I want to. Well we have been doing that…Fannie, AIG, etc and Paulson dumping money isn’t working.

  30. Paul says:

    There are other villains here, ones not discussed much, generic, non-political villains: 1. losing sight of risk and what it means and, of course, 2. greed. Wall Street lost sight of risk, regulators lost sight of risk, and home buyers everywhere bought into a myth that real estate values could outstrip incomes and grow to the sky. Contractors, builders and developers jumped in and overbuilt with disastrous consequences.

    Despite the hard lessons learned in the tech bubble millions of Americans went out and repeated the very same mistakes all over again.

    When everyone and his brother assures you that you “can’t lose in real estate” it is always prudent to consider an alternative reality. Almost nobody did.

  31. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn I agree that the politics has failed here but as Paul notes there are several other culprits in the mess. I think I’d agree with you that if we could do a “clean sweep” and bring in an entire new slate of folks dedicated to early founding principles it would be a good idea, but that can’t happen until we have a very powerful independent movement that could field a national slate of candidates. Currently if a district or state votes out their Senator or Congress person they lose seniority advantages. To me the seniority system is a major problem because it defies “one man one vote”, but congress is allowed to make it’s own rules and it makes them to advantage those currently in power.

    They are now very likely to pass a modified bailout bill, so it’s hard to tease out how much of today’s market rebound is from that and how much is from people assuming things are not as bad as the Congress and the President are suggesting.

  32. horatiox says:

    AS the writers of the linked Newsweek article suggest, the politicians are merely batting clean-up for the likes of JP Morgan, AIG, Lehman, G-sachs. The villains are not really Barney Mac, or Marquessa Pelosi, Paulsen, or even GOP good ol boys (tho someone like Gramm sort of got the ball rolling, as did Clinton): it’s JP Morgan, AIG, G-sachs (who Paulsen works for–).

    Financial giants like JP Morgan were, mostly because of de-reg, given all sorts of new schemes to cash in on mortgage securities; the credit default swaps the latest (really an insurance scam along with the usual corporate loan sharking).

    When the housing bubble bursts, and and/or foreclosures mount because of risky loans, the lenders go to their insurance boys, who don’t have nearly enough shekels to cover the losses–then someone calls in the Feds for corporate welfare. Without new/updated regs attached to the bailout, in effect the Govt will hand out additional gambling stipends.

  33. glenn says:

    Accountability

    The rescue bill needs accountability.

    Accountability at the Wall-Street level
    Accountability at the Main-Street level
    Accountability at the Penn Ave level
    Accountability at the East Capital Street level

    Accountability goes both ways. For those Americans who pay their mortgages on time they deserve a tax credit out of this.

  34. horatiox says:

    Accountability. You mean like, the initial Fannie Mae/New Deal regs, the Glass Steagall, FDIC, etc. perhaps?? The GOP worked for years to overturn those (starting at least with Nixon, who signed into effect FHLMC). With Demopublican Bill Clinton at the helm, the Gramm/Gingrich led GOP finally managed to end those regs, and allow the JP Morgans and AIGs and G-sachs to bring out the mortgage stack out on the financier’s poker table. 😉

  35. glenn says:

    Horatiox you just won’t stop your leftist/marxist dribble…LOL.

    If they follow the money trail you will see the left is far more responsible for this mess than anyone else.

    If you or I did what people like Dodd did with Country-wide, etc we would be in jail.

    If the American people actually believed a serious of what went wrong here and were going to fix it instead of business as usual this bill would have flown through regardless of what it is.

    The strong American response to this is as much a vote of no-confidence in our government than anything else.

  36. glenn says:

    When the dust settles here in the next 10 days or so the nightmare scenario for Obama is going to happen.

    Just like Obama tries to link McCain to Bush…

    Obama will definitely be linked to Freddie and Fannie and all the wrangling about de-reg is going to become secondary.

    And McCain would be smart to publicly state regardless of party affiliation he will get to the bottom it.

  37. horatiox says:

    Supporting the principles of New Deal legislation does not a marxist make (legislation/regs written SPECIFICALLY to prevent banks from cashing in on individual retirement/saving accounts, mortgages, etc.). Opposing the likes of Gramm and Clinton does not make one marxist (and I told you I’m not voting for BO–or Phil Gramm’s pal McCaint).

    I approach these sorts of issues from a historical perspective–not frat boy economics (as did even say Galbraith). A Samuelson’s not doing rocket science, but something like propaganda for Wall Street and corporate America, mainly.

    Anyway Marx was not the only one with a labor theory of value: Adam Smith himself held to one, as did most classical economists. For that matter, what’s the Catholic church–not to say Screepture–say about usury, outrageous interest rates, etc?? No bueno.

  38. glenn says:

    Almost up 500 points with the markets knowing a deal is not going to get passed.

    The only way this will get passed now is if they eliminate capital gains. If they eliminate capital gains our market will rally stronger than ever.

  39. Paul says:

    (37) Five weeks from today the country will decide and according to every poll I can lay my hands on McSame has some serious challenges to overcome. Kathleen Parker at the always conservative National Review has called for Palin to resign for the good of the country. McCain stopped his campaign to “address the crisis”, then had the bailout package go up in flames when his party bolted due to the popular uproar against it. In the one debate thus far, the one he was widely expected to win as it was about International affairs, most pundits called it a draw at best while polling indicates most Americans thought Obama had the edge overall.
    4176 of our sons and daughters have lost their lives over a war that had absolutely no justification. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. There were no ties between Hussein and Al Qaeda. Bin Laden still runs free in the mountains of Afghanistan, largely because we took our eye of the ball and chased after the wrong villain resulting in horrific human and financial costs. The respect that this country once had on the global stage has been seriously damaged, largely because of this and other related mistakes like Abu Ghraib.
    We’ve had eight long years to see how the other team does. We have 5 weeks to wait to see what most Americans think. My guess is they are not going to vote for 4 more years of the same madness.

  40. glenn says:

    I think most of America is middle right and I think the polls reflect the amount of anger within this country.

    Given the current state of the economy, the war, etc it should be impossible for a sitting party to retain the Whitehouse however this election is still too close and that is a good measure of how weak Obama really is as a national candidate.

    If Hillary were running for President this race would have already been over.

    I think the Democratic party has gone too far left to carry this election. When it is time to pull the level people paralyze on this issue and will go to their comfort zone.

    Of course I could be totally wrong but this race has been fascinating.

    I tend to be fiscally conservative (shocker) but I am rapid about corrupt politicians and I don’t care what party they are in.

    I also like middle of the road decisions which both parties would work together and deliver a consensus vote.

    I also think McCain has the track record of reaching across the aisle and bucking the trend to eliminate government waste on the other hand Obama will not reach across the aisle (he never has) and watching Pelosi this week really demonstrates to me that they will not be helpful for this country.

  41. Paul says:

    Polosi did not give impress me in the least with her divisive & partisan speech, nor do I lack reservations about Obama being too far left, but Palin being a heartbeat away from the Whitehouse – with a 72 year old President – terrifies me. Any equivocation I had about Obama was vaporized when McCain picked Palin. I know many Republican’s who are deeply troubled by her, though they will vote the ticket anyway.

    We’ll know soon enough, though I think I may have to go hide in a cave somewhere. The rhetoric – from both sides – is beyond tiresome at this stage

    Shifting gears, this article in today’s WSJ shows some of the larger failings of the bill that failed, specfically:
    “The size of equity stakes for the Treasury…was left unspecified”….”Limits on executive pay were applied sparingly.”….”Procedures for selling assets bought by the government were left up to Treasury, which was left to choose its own advisers on the sales-likely from the industry itself.”

    The full text can be found at:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122273248271788271.html

    Meaningful equity stakes are imperative to protecting taxpayers from getting fleeced.

  42. glenn says:

    I just found out there were two really big problems with the first Pelosi led response back to Bush and Paulson on the bail-out last week.

    1) They wanted ACORN to receive money from this bail-out process
    2) They wanted to force the Wall-Street firms that were being bailed out to put union leaders on the Board of Directors of the bank.

    Sorry but this has to be stupidest thing I have ever heard. WTH is wrong with our elected officials that can actually believe either of these would help this situation.

  43. glenn says:

    (42) Paul there is a pretty big misconception about McCain’s health – in fact it is reported his health is stellar. Actually Joe Biden has some very serious health issues so try this one on for size…

    If Biden were President and he got sick…Nancy Pelosi would step in to run the country – think about that one for a nanosecond…

    I think we need to see what Palin does on Thursday…at a minimum we should give her credit for getting so many people in this years election regardless of party that is a good thing.

  44. glenn says:

    The Obama nightmare scenario has begun. This ad is going to have serious impact in this race:

    http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/30/mccain-uses-bill-clinton-in-new-ad/

  45. horatiox says:

    Alex Cockburn of Counterpunch (guar-an-teeed to irritate the F. out of the usual Demopublican) has penned some thoughts on the crisis:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn09202008.html

    “””The system is in dire crisis, nowhere more balefully manifest that in present and scheduled Pentagon spending, barely mentioned in these days of crisis. Stick it to the imprudent home buyers, not to the arms manufacturers and their gigantic pigsty, seeping its sewage across the planet.

    But then, as the cranky German in the British Museum liked to point out, the capitalist system is always in crisis. Crisis is integral to the system. In too many ways, over the past twenty years, brooding on its own crises, the left has forgotten that and in the low contour of radical ideas and of radical political organization in this electoral cycle we are suffering the consequences.””””

    Reachin’ for that Babushka hat…….

  46. glenn says:

    We all should be very concerned about ACORN. This poses an unprecedented threat to our democracy. They are connected to this bail-out in a second. Please read on.

    There are investigations in at least 12 states right now about ACORN fraudulent voter registration activities.

    Over the last 10 years they have been indicted and convicted of rampant voter fraud many time.

    Detroit just reported that ACORN has submitted over 100,000 fraudulent voter registrations.

    ACORN is supposed to be non-partisan and receives Government money – our tax dollars but they only register Democrats.

    The original version of the bail-out included millions potentially going to ACORN and boy does that sound strange until I heard about what ACORN used to do.

    When a bank wasn’t giving enough bad loans to unqualified mortgage seekers based on Freddie and Fannie/CRA BS, ACORN would demonstrate in front of the bank and harass the bank president until the bank caved in and met the Democratic imposed quotas.

    Obama was one of ACORNS attorneys for 3 years.

    Obama was one of ACORNS trainers – he taught ACORN staff how to demonstrate in front of the banks.

    Obama campaign has paid ACORN $800k this year.

    Think about all of that – this is not spin these are facts. This is the kind of stuff we are facing in this election. Does any of this make sense to you?

  47. glenn says:

    Prediction: When McCain gets elected – Hillary will have a cabinet post.

  48. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn I thought the ACORN thing was out of the bill. Certainly agree it’s nonsense to include funding the very type of group that has probably contributed to the crisis by encouraging and legally trying to force irresponsible lending.

  49. glenn says:

    What bothers me is why no one is asking why Obama has spent $800k this year with ACORN?

    They are a corrupt organization that violates our voting laws and deliberately tries to undermine the very core of why democracy works. If that isn’t an assault on all Americans I don’t know what is?

    The excuse you will hear is – well the volunteers are the ones convicted and go to jail and we do so many other good things…ROFL – 10 years of convictions in dozens and dozens of states – it is systemic and goes to the very top of the organization.

    Why would you put so much money into an organization that does not believe in democracy – it believe in an agenda that tries to undermine our economy and our votes?

    I couldn’t believe what they have done in Detroit…they are handling the same day register and vote in Ohio and that state could come down to 100k votes or less about 4-5 votes per precinct. This is scary!!!

    BTW: Frank and Dodd insisted originally that it be in the bail-out.

    You are correct it is out but we have to go back and look at the mentality of the people involved. They had no interest in fixing the problem or accepting responsibility it was business as usual for these purloiners!

  50. glenn says:

    More information about ACORN. I find it amazing to find out that Dodd and Frank ear-marked $750,000,000 (yep that’s right 3/4’s of a billion) to be given to ACORN. Obama is tightly connected to ACORN – he even has spent $800k this on ACORN – seriously what is going on here.

    Obama claims he is guilty by association – how many bad associations do you have to have before you begin to wonder how guilty someone is?

    I must be really out of touch because I don’t personally know too many people that seem to hate America as much as the associations of Obama. Not only are organizations like ACORN criminal they are Un-American.

    The far left of the party has hijacked America and is trying to destroy this great country. Isn’t this Freddie and Fannie, ACORN, etc enough? Don’t we have a right to say to these people – STOP, America doesn’t want this kind of stuff in our country? We want our economy to be based on sound principles, we want our elections to be fair…

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3120376&referralPlaylistId=c985e69916535a2170b2b18ab0ab7eb60401f9bb

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3120753&referralPlaylistId=playlist

  51. glenn says:

    (42) Hey Paul looks like our debate process in this country has now been compromised as well.

    oh – oh !!
    by Greta Van Susteren

    I confirmed for us here on GretaWire: the McCain campaign did NOT know about Gwen Ifill’s book (I think I told them when I made my efforts – emails about midnight – to find out!) I am stunned….the campaign (actually both) should have been told before the campaign agreed to have her moderate. It simply is not fair – in law, this would create a mistrial.

    PBS anchor Gwen Ifill, who is moderating Thursday’s VP debate, is releasing a new book on Barack Obama, raising some questions about her objectivity.

    Does this bother anyone else out there?

  52. glenn says:

    You know you just can’t make this stuff up…LOL.

  53. Paul says:

    I feel “The News Hour” with Jim Lehrer is one of the better sources for objective and insightful reporting, certainly much more objective than Fox News. It’s a tempest in a teapot, she’ll do just fine and – with the added pressure of the book topic out there – will go overboard to be non-partial.

    The moderator just asks the questions, it is what the candidates say that makes the debate.

    Tim Russert would be the best choice of course, but sadly we’ve lost him.

  54. glenn says:

    Paul any reasonable person that had a financial gain in this would have recused themselves.

    1) She didn’t disclose it, why because if she did she would have been out of contention.

    It is amazing to me that know one wants to assert accountability and put a stop to this recurring theme of greed.

    It is like…doesn’t matter if we bend the rules, break the law or even engage in fiscally irresponsible behavior its ok because we have to get Obamesaiah elected.

    The point here is disclosure, doing what is right and not trying to manipulate an election.

    They talk about controlling the “message” which I understand from PR 101 but this election cycle seems like it is more like controlling the “message” so people don’t get it right.

    The lawsuits filed after this election are going to be ridiculous and it will be amazing if we even know who got elected by the day they are supposed to be sworn in.

  55. glenn says:

    I can imagine what people would be saying if the moderator was a person releasing a favorable book about McCain, etc…

    And now the pork in the new bill to bail-out Wall-Street is beyond insanity…are you reading what is ending up in the bill. They now have mental health in there, stuff about kid’s toys, etc…

  56. glenn says:

    Even better I can imagine the outrage if a white female debate moderator wrote a book about America’s great woman and wrote glowingly about Sarah Palin’s accomplishments as a woman in politics…

    Such hypocrisy on the left and the media…

  57. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn it sounds kind of fishy, but if the book is a simple biography I’m not sure it means she won’t be objective with Biden and Palin. If the book is a glowing piece promoting Obama without examining his flaws then I totally agree she acted very questionably.

    Note that Bob Woodward has written two Bush books but he’d hardly be their choice for a moderator. Let’s see what questions she asks – I think they will be fair and reasonable.

  58. glenn says:

    Wait until you hear about earmarks…in this bill.

    Race tracks
    America Somoa
    Mine Rescue teams
    Rum from Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico
    Wool research
    Wooden arrows for children
    Mental health

    the list is staggering…450 pages in this bill now.

    Congress is now down to 10% approval…how low does it go before we revolt?

    They just don’t get it.

  59. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn after hearing that her book comes on on Inauguration Day I agree that Gwen Ifill should offer to resign her moderator position. McCain would refuse that because he knows she’ll be objective, but she now has a conflict of interest with her book that is too glaring to overlook:
    http://blog.presidentpicker.com/2008/10/gwen-ifills-debate-dilemma.html

  60. horatiox says:

    Reasons there are to be somewhat concerned about ACORN. At the same time, the GOP’s not completely innocent in regards to vote-tampering accusations: think Gore and Florida 2000—at the very least, existing law prevented additional recounts, so tampering was a possibility.

    Not the case in Ohio 2004: in fact the DNC and leading Dems, including Kerry, decided not to press the case. The Diebold e-voting machines are fairly easy to crack for an admin. (tho’ hardly a GOP monopoly on election/booth workers).

    ACORN’s probably not so much vote tampering ala Florida but ballot stuffing in old Tammany Hall Demo/unionist tradition. The ACORN posse registers a bunch of people at the last minute– felons, street people, who knows–or even invents names (as has been alleged), and hire anyone to fill out bogus reg. forms: “yo, Tyrone, make up some names for peoples, dawg.” It goes down in the LA ‘hoods all the time; the recent LA mayoral victory for Comrade Villaigarosa over James Hahn, a good mensch, most likely involved some vote tampering/fraud–as did Feinstein’s victories back in the day. Bipartisan dystopia.

  61. glenn says:

    Horatiox – ACORN is supposed to be bi-partisan and they receive millions in taxpayers dollars.

    They are not bi-partisan and they have over 10 years of voter fraud convictions and over a dozen investigations in process for this election.

    Don’t even begin to compare this to anything else.

    ALL of America should stand up to this type of abuse and restore the integrity back into our political process.

    Of course Obama had the power and opportunity to do that but what did he do…lawyer ed for them, trained them and just put $800k into their coffers to make sure they do everything they can to mess up the election process in the key swing states.

  62. horatiox says:

    Are you sufficiently acquainted with the facts of Gore/FL2000 to claim it wasn’t fraud? The WSJ, hardly a wild-eyed leftist rag, concluded that the evidence did suggest tampering/fraud. Given GOP controlled judiciary, Jeb Bush as Gov. etc., FL redneck precincts, I suspect it was rigged. But I grant the left does it as well, and ACORN may be a sort of backlash (though GOP does bogus registrations ala ACORN as well).

  63. glenn says:

    ACORN has been indicted and been convicted of voter fraud over and over again throughout many states for over 10 years now.

    This is not any backlash…maybe Florida was the backlash to all the damage ACORN did leading up to that election.

    For anyone to compare the two just doesn’t get it.

    We cannot allow any voter fraud PERIOD. There is no one out there willing to defend ACORN – everyone agrees it is a massive debacle…yet…

    Dodd and Frank wanted to reward them for their illegal actives with 750,000,000 in pork money from this bail-out and Obama has $800k this year on them.

    Any company or person in this country that ever even tried to get away with a fraction of this would be in jail for a long time yet the Democratic party continues to fund a known entity which violates the law and continues to protect it…doesn’t that sound like another recent debacle: Freddie and Fannie…SHOCKER.

    Keep in mind the level of fraud that is happening in this election – Detroit (city alone) estimates that over 200,000 registrations are fraudulent – that should turn everyone’s stomach.

    If the Republicans or anyone else was doing this I would say the exact same thing.

    It should bother people that ACORN tries to discount the importance of your vote – probably the single most important thing you can do in this country and have the right to do.

  64. glenn says:

    Be prepared when you read the following link you might want to have a bucket next to your desk.

    Internal Democracy Alliance Memo outline their approach to “Educate the Idiots” and target minorities. This is one of the most disgusting things I have ever even seen.

    http://facethestate.com/articles/democracy-alliance-memo-details-dem-plan-educate-idiots-and-target-minorities

    Joe you might want to start a thread on voter-fraud, etc…this topic is about to get really really hot. Explosive report coming shortly that links another Democratic group giving our crack cocaine for votes in Alabama…wow…is this America?

  65. horatiox says:

    “Explosive report coming shortly that links another Democratic group giving our crack cocaine for votes in Alabama”

    That is soo wrong, Glennster. That’s the Peoples’ Crack! We paid for it.

  66. Paul says:

    The amount of hyperbole, exaggeration, half-truths, stretched truths and outright lies that get flung BOTH ways in the weeks preceding a presidential election never fails to amaze me. The majority of the time when I find some truly objective voice, both sides blather gets riddled with more holes than Swiss cheese. This is why I so embrace my stance that if BOTH parties find something wanting in a piece of legislation, it is probably good for the country. If the Dems embrace it too fervently, or the Reps embrace it too fervently, I usually detect the rank smell and influence of lobbyists and very generous campaign contributions.

  67. glenn says:

    I love how people like Professor Sherrilyn Ifill the cousin of the moderator tonight writes:

    The Community Times, a suburban Maryland newspaper, found Professor Ifill was ardently opposed to the Alaska governor when they did an e-mail interview:

    “From the first day, Palin presented herself as shooting a bear in the morning, field dressing it, cooking up the breakfast, diapering the babies, passing legislation in the afternoon, cleaning the house, satisfying her husband, etc., etc., etc. And it’s just not true,” she wrote in an e-mail interview. “It’s hard to be an average working mom, really hard. And when women who are privileged present as though they have it all together, it’s offensive to black women.”

    This is just insane. How could anyone find it offensive because she busts her ass to get where she is in her life? Let’s stop lowering the bar and playing victim because something is hard. Even John F. Kennedy would roll in his grave with comments like this.

  68. horatiox says:

    McMaverick’s choice of Palin for VP may have been imprudent, even from a conservative tactical standpoint. She might appeal to westerners: east coast beltway types obviously don’t care for her (tho’ the media and Satire, Inc. ala SNL should never be mistaken for objective journalism).

    She’s impressive in ways (has a certain libertarian aspect), has some spine and at least not an insider, but was usual flying-by-the seat-of-the- pants style politics ala McCain/GOP.The choice of Palin may have alienated some independent/swing voters as well, who were hoping for a moderate VP (even Lieberdem).

    A real issue however which the hyper-emotional Demopublicans have overlooked concerns Obama’s own political credentials. His college transcripts were sealed, as were his graduate test scores (like an LSAT). Columbia has prevented journalists from examining his undergraduate record/GPAs, etc. That might not seem so important, but all the recent candidates had their lousy grades exposed, and so forth. Obama appears more like an statist-leftist insider which each day.

    Another interesting factoid came out a few months ago, which ObamaCo has denied: did St. Barack, like, engage in some same-sex swinging? Say it ain’t so:

    http://larrysinclairbarackobama.com/

    This is in the courts, and while maybe the work of some underhanded conservatives, at least worth a perusal.

  69. glenn says:

    Horatiox…wow…lol…I thought crack for votes was explosive…did you hear the latest that ACORN is picking up homeless in IL and driving to OH to vote?

    Big problem in Alabama…absentee ballots are on the honor system…ROFL…unbelievable.

  70. horatiox says:

    The reluctance of ObamaCo to cough up Barry Obama’s undergraduate records/standardized test scores has been noted by quite a few:

    http://www.reason.com/blog/show/128633.html#comments

    Vegas libertarians might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but at least Root has some awareness of Due Process (and verification relates to Due Process).

    There’s even some debate over whether BO’s an American citizen. (google Phillip Berg, a fairly high-powered attorney who’s filed in Fed courts to block Obama’s nomination/candidacy on grounds that he’s not an American citizen, and thus prevented from running for Prez).

  71. glenn says:

    When he says Pakistan and Taliban…it makes me wonder what country he is from? 😛

  72. glenn says:

    PBS’s Gwen Ifill: No
    Moderate Moderator

    ■ Don’t Bash Coke Dealers. “Why are people particularly outraged when people with last names like Cabrera, and people from India and Korea, and Indonesia and China, all of a sudden get, there just seems to be a lot of foreigner bashing as a subtext in some of the criticism.” — Then-NBC reporter Ifill on PBS’s Washington Week in Review, October 25, 1996, dismissing the Clinton campaign-money scandal, including DNC donor and cocaine smuggler Jorge Cabrera, arrested in a bust netting nearly three tons of cocaine. He had photos taken with Hillary and Al Gore.

    ■ Clinton’s Not Liberal Enough. “Is this welfare bill your great vulnerability on this subject? Your supporters, your critics, they all say that, perhaps, you are abandoning minorities and the poor.” — Ifill interviewing President Clinton on race relations, June 16, 1997 Today.

    Gwen’s Partisan Take on Team Bush ■ Campaign “Reform” Opponents Like Terrorists. “It was a bill that was doomed to die. The last time you heard people so eager to claim responsiblity for something like this, they were terrorists.” — Ifill on opponents of a campaign “reform” bill, Washington Week, Feb. 27, 1998.

    ■ Republican Assassins. “In the end it was a procedural assassination. Republicans drove up the cost of the bill by attaching unrelated amendments, then said it was too expensive.” — Ifill on Today, June 18, 1998.

    ■ Ken Starr’s “Truck Bomb.” “There’s very little they can do about this, when someone drives, as one House Judiciary Committee member put this some weeks ago, a truck bomb up to the steps of the Capitol and just dumps it on them….it is in some ways, politically, a very violent action for Ken Starr to leave this on them weeks before an election when they’re trying to decide how to deal with it.” — Ifill during live MSNBC coverage of the Starr Report arriving on Capitol Hill, September 9, 1998.

    ■ Red-Baiting Century. “After World War II, then we went through decades of Red-hunting, Red-baiting, fear of communists, and then all of a sudden the Berlin Wall, that symbol of everything that happened, fell.” — PBS host Ifill reviewing the century on Washington Week, December 31, 1999.

    ■ “Record High” Misery? “The unemployment rate is at record highs, and somehow he [Bush] says this is Congress’s fault.” — PBS host Ifill somehow forgetting the Great Depression in describing 6.1 percent unemployment, Washington Week, May 2, 2003.

  73. Paul says:

    Face it, the Republicans will be crying “foul” until they get Sean Hannity or Bill “Fair & Balanced” O’Reilly to moderate. I can make Dick Cheney and GWB look like utter fools taking quotes out of context, but who has the time? Ifill will probably do just fine and they’ll still call foul.
    I suppose Couric “ambushed” Palin with all those unfair and hopelessly biased questions about issues she should know something about (but clearly does not) ??? Palin will be so well coached tonight she’ll do fine too, but the cat’s out of the bag – anybody who has spent any time reviewing & listening to the interviews she has given over the last 2 weeks should be terrified with the prospect of her being a heartbeat away from the Presidency. Quayle looked like a rocket scientist by comparison.

  74. glenn says:

    Paul no one is looking at Palin’s accomplishments and for good reason. Her executive experience is far greater than both Obama and Biden combined.

    If the media actually looked at her accomplishments there would not be any of the discussion.

    Anyone that can honestly say that the mainstream is not supporting Obama over McCain is a deaf and blind.

    My point on Gwen is two fold:

    1) She did not disclose her upcoming book to the debate organization – she admits this
    2) She stands to make hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions – she will make $3-$4 a copy on book sales. She has a vested and financial interest in Obama winning.

    She wants to be viewed as a person of authority because of this moderation and wants to promote her book.

    Personally I think this is a major win for Palin because anything out of bounds will be called on.

    My outrage is that a person who supposed to be a ethical journalist would allow their judgement to lapse for financial benefit – that speaks volumes about her character.

    How much do you want to bet that the camera angles on her show her wheel chair predominately during any gotcha moments?

    Then add her loony Professor cousin stating Palin is offensive to black women…come on…

    How come Obamamites always play the race card and they are the ones that act like racists?

    I can imagine what would be happening if a white woman wrote a book about Great White American Women and spoke fondly of Palin and was moderating this debate…ROFL.

  75. glenn says:

    I think Palin should show up with her new baby in a front sling tonight for the debate…lol…that would cause a stir!

  76. horatiox says:

    The media context perhaps as interesting as the actual debate: which is to say, many out in Consumerland probably find Ms CBS aka Katie Korkit and her investigative reporter schtick far more nauseating than Ms. Palin herself. 😉

    College town snobs might not approve of Ms Palin, but that’s not all of America, thankfully. Better straight-shooting conservative-libertarians than weaselly conservative-Democrats (that said, some of us won’t be voting for either).

    While Palin may be a bit underprepared and not exactly WF Buckley, she seems fairly honest and forthright: more than one might say about an insider like Biden, or his mysterious boss, BO.

  77. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn C’mon dude… 1996 Ifill quotes?

    I’m amazed that’s all there wasy…for me none of those examples show big problems even as written, which takes them out of the broad context. Did whoever found these look for Ifill commenting on conservatives favorably or criticizing liberals? I’m almost certain they did not, which is a requirement, not an option, if you want to determine bias.

    Although I agree Ifill should have disclosed book details more fully, I see no reason to think she’ll be biased in the questions or moderation.

  78. Paul says:

    Palin’s poor showing the last several weeks scares more than just me, plenty of conservatives have become alarmed. Kathleen Parker and the National Review are not what one would call bastions of liberal ideology, nonetheless:

    “Palin’s recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.

    No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I’ve been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I’ve also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.

    Palin filibusters. She repeats words, filling space with deadwood. Cut the verbiage and there’s not much content there. Here’s but one example of many from her interview with Hannity: “Well, there is a danger in allowing some obsessive partisanship to get into the issue that we’re talking about today. And that’s something that John McCain, too, his track record, proving that he can work both sides of the aisle, he can surpass the partisanship that must be surpassed to deal with an issue like this.”

    When Couric pointed to polls showing that the financial crisis had boosted Obama’s numbers, Palin blustered wordily: “I’m not looking at poll numbers. What I think Americans at the end of the day are going to be able to go back and look at track records and see who’s more apt to be talking about solutions and wishing for and hoping for solutions for some opportunity to change, and who’s actually done it?”

    If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself.”

    -Kathleen Parker, National Review, September 26th

  79. glenn says:

    Joe,

    There are actually lots of quotes…however for someone to say she is completely unbiased to be a moderator is a stretch especially since she has a book that basically endorses Obama and is coming out on inauguration day. I mean this is pretty brazen to try to pull something like this.

    I think all these left wing attempts to compromise elements of the election in the end only help McCain/Palin.

    Like I said this is something Gwen should have recused herself from if she truly was honest and wanted to give a true unbiased view to this debate.

  80. glenn says:

    Paul do you actually think someone could have taken on a corrupt politician and take down the big oil companies is she were total BS.

    Sarah Palin represents the greatest threat to the far left since Ronald Reagan. You can say what you want but she has set records for attendance to her rallies with McCain…before she arrived only the Obamasiah was capable of such a feat.

    I mean how could a white woman who has a family, dedicated husband, with lots of kids including a special needs child and by the be pregnant while doing all of this rise from a town council member to mayor to governor and really make things happen…from the far left this is something impossible.

    I think the country will be in a big surprise tonight…but I bet any gaff Biden commits he will get a pass.

  81. horatiox says:

    Do folks out in Bend really care about Kathleen Parker’s views, or even Katie Korkit? I don’t think so. Ms Palin’s not some Ivy League socialite (nor was say Reagan): that’s probably one reason McCain selected her.

    Americans should be concerned about the media double-standard (and manipulation). The blogocrats can’t stand an O’Reilly, Hannity or FOx, but are ok with CBS, MS-NBC, ABC, CNN etc. Why is that? O’Reilly’s a bit cocky, but hardly marching with the fundamentalists or rightists.

    It’s akin to a “herd mind”: big name leftists diss Fox and O-Reilly for months (as the Kos lemmings have) and voila, he’s wearing a Hitler moustache. O’Reilly says he’s a moderate anyway, and thankfully not a protestant biblethumper (–as is, say Barack Obama, at least ostensibly).

    CBS has far more power than a Fox. Couric’s probably making triple what the Foxnews rogues are; what’s more CBS is NOT even liberal. CBS and the other networks have tended to back Bush and IWE, probably as much as Fox has. CBS–that’s Viacom Inc, and dare we say old zionist capital at work.

  82. glenn says:

    BTW Paul…there is only one reason to hide things and that is because they are filled with BS – take Obama’s college records. He didn’t even pass the muster to be admitted to Harvard Law – someone had to get him in. You want to talk about BS – what exactly has Obama done?

    If he has his way he will be responsible for a full civil war in Pakistan…heck he might even cause one here…lol.

    No one can say that Palin has not done a tremendous job with her life. You don’t become Governor with just dumb luck.

    Remember Bill Clinton was the Governor of a very small state and certainly did not have the strategic important of Alaska. But he did insure all the highways bridges for fire and theft – oh yeah…his brother-in-law was the insurance agent for hat.

    BTW I like President Clinton and in fact since he has left office I think he continually gets more impressive I just can’t stand when people want to apply a different standard today than they did in 1990 because of party affiliation.

    I think the two party system needs to be abolished.

  83. JoeDuck says:

    I think Palin should show up with her new baby in a front sling tonight for the debate

    Laughed out loud at that one….

    Picturing the next Saturday night live skit where Palin passes a full-diapered baby off to Biden to hold for a minute while she puts on her lipstick.

    We’re having a JoeBidaSaPalin Pizza Party tonight to watch.

    I predict this will be the most watched event of the entire two year election.

    Glenn I don’t understand your defense of Palin. It seems to me you could make a case she’s right for the country because she is not a party insider, is not worldly or intellectual about things, etc, etc. But it is a very weak case to say she’s highly experienced, worldly, and as well-informed as the other guys. She’s a bright, competent, friendly person – but I think that pretty much sums it up and for many that is simply not enough.

  84. JoeDuck says:

    Hey, why don’t the tech posts get hundreds of comments? I’m writing in the wrong blogOsphere…

  85. glenn says:

    LOL…wrong blogOsphere…

    My point on Palin is no one is looking at the obvious. How did she get to be Governor?

    Everyone is polarized that she doesn’t personally believe in abortion even though her record clearly shows she has never forced her personal beliefs on anyone.

    Roe-v-Wade…she would like to see that over-turned for one reason…because the states should decide that issue. She isn’t out to ban abortions…she just doesn’t think it rises to the level of a federal law – since we are a Republic – I completely agree. In fact I think more should be pushed down to the state level.

    I don’t know if Palin is good for the Republic party although I think she is great because she has gotten so many more people involved in this years election and she is the type of person you could see living next to you and you could have a beer with Todd and talk about real stuff as compared to an elitest like Obama and/or Biden.

    What is really great about Palin is the fact that she got involved because she finally got pissed off at all the BS in Alaska politics? No one questioned Obama metoric rise but someone Palin has to be full of BS and and idiot to be here.

    Palin didn’t take any short-cuts either…everything she has achieved she earned with sweat. I don’t think anyone can say that about Obama.

    The media wants to scare everyone with McCain’s health – his health is amazing and look at what he has endured the man is a superhero.

    Biden has very serious health issues, he has had two aneurysms and the next one is almost certain to be fatal – so either way Pelosi steps into either the VP or Presidents job – if that isn’t scary for everyone on this planet I do not know what is?

    I also think the VP really doesn’t do that much however I do think she will be able to help McCain really change things and in the right way…not through expanded government with entitlements we cannot afford but with throwing out the corrupt politicians regardless of party and I think McCain represents a new way – a way that paves the future without the two party system.

  86. Paul says:

    (85) – I’ve largely stayed away from Blogs-ville since the Kim tragedy and rarely post anywhere but here, now all this politics and, even more fascinating, Steve Fossett, have me sucked back in. I think I need get back to refraining for a while.

    But I digress…controversy and the unknown make for active blogging. Q. What common thread runs through the 1. election 2. Steve Fossett’s disappearance and 3. the missing Kim’s ?
    A. – we did not (Kim,Fossett) / (election) do not – know the outcome. I think questions without answers are more compelling and interesting to consider.

  87. Paul says:

    (85) – but I’m empathetic your tech posts don’t garner more traffic 🙂

    Maybe if they were more controversial…Apple versus PC, Microsoft vs Unix – then you’d get the firebrands heated up more.

  88. glenn says:

    The funny thing Paul…if everyone from Joe Duck actually sat in a room together I am confident we would all be friends and find we have a lot more in common than not even Charlie Wilson…lol.

    The internet is a funny thing but when reasonable people get together reasonable things happen.

  89. glenn says:

    (88)…Joe maybe you need to link the oppression of technology to ACORN or something…that would get things going.

  90. JoeDuck says:

    Paul – very interesting idea about the appeal of the unknown.

    Glenn – I think it would be fun to all get together. How about *tonight* at my house? We’ll put Palin Biden on the big screen, but I think I’m going to require you are strapped in with a secure…. seatbelt 😮

  91. glenn says:

    ROFL…Actually I am not one of rabid fan types…

    I would crack wise as much on each…

    I am intense with my work but pretty laid back with everything else. One thing missing from the Internet is our chuckles, etc while we type on here.

    I think the more discussion the better.

    I have to admit Horatiox gets the award for shocking the hell out of me…I had no idea about that Larry Sinclair angle going on…not that I put a lot of credence on it but I find it interesting that I haven’t run across it.

  92. Paul says:

    (89)(91) – Would be fun to gather for a Rogue float some summer, dine with Rogue River Rat at Galice Resort, do the Hells Gate section.
    Joe – Talent is just too far…I drive that far, I’d probably want to go float the Rogue. Besides, I’d miss the special on Oregon Field Guide at 8 while driving back. Will need some OFG to decompress after the debate.

  93. glenn says:

    Paul just so you know I have done Class 6 rapids with just a pair of swimmies so if you plan to throw me over just understand what is in store! 😛

  94. glenn says:

    OMG they showed Palin getting off the plane carrying her baby…

    I can see it now…the media…there is now way she can carry her baby and walk at the same time and how did she have so many kids and her arse isn’t huge?

    LOL…what a year!

  95. Paul says:

    (94) I make it a policy to never let politics or religion intrude/taint the serene beauty of a river float. I’m a non-affiliated agnostic on the Rogue, unless I see someone littering or being careless with fire.

  96. glenn says:

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3129030&referralPlaylistId=playlist

    Classic Bill O’Reilly – reminds me of the old days when he would attack people…LOL.

    With all the drama aside something key comes out of this…

    Barney Frank mis-represents the truth. That clip clearly shows that Barney Frank in July that Freddie and Fannie was going to be ok moving forward – what a joke! If a bank president said this…he would be investigated by the FBI.

    Frank said he started in Jan 2007 as the starting point he could influence Freddie and Fanny and in less than two years Freddie and Fannie lost over 90% in value – he would be fired PERIOD.

  97. glenn says:

    Debate tonight.

    Palin did what she had to do. I think she did very well and it will hopefully put to bed the issues with her and the press.

    I also hope people take the time to really review her record in Alaska…I think you will also be quite surprised.

    Now some specific thoughts.

    One major contrast. Biden and Obama are both Attorneys, Palin and McCain are not. I think Washington has too many attorneys as it is and I don’t think attorneys belong in an executive position. You will find in most successful corporations that the top executives are not attorneys but they have good attorneys advising them.

    Additionally Biden had to continually defend what he has done and said previously. This was evident on a wide range of issues, he also had the job of defending Obama on issues that he clearly in the past has disagreed with. I think when the pundits (if honest) do the analysis they will see a large number of inaccuracies presented by Biden.

    On the other hand I don’t Palin was off track on anything. Remember you need to go back to the beginning of the primaries with Obama and Biden when they were competing and look at everything – it is startling how many times Obama and as of tonight Biden has changed on important issues.

    Also given the current economic situation NONE of Obama’s spending plans or tax increases can occur – he has a serious problem in this regard making good on his campaign promises. On the other hand I don’t see a lot of changes to the things McCain has said he is going to do.

    After the performances this past two weeks of Pelosi and her do-nothing congress I think it is clear America is fed up the politics and I think America for the first time tonight could actually believe in McCain/Palin to change the current status quo.

    From a polling perspective I think you will see a major shift in independents to McCain/Palin and I also think MSM lost BIG time tonight – their credibility has to be approaching zero.

    I give both credit tonight for being very gracious with each other and I was particularly touched when Biden talked about his family and the loss of his wife and two kids.

    One last point…the most important thing said that will ultimately be analyzed as the KEY sound byte in this entire election.

    Joe Biden said he would share the role of governance with Obama which he clearly stated that Obama would involve Biden in the Presidential decisions. THIS WAS A HUGE FOO PAH and will come back to haunt them. NO REAL PRESIDENT would ever publicly admit this and it just proves one of two things:

    a) Obama doesn’t think he is ready to be President
    or
    b) Biden just confirmed his primary comment that Obama is not ready to be Commander in Chief – either way this is not good for their ticket.

  98. glenn says:

    Prediction on house vote:

    Given the performance of Palin tonight they Democrats will vote down the bill tomorrow and try to blame McCain.

    One additional note…at the end I thought Palin should have brought up a copy of Gwen’s book to her and asked her to sign it…

    😛

  99. glenn says:

    Initial review of my Tivo and the debate…

    I have 10 solid things that Joe Biden was WRONG on.

    I have 5 items that we could debate if we was WRONG on.

  100. horatiox says:

    One major contrast. Biden and Obama are both Attorneys, Palin and McCain are not. I think Washington has too many attorneys as it is and I don’t think attorneys belong in an executive position.

    Yass. She held up pretty well, tho’ the blogocrats probably didn’t care for it. Palin and McCain might be a bit rustic for the college-town snobs; Biden, on the other hand, plays the part of the Great Liberal Communicator. Glib, smooth, well-oiled, BidenSpeak outdoes even Billy Clinton’s preacher-who-you-can-trust schtick. Actually, I respected him a bit until he signed on with the BO-train.

  101. glenn says:

    10 Major Errors in Biden’s Comments

    1) Biden said McCain voted with Obama on raising taxes in the budget resolution.
    FALSE – 3/14 and 6/4 votes on the budget resolutions which increased taxes on families making $42k a year – McCain Voted NO, Obama Voted YES Go check the record.

    Since Obama has been in office he has had 94 opportunities to vote against tax increases. In all 94 opportunities Obama has voted to increase taxes on American families.

    2) Biden said they would not increase the tax rate higher than what existed with Ronald Reagan. During the GREAT Reagan years the max tax rate was 28%, Obama has said they would raise the tax rate to 39.5% the same as during Clinton. – Go check the facts.

    3) Biden said it would take 10 years to results from oil drilling here. WRONG – some of the drilling could produce results within 1 year.

    Additionally the old estimates of oil deposits in Gulf we are about 6 billion barrels well our updated technology we have found that there are approximately 50 billions of oil available in the Gulf.

    Similar levels of oil are available in the Pacific, etc. The fact is we have enough oil that we can tap into to 100% eliminate our need on foreign oil.
    DRILL BABY DRILL

    4) Biden stated we didn’t have a war resolution to go into Iraq – FALSE – it was most certainly a war resolution.

    5) Biden stated McCain voted against funding our troops – INSANE – check the final vote – McCain absolutely funded our troops at every opportunity. Obama voted NO in the final vote and Biden scolded Obama publicly for it and stated it his vote of no would end up costing troops their lives. The fact that someone thinks it is wise to set a timetable on when you will finish a war by looking a calendar is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

    What happens if you are losing at the end of the timetable? Do you come home defeated? This country cannot afford a leader that would accept defeat. Even Joe Biden knows that.

    6) 3 weeks in Iraq cost wise = total we have spent in Afghanistan – absolutely incorrect.

    7) Biden stated article 1 of the constitution referred to the Executive branch…WRONG…it refers to the Legislative branch.

    8) Biden stated there is a windfall profits tax in Alaska…NOT TRUE. There is NO windfall profits tax in Alaska.

    9) Biden stated Obama passed a nuclear weapons bill…ah hello…show me please…I can’t find it?

    10) Biden stated McCain opposed President Clinton in regard to Bosnia – absolutely NOT TRUE.

    One note…the left will say we are not down to pre-surge levels in Iraq as Palin stated – FACT we are within 3000 troops of pre-surge levels…I say close enough.

    I think Obama should debate Biden or we should all go back and watch the debates during the primary.

  102. glenn says:

    Nice how Gwen Ifill told Biden how great a job he did – TWICE.

    Opps…she must not have realized the mics were still on.

  103. glenn says:

    FBI raids Obama friend’s home…

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/03/fbi-raids-obama-friends-home/print/

    ROFL…

    How many of Obama’s friends, etc have to go down or be discredited before we wake up?

  104. glenn says:

    Gwen Ifill I think missed several opportunities to force both candidates to answer the questions.

    It is unfortunate that she let her personal financial gain overshadow what should have been a much stronger moderator performance.

  105. horatiox says:

    The Berg/Obama case has heated up a bit:

    http://www.obamacrimes.com/

    Barry Obama was probably NOT born on US soil (not even Hawaii, as he claimed), but Kenya–he father was a Kenyan. He may be a brilliant orator and even qualified for the position, but the Constitution requires President to be a US citizen, born on US soil (not naturalized–same thing kept Ahhhnuld out of Prez race).

    The Media has kept this out of news of course (just like they have kept BO’s mystery transcripts/college records out of the news). That said, the DNC wields so much power they will like, in old school-Kennedy fashion, probably just pull some strings and Berg’s case (if not Berg himself) will disappear.

  106. glenn says:

    Tyler Perry big Obama supporter accused of Union Busting – major embarrassment for Obama campaign.

    http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/tyler-perrys-accused-role-as-union-buster-becomes-big-obama-embarrassment/

    Gee let’s put this under the following:
    These liberal policies are great for everyone else but don’t let me be forced to abide by them.

    The growing left hypocrisy

  107. Paul says:

    The Porkage has passed the house.

  108. glenn says:

    so now we go and borrow the money from the asian market to fund the biggest boondongle in the history of our country…

    aye yi yi…

  109. glenn says:

    If this doesn’t prove we need term limits…i have no idea what could…

    America has been fleeced…

  110. glenn says:

    I find it interesting how everyone said the first debate was more or less a tie but a tie goes to Obama.

    Then they said the Palin debate would be a train wreck, etc and it wasn’t but they want to spin the Biden kicked her butt.

    Biden made so many factual errors its scary and think about how he pointed his finger at America and said we would NOT see ONE DROP of oil from our drilling for 10 years – NOT ONE DROP.

    That is a complete lie and he knows it – this just proves that Obama and Biden are not serious about solving our dependence on foreign oil. We can see results from the new drilling starting in 1 year and at most 3 years.

  111. glenn says:

    This one is funny…

    In the middle it shows more of the clip about his clean coal statement…he actually yells at the young woman, screams clean coal will destroy her lungs and then wags his finger at her and say NO CLEAN COAL IN AMERICA.

    Yet another fine example they are not ready to make the tough decisions to move rapidly to eliminate our need on foreign oil. – Our biggest national security threat.

  112. glenn says:

    This is from SwiftKids for Truth…

    http://www.236.com/video/2008/swiftkids_for_truth_maverick_1_9295.php

    At least this one is funny and not creepy like the Obama kids singing one…

  113. glenn says:

    Now this is creepy…

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/10/02/obama-youth-junior-fraternity-regiment

    Don’t videos like this scare the heck out of you. This looks some communist propaganda video…OMG…

  114. glenn says:

    WOW…this is an interesting watch…

    Part 1

    Part 2

    Interesting videos of Hillary…

  115. horatiox says:

    The blogocrats have consistently overlooked ObamaCo’s coal connection: probably some union connection there as well (and he’s connected to the automotive industry, big time).

    That said, Biden was not completely mistaken in jacking the GOP/McCain on their lack of energy plans and poor environmental record (or the hawkishness–tho’ he voted for the IWE, and set the hypocrisy-meter off with his few anti-war rants).

    Maybe, like BO will be removed somehow–green carded–and Prez Biden takes command–tho’ has a few issues, he’s a well-spoken irish moderate.

  116. glenn says:

    The Associated Press reported today that Sarah and Todd Palin have released their 2006 and 2007 tax returns. The release concluded:

    The McCain-Palin campaign had said the tax returns would be released Monday, but it suddenly put them out Friday afternoon — a time long used by government to reveal embarrassing news because few people watch TV or read newspapers Friday evening and Saturday.

    Interestingly, Joe and Jill Biden also released tax returns on a Friday. In their case it was September 12. The AP began its report:

    Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden and his wife on Friday released a decade of their personal financial records, showing a veteran U.S. senator who earned less than many of his congressional colleagues.

    Oddly, no mention was made that Friday is “a time long used by government to reveal embarrassing news.”

    FROM newsbusters.org
    http://www.newsbusters.org/

  117. JoeDuck says:

    Horatiox and Glenn the claim that Obama is not a citizen appears *totally* bogus. Are you seriously saying you think this is even remotely likely?

    It’s one of those cases where they ask for Birth Certificate, he refuses, they say “see, you are not a citizen! He provides it, they say “hey, it looks funny”, etc, etc.

    Here’s an image of the certificate from an Obama website:
    http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

  118. glenn says:

    I assumed he was a citizen…i wouldn’t think they would allow non-citizen to run…or Arnold I’ll be back would be running for President.

  119. horatiox says:

    Obama himself admits to having dual citizenship (Kenya, US) as a kid. I didn’t say he’s not an American, and the Hawaii cert. looks ok (though it’s not the official “vault” copy). Regardless, Berg’s supposedly some high-powered attorney, and it’s unlikely he would have filed if it was completely bogus.

    I’m not down with Rush-style smear-campaigns either–tho’ the leftists are smearing Ms Palin 24/7, aren’t they. At the same time, quite a few blogs (not all rightist) have posted info. on the difficulties of fact-checking various aspects of BO’s background (including his college records).

  120. glenn says:

    Obama and the Democrats spell out our future:

    Surrender – Socialism – Sub-Prime

    Things sure do look rosy don’t they!

  121. glenn says:

    Sunday night on Fox News at 9pm eastern on Hannity’s America, Sean Hannity will spend 1 hours looking into Obama’s relationships and his ties to organizations like ACORN.

    I know a lot of you think Fox News is the Republican channel however this information is absolutely critical and we all must push for the truth and get answers to these very serious questions about Obama’s past.

  122. Paul says:

    If ANY other channel besides Fox covers it, I will pay attention, but like GWB they have lost all credibility with me. Their slanted coverage is SO overtly slanted (they were such huge proponents of the war), I just don’t pay attention to them anymore.
    Jim Lehrer picks it up, I’m all ears.

  123. glenn says:

    Remember on Nov 3rd the day before election most of us will receive our 401k statements. Any losses we are all going to incur on our 401k’s are a direct result of the corruption within Fannie and Freddie.

    Follow the money trail with Fannie and Freddie, look who is in power to legislate them and what they have done, look who is in power over at Fannie and Freddie and who they are connected to. Look at who has made millions and millions of dollars through corruption at Fannie and Freddie and look who they are connected to now and their past.

    The answer is clear as day who is primarily responsible for largest economic meltdown in the history of the world.

  124. Paul says:

    (124) I will post later my rebuttal to this. I still maintain there is ample bi-partisan blame and that some factors – such as Greenspan keeping rates at 1% for too long, and American’s general willingness to buy into the myth that real estate valuations can outstrip incomes with no negative fall-out down the road, that have no political slant either way.
    Like most financial crises this country has experienced, the sources of this one are multiple, not single. Both parties want a smoking gun – singular – and there simply isn’t one, I count no less than 6 or 8.

  125. glenn says:

    Paul the vast majority of experts in this country clearly lay the primary blame on Freddie and Fannie.

    You have to look at the cause and effect here. There is one statement that is irrefutable:

    If Freddie and Fannie did not create the housing bubble this economic crisis would have never happened. The scale of this debacle is biblical in scale.

    You can blame a million other factors but none of those factors if they did not happen would not have stopped the corrupt practices of Freddie and Fannie which were fully endorsed and supported by people like Barney Frank.

    It amazes me that people want to give the liberal left a pass – it wouldn’t matter to me…corruption has only two colors involved – green and red – green for what is lining these scumbags pockets and red for what is happening to the honest people in this country.

    Pretty much everyone agrees that if Freddie and Fannie didn’t do what they did…this meltdown would not have occurred. I don’t even blame CRA as much as I do the practices within Freddie and Fannie.

    There were both democrats and republicans that called for more oversight and review of Freddie and Fannie and Barney Frank and Chris Dodd led the charge to stomp any of that out – ironic how they didn’t want oversight there but now they want oversight everywhere else!!!

  126. glenn says:

    Paul – you will find I will not play any party line here. I will not give Democrats nor Republicans a pass when they do this kind of damage.

    I rip into Bush just as much.

    And I never buy the argument…well there is plenty of blame to go around so lets all just sweep it under the rug.

    I say expose all of it…Freddie and Fannie is low hanging fruit and quite frankly if you follow the money trail throughout Freddie and Fannie I think you will expose a lot of people in both parties and on Wall-Street that played in the game.

    Let’s make all these people famous both in Congress and on Wall-Street that took advantage and unfairly put our economy in the tank.

    This could lead to war on a global scale – we cannot let any of these people get away with it.

  127. glenn says:

    ROFL…Biden

    Joe Biden said this: “All you have to do is to go down Union Street with me in Wilmington and go to Katie’s restaurant…”

    Well the restaurant was two blocks away from Union Street and was closed almost 20 years ago…

    http://www.delawareonline.com/blogs/2008/10/ill-meet-you-anytime-you-want-in-our.html

  128. Paul says:

    We must be reading different sources (“vast majority of experts”), and I never said sweep it under the rug. I think close scrutiny of the causes is important & critical to insuring we don’t have repeat down the road.

    I just take exception to the attempts, by both parties, to blame it solely on the other party and to single out a single “smoking gun”. It’s just partisan blame-mongering, it’s not reality.

  129. glenn says:

    Paul I think there are a lot of smoking guns. But you have to admit Freddie and Fannie plays a huge role in this situation and what Freddie and Fannie rises to the level of corruption, greed and irresponsibility that dwarfs anything else that our great country has ever seen.

    Let’s start there and follow through on all of it.

  130. glenn says:

    Horatiox – I have been doing some research about Obama’s citizenship and Berg and his lawsuit. I think this stuff is pretty wild. I haven’t read worldnetdaily before Berg makes some interesting points.

    http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76933

    Does anyone know how they validate or certify a birth certificate anyway?

  131. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn! Are you looking at any nonpartisan sources for your information about these claims? Sean Hannity is completely outside the pale in my view – he’s not doing much journalism these days. I’ll defend a handful of the FOX folks as nonpartisan, but Hannity stuff is strategic attack dog yellow journalism, full of delibarate smear tactics.

    Hannity sees his job as getting McCain elected and acts accordingly. Sure, some of what he says/uncovers/etc is true, but a balanced view requires you look for truth, not dirt. Hannity is simply painting Obama as something Hannity *knows* Obama is not. It’s a lot like Olberman or Rachel Maddow on MSNBC who also “report” only the “news” that supports their highly partisan views. Most of the Hannity stuff is not even news – it’s just junk opinion.

    It is reasonable to challenge people on how they might govern, but the character assassination stuff just diminishes everybody in the equation and leads folks to the conclusion that “their guy” is virtuous and “the other guy” is corrupt when most of the problems are with the system and how it forces unwise spending and voting patterns. This is why the candidates themselves geneally have a lot of respect for each other. These guys are respectable individuals in a our challenged two-party political system that needs a third party founded on early principles of entrepreneurial spirit, freedom, democracy, small govt, low spending.

  132. JoeDuck says:

    leftists are smearing Ms Palin 24/7, aren’t they

    Yes they are, and much is as shameful or worse than the smears against Obama.

    Horatiox I think Berg’s anti-Obama stuff is Republican strategic more than it is sincere, though I’d guess he’s convinced himself he’s on to something real.

    Glenn I do agree that Dems appear to have somewhat more responsibility for the mortgage crisis than the Republicans because they were the biggest advocates for high risk loans and did most of the defending of Fannie and Freddie when we should have been cracking down on what we now know were bad lending policies and some illegal reporting. Barnie Frank should resign – he failed miserably to identify the looming crisis and has too cozy a history defending factors that brought us here.

    But you are very conveniently overlooking that Republicans have controlled congress and White House while the crisis was building and miserably failed to warn us *enough*. We can quibble over how loudly McCain was talking when he “warned” of a mortgage crisis (try to find the records – they are pretty lightweight).

    Verdict – the political spending system is severely broken. 43 Trillion in unfunded US liabilities for our kids to pay. We need a new and powerful independent party based on small Govt and clever thinking.

  133. glenn says:

    (134) Joe you and I fully agree with your verdict. My problem with Obama is he will take us far far away from small government.

    If the media did a reasonable job reporting on all the things Obama and the DNC are hiding about Obama we could get a fair shake on all of this. They are controlling the message to not make sure everyone gets it right…they are controlling the message so NO one gets it right.

    I believe these past and ongoing relationships with Obama pose some very serious questions. You look at the NYT’s piece on Ayers today…and it is like: are you kidding me?

    I ask America a simple question:
    1) Do you know any known terrorists?
    2) Would you have anything to do with them?

    Immediately after 9/11 Ayers said he didn’t think his terrorist organizations did enough to disrupt this country.

    I see the recurring theme with the far left and Obama…doesn’t matter who we connect with, who helps us, how we do it even when it breaks the law…we just need to do everything to get elected.

    Obama will not release his college records
    Obama will not release his campaign finance records
    Obama spent $800k with ACORN this year so far – can anybody explain how it is possible for a politician in this day and age of news can get away with this?

    ACORN is a disgrace to everything America stands for. But again let’s overlook their track record and heinous activities as long as it gets us elected…

    If the MSM would give every candidate a fair shake we wouldn’t need to be having these debates.

    Anyway the more I learn and see a recurring pattern around Obama that does even come close to anything that resembles what I have seen and grown fond of in America.

    Biden and the Clintons have to be losing sleep every single wondering how in the world did we end up here?

    Meanwhile Congress completely looks the other way with Barney Frank and his life partner who is a key executive within Freddie and Fannie which are certainly at core of the greatest fleecing of the American taxpayer and home buyer. Yet we must have silent outrage because he is the far left and just happens to be gay. Guess that is what you need today you need these enablers so you can get away with anything you want.

  134. glenn says:

    Keep in mind Joe that people that witness a crime and do not report it or intervene rarely get arrested and convicted yet the people perping the crime should get arrested and convicted.

    McCain – A witness who tried to do something about it.

    Frank,Dodd,Waters, etc – Did everything they could to create this, conspired to derail any attempt to uncover or stop it, and they all personally profited from it.

    McCain and Bush certainly didn’t make anything of Freddie and Fannie – but if they did…then go after them too.

  135. JoeDuck says:

    Horatiox I just read the NYT piece. I was already very familiar with Sean Hannity’s very misleading, overblown take on their relationship. Here’s my take on that:

    Guilt by association is often an effective tactic but it’s not a legitimate reason to be concerned, and it appears that’s all there is to this story.

    Relevant questions and answers:

    Did Obama support Ayers’ activities?
    No, Obama was 8 years old.

    Does he support Ayers’ past activities now?
    No, nothing in Obama’s record or statements or activites suggests he does, and he has stated he does not.

    Has Ayers had anything that could be a significant influence on Obama’s thinking? Clearly not in terms of Ayers past activities. Probably somewhat influential in terms of Ayers educational reform activities, which appear to be of a strictly non-violent nature.

    The idea that a virtuous person must immediately disassociate himself from any objectionable people and ignore everything they do or say is preposterous. On the contrary, virtue and wisdom *require* these types of interactions.

    Obama’s very liberal voting record is legitimate territory for intelligent debate. Obama’s minor association with Ayers….is not.

  136. glenn says:

    Joe I would agree with you in some circumstances however this guy created a terrorist organization with a goal to take down our government – and they bombed the Pentagon, Police stations and innocent people died.

    From my narrow view of a terrorist I would say he is no better the Osama Bin Laden. They both shared a goal of taking down our government and were willing to kill innocent people in their quest.

    Sorry I can’t give a pass to someone like that. I am still in complete shock that they allow Ayers to teach!

    If you look at Ayers and other things that Obama says and has done.

    Why would someone want to be President of this country who?:

    Who knowingly associates with a terrorist – who by the way said immediately after 9/11 that they didn’t bomb enough.

    Who says he will make sure our troops have funding then votes against it?

    Who will say to people that our troops are bombing villages and killing civilians?

    Sorry these things definitely don’t sound like a person who I want to have their fingers near the button.

  137. glenn says:

    Joe is this far enough left for you? 🙂

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/03/obama-camp-debunks-voter_n_131686.html

    I think everyone can agree that ACORN is disgraceful at best.

    Why would the Obama campaign spend over $800k this year with ACORN?

    Why would Dodd and Frank originally earmark $700,000,000 for ACORN in the bailout bill?

    You would think they would be jumping up and down with outrage given the history of convictions and illegal activities with ACORN.

    ACORN looks like it is part of the organized crime unit that the far left has created to do everything it can to get Obama elected.

  138. glenn says:

    How about this far left?

    Even Alec Baldwin gets it…lol

  139. Paul says:

    Glenn – as Joe points out in 134, who has been in charge for the last 8 years? Who controlled both houses of Congress for 6 of the last 8 years? And they aren’t tainted ?!?…in any way ??? Freddie and Fannie has plenty of Republican defenders too. Come on, wake up and smell the coffee. The Republicans get an assist in this mess on several counts:
    1. They have long been strong advocates of deregulation of the financial services industry. They have traditionally wanted less oversight, not more. Though Clinton signed the bill that removed the last segments of Glass-Steagal, it was Republican legislation. They put a wall between investment bankers and banking after the Great Depression for good reason.
    2. There are two major contributors to this crisis you keep overlooking or fail to mention: leverage and derivatives. Deregulation has contributed greatly to the huge growth in the various derivatives that have greatly amplified the damage from mortgage-backed securities going South, deregulation that Republicans have long been strong proponents of.
    Abuse of leverage, in my mind, has more to do with Wall Street compensation than anything else. Wall Street has long operated with a compensation system that disproportionately rewards extreme risk taking. CEOs, traders, upper-level executives at investment banking firms make enormous salaries, then are promised bonuses many times those salaries if they hit the ball out of the park investing or trading for the firm. If they strike out, they still get their huge salaries. Little wonder, then, that they routinely take outsize risks that – with alarming regularity – blow up on them. It’s no surprise that most of these executives have strong ties to Republicans and Republican causes (witness Paulson, Thain, et al), but that is beside the point. It is the compensation system, not the politics, that has contributed to the problem. Lehman was rumored to hold MBS with 30:1 leverage; Merrill Lynch 20:1 – those firms would still be operating independent entities if their greed had not gotten in the way of prudence.
    It’s all about the money and there are plenty of culprits in each party who looked the other way because of lobbyists and generous campaign contributions. You keep trying to pin it on the Democrats and that’s just such a narrow & biased interpretation of the facts. It’s the whole system that’s broken, not one party or the other. Big business has far too much influence in D.C., and it’s not just the Democrats they have in their pocket.

  140. glenn says:

    Paul before you were blaming the Republicans for Glass-Steagal but using your logic than Bill Clinton was responsible for it.

    The facts are what they are and Fannie and Freddie deserve the majority of blame and Barney Frank and his partner Moses probably deserve to be in jail. Saying that must make me a homophobe…

    Deregulation allowed bad people to do some bad things – you can’t blame deregulation for what people ultimately decided to do.

    On the other hand Frank, Dodd deliberately bolstered Freddie and Fannie to be the most irresponsible financial organization to ever exist – suppose you want to blame deregulation for corruption within the Democratic party.

    And I have said many times that many people are to be blamed and it doesn’t mater to me whose party they are part of. We can start with Freddie and Fannie – follow the money trail and investigate every single person who profited from Freddie and Fannie and those that should be prosecuted they should do it – no exceptions. That would show our government is serious about accountability and that is what will help restore our great country and be the first step in fixing the broken system.

    Nobody wants to touch this hot potato because this will absolutely bring down a lot of very powerful people in Congress.

    Believe me Paul I have seen what Wall-Street does to companies. I have built public companies and watched how the fat cats made a ton of money on the way up and when we didn’t hit 500% real growth in the year they shorted us down to nothing and made 10X as much. I have no love lost if they go down burning.

  141. glenn says:

    Paul do you think Barney Frank and Chris Dodd should be investigated over Freddie and Fannie?

    Do you think they did anything wrong?

    Do you think they deserve to head up the committees that oversea the very industry that they corrupted for personal benefit?

  142. Paul says:

    We’ll see some kind of investigation or fact finding effort down the road, and I think they’ll find blame in lots of places and with people in both parties.

    You just want to go after Democrats. It’s as inane as the “impeach Bush rhetoric” , which is about as productive and constructive. Much as I think he’s done plenty wrong, with all the challenges facing the country, I don’t think it’s a productive use of time or money. We’ve got our work cut out for us just turning this situation around.

    Wall Street, for once, did a pretty thorough job of burning down their own house, which I take much satisfaction from. The 5 largest investment brokerage firms are history – either out of business, acquired by banks, or converted to more highly regulated bank entities to save their skins. For once, their avarice came home to roost….but they’ll rise from the dead, they always do, but they’ll be a lot more eyes watching a lot more closely this time.

  143. Paul says:

    It’s all fine and good to go after this individual or that individual, but until you go after the system that causes them to behave the way they behave, i.e the ability of lobbyists and industries to buy votes via contributions to candidates who vote the way they want them to – it’s just a waste of time. It will happen again and again and again.

  144. glenn says:

    you decide…

  145. glenn says:

    Paul you will find it of interest that Chris Dodd himself says the root cause of this is bad mortgages.

  146. JoeDuck says:

    It will be interesting to see what percentage of the bad paper comes from what types of loans. Early signs reported by Cavuto suggest that a lot was from speculators rather than low income households. This is important because it helps assign blame. Democrats were generally trying to protect loans to the poor, and many are suggesting this was the key meltdown condition. I’m not convinced this is the case. The key condition was the rapid *decline* in values.

  147. glenn says:

    I agree that speculators probably made up the most loans and they deserve what they get.

    What is most disturbing about this entire process is the fact that our government somehow thought it was a good idea to force banks into making risky loans and when people time and time again tried to get some oversight and avoid this debacle there were the same people over and over again blocking any attempt to stave off this train wreck.

    It’s disgusting!

  148. glenn says:

    Pretty soon a lot of the states that have the most foreclosed homes in them will start asking for loans as well.

    This is the beginning of a very big pit.

  149. glenn says:

    How many of you understand what is happening in Ohio?

    The Democratic Secretary in the state issued a directive that allowed a 6 day window for this past week which allowed people to come in and register to vote, pick up an absentee ballot and vote the same day.

    Here is the kicker: You don’t even need an ID to register and you don’t even need an ID to vote.

    Obama and ACORN are busing in people from neighboring states, including homeless people to vote.

    Doesn’t this bother anyone?

    Doesn’t this just seem a little to sketchy?

    Doesn’t this seem to be completely Un-American?

  150. glenn says:

    NY Times Article in 1999 about Subprime.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

    You go back and read this stuff and it is even clear to the far left press like NY Times that this move with Freddie and Fannie was a disaster waiting to happen.

    But since it is a feel good liberal policy let’s through caution to the wind because hey if it fails the Government will pick up the tab.

  151. glenn says:

    Interesting read on potential voter fraud.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10052008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/voter_fraud_expected_to_be_rampant_132170.htm

    They make a good point about requiring a photo id to vote. You need one to get on an airplane, rent a video or cash a check but you don’t need one to vote???

    82% of America believes it should be required. 70% of Obama supporters think it should be required.

    I actually didn’t realize that you didn’t need a photo id to vote in most states.

    But you will probably need a photo id to get health care from the Government…just crazy.

  152. glenn says:

    Now this is great…on CNN…yeah they are not unbiased.

    She says by show of hands that Biden overwhelmingly won the debate. So I stopped the video and counted.

    For Biden 10-11 people voted
    For Palin 11 people voted

    How mathematics standard is CNN using here?

    Either Biden lost by 1 vote by show of hands or they tied but the CNN host clearly say the Biden won overwhelmingly.

    This is as funny at SNL’s skit.

  153. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn for the record I’d guess that CNN’s top reporters lean to Obama. This is in large part because of shared sensibilites and it is a form of bias, but I do not see this injected into the reporting at anything like the levels I see at FOX, where is a *very* different situation that makes much of the coverage advocacy and not journalism. Talking points and bias are baked right in to the coverage, as they are doing now with the Ayers guilt by association story and the Ohio voter fraud story. Both are legitimate, but small, items in a pantheon of world events, but both are favorable to McCain. Are they talking any dirt about McCain? He’s got *plenty*, but it’s off their map.

  154. glenn says:

    Joe do you remember Pelosi’s speech when the Democrats took control a couple of years ago.

    She stated America overwhelmingly voted for change and she pledged that the Democrats where ready to lead and that they were going to lead the most honest and trustworthy Congress.

    Does anybody think there was a shred of truth in that?

    There has been no decent legislation from the Democrats and if you look at the facts that I have researched about Freddie an Fannie it looks like they were anything but honest and trustworthy.

    If anyone actually thinks Obama is going to help this country from where we stand today they are just not facing the facts.

    Obama’s campaigned on raising taxes and increased spending – and he has Biden trying to convince Americans it is patriotic to pay more in taxes!

    Both of the major elements of his plan would most certainly plunge our country into the deepest depression we have ever even seen – history shows this is what happens…all we have to do is look at the past to see how we tend to keep repeating it.

    Move the wheel forward 30 years…if there was a Presidential candidate that had an association with Bin Laden let’s say 15 years from now and Bin Laden help a political fund raiser to help me with my career and we worked on some questionable charity boards together-would you be concerned?

    Bill Ayers is no different than Bin Laden. There is no way in this great country of ours that Bill Ayers should be in a teaching position that is subsidized by taxpayer dollars.

    I can’t even imagine what type of neighborhood the Ayers and Obama live in but it is not like any neighborhood that I have ever lived in and I have lived in over 10 states during my life.

    How many of these sketchy associations does Obama have to have before we say…hmmm maybe there is something more here?

    And I love the guilt by association – Obama’s campaign started this by associating guilt to Bush with McCain and anyone that knows McCain knows that they are more adversaries then they are friends. McCain is the only Republican that had the guts to stand up to both parties.

    Obama opened up this door and he shouldn’t expect it to go away.

    If the media would report the truth on both tax plans and health plans America would see that McCain is right on those too.

    Obama’s position keeps shifting and people want to say he is being thoughtful, shifting his views as he learns more – yeah as he learns more ways to control the message to get more votes. Can you imagine a Pelosi led Congress with Obama in the Whitehouse?

    That actually maybe nirvana for some but it paints a very expensive future for America.

    When you look at the media:

    ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, FOX – the only one that at least tries to show the most is Fox, CNN 50% of the time tries to be fair. ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC are all in the tank for Obama.

    Ironically the media outlets that are most for Obama are almost bankrupt meanwhile FOX keeps setting new records.

    Anyone who thinks the media is fair at all has their head in the sand. If Obama had been properly vetted by MSM then he wouldn’t even be in this race.

    In 30 days we are going to find out.

  155. glenn says:

    Biggest issue about Bill Ayers outside the fact that he bombed buildings in the US and killed innocent people is the fact that on the day after the WTC he was asked in an interview and his response was:

    He was sorry that his terrorist organization didn’t do more bombings than they did.

    Bill Ayers was literally rooting for Bin Laden and probably still does today.

  156. glenn says:

    1960’s Bill Ayers bombs our Pentagon and kills innocent people.
    2000’s Bin Laden bombs our Pentagon and kills innocent people.

    Fast forward 30 years and we have a Presidential candidate who 15 years earlier had met Bin Laden. Bin Laden held a fund raiser to help this candidate in the beginning of their career. Bin Laden then served on a charity board with the candidate for a few years.

    Would you be concerned about that association?

  157. glenn says:

    Holes in the Times Article…

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3134362&referralPlaylistId=playlist

    Good information from Stanley Kurtz who actually went through the records in Chicago. Of course he had to challenge through FOI and after a 30 day delay while CAC scubbed the material clean he still found a lot of evidence that Obama was more than just a mere associate to Bill Ayers. In fact Obama funneled more than $100,000,000 to Bill Ayer’s projects. No wonder Bill held a fund raiser for him.

    http://www.eppc.org/publications/pubid.3549/pub_detail.asp

  158. glenn says:

    More from Kurtz…

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MTgwZTVmN2QyNzk2MmUxMzA5OTg0ODZlM2Y2OGI0NDM=

    I was mistaken about Bill Ayers…he is still a terrorist today. Unbelievable!

  159. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn I’ve looked at the connections between Obama and Ayers. They are small and only related to Ayers educational work which is not controversial.

    Obama, McCain, Palin, Biden should be judged on what they have done and probably will do. By this standard McCain has the most personal skeletons in his closet but I think you’d agree his past reckless behavior and associations are not all that relevant anymore. The funny thing about Obama is that he *does not have* much reckless behavior in his adult past (some in his youth). Thus, the political line is to work the guilt by association angles. Rev. Wright concerns is a lot more legit than Ayers, which is, literally, a big red herring.

    I see a lot of reasons to object to Obama (and McCain’s) spending policies which will *certainly* fail to address the unfunded liabilities and unbalanced budget. I see pretty much zero reason to worry about Obama’s past.

  160. glenn says:

    (162) Joe I used to dismiss the Ayers connection as well until I read about all the manipulation and denial of access to information which by any means doesn’t need to be hidden.

    Obama is stonewalling access to the truth and this raises more issues than not. What is it that he wants to hide to badly?

    Ayers is a terrorist and his radical work on the education side will not ever make up for the crimes he committed against innocent people in this country.

    Ayers had rights he could have exercised to have himself heard but what path did he choose…death and destruction and he hates America so why doesn’t he just move to a country that he likes?

  161. JoeDuck says:

    OK Glenn I feel like I have to answer … Yes, I’d be very concerned if Obama had ties to Bin Laden.

    He doesn’t!

    HW Bush actually does have a large number of ties to the Bin Laden family and there are literally thousands of connections between terrorists and our own Government in many places, but most of this is overblown. e.g. the CIA in Afghanistan and Saddam Rumsfeld meetings, etc.

  162. glenn says:

    (164) And I called Bush out on that as well! The day I heard about that is the day I stopped trusting him.

    Bin Laden is no different than Ayers except Bin Laden has a lot more money – I wonder what Ayers would have done if had the bank roll Bin Laden has…

  163. glenn says:

    BTW Joe…the fact that US Rep William Jefferson can survive a primary and actually be in the running for re-election spells out in volumes how apathetic the American people are.

    He has had the seat for 9 terms and has to be one of the top 25 most corrupt politicians this country has ever seen and yet he could get re-elected…

  164. JoeDuck says:

    I used to dismiss the Ayers connection as well until I read about all the manipulation and denial of access to information

    Kurtz claims sure seem overblown to me – he’s mostly just wildly speculating on stuff.

    To me the problem with folks like Kurtz is that he’s looking for dirt on Obama, not truth or clarity. He hates what Obama publicly stands for but knows that the only way to bring Obama down now is to go big and negative. This is politics, not journalism.

    I’d guess this is not so much “covering up” something as “hindering access” because they know Kurtz is looking to hurt Obama through the Ayers connection. Should a library hinder access for political reasons? I don’t think so but on balance that abuse is worth less in the campaign than the way Kurtz, Berg, others are simply working the negative stuff to see what might stick to Obama.

  165. glenn says:

    Joe you and I will have to disagree on this one. I think the Ayers connection is deeper than Obama is admitting.

    He funneled $100,000,000 to Ayers and Ayers is probably the one that got Obama on the board at CAC.

    You don’t launch your political career in the living room of some minor acquaintance.

    I don’t give Ayers a break for what he did. If not for a technicality Ayers would have gotten life in prison with no chance for parole at a minimum. He represents that absolute worst of America and is no different than Bin Laden.

    The fact that Obama connected with Ayers and was involved for several years with Ayers and in the beginning of his political career Ayers is mentioned in articles, etc in regard to Obama and then in two memoirs Obama never discusses Ayers and/CAC – arguably Obama’s most executive experiene he has – none of it adds up.

    I could never support anyone that ever had any connection to a terrorist especially when that person knew he was a terrorist. Even during 9/11 Ayers was a disgrace and still harbors his anti-American sentiment and beliefs.

    Sorry the Ayers connection is important to me because my family through the generations had paid quite a bit while serving in our armed forces protecting our rights in this country.

    NEVER FORGET, NEVER SURRENDER.

  166. glenn says:

    http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/971106/justice.shtml

    As you peel back more and more and learn about Ayers it gets more disgusting. After 9/11 he said he didn’t regret the bombings and that he wished he bombed more and then asked if he would do it again – he COULDN’T rule out the possibility!

    What you should do is look closely at Columbia University and a professor there – Rashid Khalidi who Obama admits he knows and the money trail is starting to show that Rashid was in the middle of the money provided to Obama could go to Harvard and another radical Saudi provided the juice to open up Harvard’s doors for him.

    Of course all of Obama’s activities at Columbia and Harvard have been blocked for anyone to see.

    Remember Rashid is the one who has called for the death of Israel, was a member of the PLO (when they were a terrorist organization) and also called for the death of white people in America.

    Rashid once called Israel – “the sore”, interestingly enough a month later Obama in a speech referred to “the sore” as a major problem in US Middle East policies.

    It is obvious that Obama is more than just a passing friend to these anti-American radical terrorists – they have played a significant role in his rise to power.

  167. glenn says:

    (156) In regard to CNN – the network as a whole is in the tank for Obama.

    If during the highest ratings event you have – the VP debate and you put someone in place like they did to create the view that Biden overwhelmingly won the debate while you know you will have the most viewers watching proves they are seriously biased.

    No one is talking about how Palin is breaking ALL ratings records and getting more and more people involved in this election – the reason – Palin is awakening more of the “wrong” type of voter. The people watching Palin are not the felons, drug addicts, homeless, etc…

  168. glenn says:

    Now the Fed is going to let private enterprises borrow directly from the Fed that aren’t even banks.

    I suspect the total bill for the bail-out will be in the ballpark of several trillion dollars.

    We will see some insane moves this week as they try to make guesses about a market that ultimately will decide.

    Capitalism/Free Markets on the way up….Socialism/Communism on the way down…

    Just leave it alone.

  169. glenn says:

    Foreign investors are pulling their money out of our markets now…the DOW is going to plunge at an alarming rate this week.

    Meanwhile we continue to create a super unfriendly tax environment where $15 trillion US dollars are kept in tax-havens in offshore accounts.

    Time to rethink our tax policies to get that money back in our country ASAP.

    The FairTax is easiest plan to implement which would have a dramatic positive impact. Of course the liberals hate it – not because it won’t work but because it would be the greatest shift of power from our government back to the people.

    Do yourself a favor and read up about the FairTax and imagine what unbounded economic growth and the return of $15 trillion US taxpayer dollars would mean back into our banking system and economy right now.

  170. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn for the record I do not see how Barney Frank can politically survive this, and based on what I’ve seen he should be voted out. I’m not clear on Dodd yet, and I don’t accept that they are corrupt – just doing the same old business as usual in a system that does not reward quality thinking.

    FOX is really harping on the political angles because they are trying to disable Obama’s likely win. Economic forces are more significant in all this than political forces.

    Glenn I watched the Sean Hannity hit piece on Obama and it was chock full of very misleading stuff – they spent most of the time trying to establish Ayers and Rashid and ACORN as “radical bad players” and then note that Obama crossed paths with them. You’d need a lot more information to assume there’s even smoke here, let alone fire.

    Obama’s been supportive of Israel and even based on Hannity’s report his association with Rhashid was to get a *different and broader* perspective on Middle East conflict. As with Ayers, Obama’s only guilty of minor associations with people he disagrees with who have questionable connections.

    It’s very hard to find any key players in the Middle East who have no connections to either Palestinian or Israeli illegal violent terror activities. Certainly GW Bush and company have (correctly) been talking to both sides, McCain will do this and and Obama will too. That’s a necessary condition of politics in the sad, violent legacy of the Middle East.

    The McCain attacks are about to backfire pretty severely because even though I don’t think any of the four candidates have skeletons we should worry about but McCain and Palin have more that will be of concern to average Americans. Even though McCain was largely absolved of any illegality in the S&L scandal I sure wouldn’t want to have to explain to people how I was vacationing with Keating while he was cheating and swindling the American people.

  171. JCH says:

    The problem with Keating isn’t illegality, it’s his judgement. The S&L crisis was a direct failure of deregulation tactics. I was there. It was a major financial catastrophe. Since that crisis McCain has continued to champion deregulation of all sorts. He had no clue then, and I do not think he has a clue now. He trumpets deregulation at every opportunity as some sort of magic fix it. he seems to think it’s like that late-night epoxy they sell on TV.

    And without some sort of ethical or criminal charge, Frank survives this with relative ease. I don’t see one. It is not illegal to have an opinion that ends up wrong.

    I’m also an investor, and, to be honest, any fool who buys or sells based upon what a politician says in a press conference has failed to do due diligence, and it’s natural selection form then on.

  172. glenn says:

    At least with Keating we had hearings, investigations, etc etc etc…

    And we found out just how corrupt 4 Democrats were.

    With Frank, Obama we haven’t had that chance.

    Obama will not share information about Ayers, Columbia, Harvard – how he paid for Harvard?

    It goes on and on…

    How can any of you be comfortable with this?

  173. glenn says:

    Now Obama is calling for more Government spending…lol

    Roosevelt II

    The New New Deal

    Newsflash – DOW reaches 10,000 in 2035

    We love to repeat history in our country.

  174. glenn says:

    BTW…does it bother anyone that this years Presidential election will have cost about $1.7 billion dollars between the candidates.

    If you include all the races it quickly approaches $4 billion.

    In 2004 the Presidential candidates spent $400 million…

    The entire process and system is just completely out of control now.

  175. Paul says:

    (178) THAT is one thing we can agree on & it goes to the heart of the influence peddling, vote buying, lobbying & lobbyists that have completely upended the democracy envisioned by the founding fathers.

  176. glenn says:

    More Ayers dirt…

    Let me give you a quote from Ayers in 1970:

    “Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents that’s where it’s really at…”

    Additionally on multiple occasions and in print Ayers was proud to say that he was a communist in the US living underground.

    So let’s establish something here. He is no different than Bin Laden – total scum.

    After 9/11 Bill Ayers stated he didn’t regret the bombings, that he didn’t bomb enough and he wouldn’t rule out doing it again.

    He got off on a technicality of a wire-tap screw up from the FBI – basically the wire-tap information was thrown out.

    Lanny Davis said Bill Ayers was despicable and during the Vietnam protest era which Davis was an active participant he viewed Ayers as a person which was disgusting and causing most of the violence in the USA. When asked if Davis would sit on a board with Ayers, would go to Ayers house or basically do anything with Ayers he said absolutely not and he couldn’t understand why anyone would.

    David Axlerod stated that Obama and Ayers were just acquaintances and now today that everything is coming out about Ayers Axlerod changed his tune and said will Obama had no idea of who Bill Ayers was…BS!

    Here is what we now know about Ayers and Obama.

    Ayers was given a grant of 10 of millions of dollars to provide teaching to students through CAC. Ayers selected Obama to distribute 10’s of millions of dollars each year for 5 years to radical groups (NOT SCHOOLS) to teach children how to become radicalized and uprise.

    There is also a long litany of other meetings that Ayers and Obama worked together on coming out of the recently released documents from the Woods foundation – so there is a lot more to this story as well.

    Some points to consider:
    1) You don’t select someone to handle 10’s of millions of dollars for you that is just a mere acquaintance.
    2) You don’t work with someone for 5 years who distributes 10’s of millions of dollars for you each year that is just a mere acquaintance.
    3) You don’t launch your political career in the living room of just a mere acquaintance.

    There is no way Barack Obama didn’t know who William Ayers was and is. Ayers is no different than Bin Laden and anyone who would vote for a President of this country that has relationships with known terrorists really needs to think about it.

    This relationship with Ayers is significant and we are being deliberately misled by Obama about it.

    Add Wright, Flager, Farrakan, Khalidi and you start to get a really bad picture of what America could become and there are two things that all of these people have in common:

    1) They hate rich people and want to kill them.
    2) They are socialists and communists.

    You don’t spend 20 years in a church with someone as outrageous as Wright and not hear radical speeches by Wright – that is even weaker than Bill Clinton’s I tried it once but didn’t inhale.

    You also don’t proclaim:

    1) I could not disown Rev Wright any more than I can disown black people
    2) I could throw away Rev Wright any more than I could throw away my brother

    Then throw the guy under the bus.

  177. horatiox says:

    The Ayers/Obama connection, while perhaps relevant, seems a bit of a desperation move on part of GOPers. Legal boys would call it circumstantial. Add it to the BO-mystery file (along with the unreleased college records, possible birth cert., other oddities), but in itself that BO worked with Ayers on committees not sufficient to really prove anything. Yet both sides play the guilt by association, so part of the campaign-defamation technique. What’s more, many voters, at least urban DNCocrats, probably don’t care in the least: “Ah what’s that dawg? Homie Obama kicked it wit’ some irish reds? Who da F. cares.”

    Obama appears to have had radical connections back in the day–he admits to respecting one Frank Davis, a CP-USA chieftain (and BO’s mama was a red, from way back). Ayers/Weathermen, however, was before his time. How the Weathermen like Ayers, and that Bernadine broad (and others) avoided serious charges remains a bit mysterious: the weather underground killed quite a few.

  178. glenn says:

    Michael Jackson should move his Neverland ranch to Obama’s neighborhood IT IS A PERFECT FIT.

  179. glenn says:

    LOL…does this surprise anyone?

    11 theaters under investigation for ticket fraud for incorrect totals for tickets sold for American Carol

    http://americancarol.com/fraud/

    Are liberals this threatened?

  180. glenn says:

    Don’t forget Tony Resko…another great individual Obama is closely tied to who also happens to own in Obama’s neighborhood.

  181. glenn says:

    Doesn’t anyone find it odd that Obama was the CEO of the project that Ayers helped fund, yet he never talks about it.

    Obama held this position for years and his responsibility involved millions of dollars, yet he never talks about it.

    It’s not even in his memoirs…sounds like those books have been a little cooked.

    You would think a person running for the highest executive position in this country would be talking about his executive experience especially since this is the only executive experience he has. I find that rather odd.

    Obama must be hiding something here.

    Sounds like Obama first supported Ayers before he decided to vote against Ayers…

    Didn’t he do that with Rev Wright as well?

  182. glenn says:

    No wonder Barack Obama is friends with Bill Ayers.

    Listen to Obama in his own words:

    “That’s just how white folks will do you. It wasn’t merely the cruelty involved; I was learning that black people could be mean and then some.It was a particular brand of arrogance, an obtuseness in otherwise sane people that brought forth our bitter laughter. It was as if whites didn’t know that they were being cruel in the first place. Or at least thought you deserving of their scorn.” pg 80

    “So I read the book to help me understand what makes white people so afraid. Their demons. The way ideas get twisted around. It helps me understand how people learn to hate.” (emphasis added). Pg 103

    more Obama:

    “Black Nationalism- “a steady attack on the white race”-is justified if it can deliver results.”

    Obama isn’t a radical?

    This is who we want to bring our nation together…

    Sounds more like a scene from Pink Floyd – The Wall!

  183. glenn says:

    Gee shocker…ACORN offices raided by Nevada election officials suspecting voter fraud.

    I wonder how many people have really read Obama’s books the more I dig the more it is clear this guy is a radical and is most definitely anti-Israel and quite frankly probably only aligned with about 2% of the American people.

    It is a shame that we live in such a great country and people don’t want to push for the truth and learn.

    Obama could clear all this up if he just provided people access to where the answers lie.

  184. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn what are some pieces of information that in your view would suggest Obama is pretty much who he says he is, a liberal Democrat who does not approve of, but has abided, a small number of far left radicals in his rise to political power? That’s the story and – almost incredibly to me – all the evidence supports that. I keep expecting to see something at least a little incriminating because never in the history of politics have more people been looking harder for something to bring down a candidate.

    When I follow up on Ayers or Berg or all this other stuff it leads to partisan garbage, not relevant information. Ayers is the strongest piece of garbage so it’s the talking point getting hammered now, but there’s no reason to think there is anything there to suggest Obama supports terror or has any respect whatsoever for that point of view.

    Some people think abortion is murder, and in fact it used to be legally considered murder. So you are saying if you are strongly pro-life you must completely disassociate yourself with any pro-choice people, even when you are working on project *totally unrelated* to abortion? Obama’s relationship to Ayers is analagous, and therefore of no consequence with respect to his Presidential qualifications. Of course he’s downplaying that relationship because it was obvious it would be used against him. You can’t reasonably have this both ways. Either he fully discloses information and attackers promise to accept it at face value or expect some roadblocks to prevent misrepresentation.

    You’d think there’d be at least a few Obama quotes where he lost control and called out somebody, used the N word, etc etc. Instead, all we find are a few old associations with a few nasty people out of the tens of thousands you must encounter in big money politics.

  185. Paul says:

    (191) Joe, I think the operative and crucial phrase in all of what you wrote above is: “never in the history of politics have more people been looking harder for something to bring down a candidate.” For that reason, I just don’t buy that there is some great untold/hidden secret out there will blow-up either candidate. The scrutiny you allude to has to be one of the most arduous vetting processes in the free world.
    I don’t think that applies solely to Obama, clearly operatives in both parties are hard at work on the records and histories of their opponents.

    That this is all happening is somewhat sad. We have substantive issues and challenges to discuss, topics that are far more critical to our nation than the slanted character bombs being lobbed by both sides.

    Having said that, they speculated this would happen on “Meet The Press” this past weekend during their pundits roundtable. Said Peggy Noonan, author and former speechwriter for Reagan:
    “The left—there’s a huge middle in America, but there’s a left. They think they’re going to win, and they’re getting meaner than ever. The right fears they’re going to lose, they’re getting meaner than ever. I would hate to see this descend into this, this—“I’ll kill—I’ll tear your throat out” kind of stuff. I think that would be harmful. I think we are at a unique and dangerous moment in history, and it’s the last thing we need….”

    They later went on to say that McCain bringing up “character” could easily backfire on him due to his well-documented relationship with Charles Keating, a relationship I am sure he would rather the American electorate not dwell on.

    I bet Keating comes up in the debate tonight.

  186. glenn says:

    Joe as always your posts are both thoughtful and thought provoking.

    I didn’t see the pro-life angle until you mentioned it. I would hope that isn’t the case here.

    The radicalization elements within Obama’s life have a recurring theme – Kill the rich and become communist – now I know this is an over simplification and at least I didn’t say kill whitey! Can you imagine the uproar…lol?

    Seriously these associations are much deeper than we are being told. Obama was essentially hired by Ayers to a CEO level position responsible for 10’s of millions of dollars over many years. Joe I have been building very large corporations for a long time now and I can assure you whenever I am tapped to be a CEO or I am tapping someone to be a CEO to handle millions of dollars without a doubt we know literally everything about each other.

    So based on my executive experience the spin coming out of Axlerod and Obama is total BS.

    The issue here in my mind is why is Obama trying to cover ALL of this up. This isn’t a slip of the mind this actually should be a major part of his story – what Obama did with Ayers, CAC and ACORN is REALLY big and it is unfortunate that Obama choose the wrong people to be associated with.

    So where does this leave us? We cannot get a clear definition of who Obama is. He felt so strong to SPIN his story he wrote two memoirs – two memoirs and he is a freshman senator…hello McFly doesn’t that in itself raise a red flag? He is completely trying to control the message and not trying to control it so you get it right – he is controlling it so you don’t get it right.

    Why won’t he show his college records? Yet another void…another important part of his life that would further shape his beliefs and would allow all of us to see how much of a scholar he truly is. The left and MSM want us to believe he is some type of intellect and sure went to a couple of good schools but we can’t even find out how he get in there in the first place…don’t we have a right to know that or is this topic radioactive because he is liberal and how are anyone ask something like that?

    There is building evidence that Obama got into Harvard Law with the help of some Muslin radicals…if that were true do you think it would affect the election? – of course it would. All we know is he went to Harvard Law and when he left Harvard he had $40k in debt. You go to Harvard Law school and you don’t graduate with just $40k of debt…

    I have no problem with someone being liberal in this country but I have a problem with someone adjusting just how liberal they are and misleading people.

    This country is great because we have open debates on tough subjects and as a result we all end up better informed and able to make better decisions.

    How come Obama is trying so hard to stop the open debate?

    He only wants to debate his carefully scripted tele-prompt provided talking points.

    I really just want to understand him and who he really is because when you start doing the math most of this not adding up.

    The other shame with this election is that it is mainly a referendum on Bush which I fully get and understand. I think Bush will go down as one of the if not the single worst President this country has ever had but I do think he will ultimately be judged fairly on the wars we are involved in and it will be very different than it is today.

    So because of the sad state of the Whitehouse and their miserable performance we are seeing a large anger vote and I feel many people will vote for Obama not for what Obama is or wants to do but just to vote against Bush.

    Nov 4th will come and go and we all wake up with a hangover from this outrageous campaign year and wonder if we just made a big mistake the night before.

  187. Paul says:

    (193) Well, if whatever is decided on November 4th is a big mistake, in November of 2010 the pendulum will swing yet again – or won’t – with 36 Governors and 34 Senatorial seats up for grabs, as well as the House….checks and balances are a good thing.

  188. glenn says:

    (194) Paul you bring up an interesting point about 2010. I think with the approval rating that congress currently has I think we should adopt a no-confidence clause that forces ALL of them to be up re-election during the current election.

  189. JoeDuck says:

    “Black Nationalism- “a steady attack on the white race”-is justified if it can deliver results.”

    Glenn this appears to be words juxtaposed from Obama’s book where he was talking about why Black Nationalism appealed to some.

    Sure, Obama’s downplaying some of his past – that’s what you have to do in our soundbyte system, but after reading a lot o the hit pieces I don’t see any reason to think he’s anything other than what he appears to be to most – a thoughtful and sharp liberal Democrat.

    Personally I’d very much prefer a fiesty independent in the mold of the founders, but we’ve got at least another election cycle before that is even a remote possibility.

    These are all moot points anyway – I predict tonight’s debate will have low to no affect on polls, and Obama will soon have a near-lock on the election with a huge electoral advantage and 50%+ of the national vote. Unless he throws Ayers a birthday party, kisses him on the lips and runs off to get married in California I think we better get used to calling him … Mr. President.

  190. glenn says:

    (196) You should disclose that you have a vested interest if Obama wins to be fair.

    😉

  191. glenn says:

    CNN investigative correspondent Drew Griffin presented many of the missing details about the relationship between Barack Obama and left-wing terrorist William Ayers that two earlier “Truth Squad” reports on the network on Sunday and Monday omitted.

    Griffin stated that despite the spin of the Obama campaign and their mainstream media supporters, “…the relationship between Obama and Ayers went much deeper, ran much longer, and was much more political than Obama said.”

    via Newsbuster.org

  192. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn – Ha, you are right!

    Official Disclosure:
    I have a dinner bet with Glenn that Obama will win

  193. glenn says:

    (199) LOL – it actually made me laugh out loud.

  194. JoeDuck says:

    I think we are at a unique and dangerous moment in history, and it’s the last thing we need….”

    I worry about this too and Glenn I’d be interested in your take on the risks of violence from people misinterpreting criticism of Obama’s character as a call to violence.

    The nature of the attacks against Obama is suggesting he’s a threat to Democracy, and extremists may interpret this as a call to violence. I realize that is only a tiny fraction of people, but to my way of thinking the far left talk seems kooky while the far right talk seems potentially threatening because it’s trying to paint Obama as a radical extremist who wants to destroy the country.

  195. Paul says:

    201. Beyond that, I’ve worried all along that another James Earl Ray would reappear and try to kill him simply because of the color of his skin. Sadly, as numerous anonymous polls have shown, bigotry is still alive and well in the U.S. of A.

  196. glenn says:

    (201) Interesting point. I think we at risk for some major problems in our country and part of me believes that some of the people in the far left (Rev Wright, Farrakhan, Flager, Khiladi, and even Ayers) get some justification if Obama wins.

    Whether or not the feeling is justified, people who want disruption will leverage both ways – regardless of their affiliation.

    It is really a shame that Obama even had these connections – I don’t get people that want to aspire to lead our country would ever have anything to do with people that represent 1-3% of our population. It is decisive and could fracture the country and what is really scary if you think about it that is exactly what someone like William Ayers wants to see happen – he freely holds the same line as he did 40 years ago – ironically Ayers wife is even worse than him.

    Some will join “the left” or “the right” because of party allegiance which personally I think is silly but that has more to do with what I like to call the “sheeple” effect they have to belong to something.

    Think about how awesome this would be if Obama didn’t have these associations and some of his extreme positions it would be a no-brainer.

    I think America is screaming for middle and blending not fringe and separation. I don’t see anything middle with Obama, I see more with McCain. Frankly I would like more choices but it is what it is and I would rather move to the middle but I don’t think we can lose with being fiscally conservative.

    I hope we don’t spiral into domestic violence that would just be awful and I also don’t think there is any room for racism in this world. My biggest problem with the left is they always love to play the race card and I think it hurts the cause more than it helps – however we must consider the use of the race card may be the universal signal for the pac’s etc to start their attacks.

    As it may be obvious I am very fiscally conservative it has always worked but I am very middle socially and I think we need to do more to help people but we shouldn’t engage in welfare and class warfare – both are big mistakes and we have over 100 years of watching it failing.

  197. glenn says:

    (203) additionally I think Obama falls short on his tax plans and economics because it looks like it is driven with static analysis…we do far too much of that when we try to evaluate or model problems that seem beyond our grasp.

    It is also a result of the dumb-down method of getting everybody on the same page.

    We suffer greatly because of the ridiculous complexity of our tax code.

    People are so very afraid of the idea but literally scraping our existing tax code and implementing only true consumption taxes would be a game changer right now. Our economy would grow at an astronomical rate and our stock markets would be much stronger.

    Take all the accountants and IRS employees and put them on a 5 year project to review every single law on the books and hold referendum’s on the controversial ones and scrape the stupid laws and then let the states decide what laws they have. In my heart I believe we are a republic and we should act like one.

  198. glenn says:

    Here is the newsbuster story link about the CNN report.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2008/10/07/cnn-s-drew-griffin-does-real-fact-check-obama-ayers-connection

    It has the transcript. Interesting how their own investigative reporter easily found more information about Obama’s relationship with Ayers and it certainly doesn’t jive with the MSM’s spin of the relationship.

    See Joe when you read this and see the real truth – you are talking about a minimum 10 year working relationship dealing with over 50 million dollars you would think someone would talk about this.

  199. glenn says:

    Raila Odinga is a cousin of Obama, Obama went to Kenya and helped campaigned for Odinga…

    I cannot believe no one is touching this one.

    Seriously Joe – the connection is clear here…I am shocked.

  200. glenn says:

    Look at Khalid if you want to see where the violence is going to come from. – this gets more crazy every second…

  201. glenn says:

    Watch these videos…this is what we are facing in this years election – but these associations don’t matter…aye yi yi

    Barack Obama & Raila Odinga

    Barack Obama & Khalid Al-Mansour

    Joe watch those two until completion and tell me this doesn’t raise questions about Obama with you?

  202. glenn says:

    Lovely on Ayers…he is working with Chavez…no wonder Obama thinks he can sit down with these scumbags around the world he already has an invitation.

    With Obama/Ayers, we have ample documentation their association was not just casual, but in fact meaningful.

    “If you’re in public life, you ought to say, ‘I don’t want to be associated with this guy,’ ” observes columnist Steve Chapman. “If John McCain had a long association with a guy who’d bombed abortion clinics, I don’t think people would say, ‘That’s ancient history.’ ”

    That Ayers’ totalitarian revolutionary agenda isn’t history is shown by Ayers today sitting on the directorate of the Miranda International Center, a think tank funded by the Venezuelan government of Hugo Chavez, unofficially a state sponsor of terror that just last weekend was found to be hosting terror training camps with Cuban and FARC operatives to attack its neighbors. Ayers is both a hero and adviser to Hugo Chavez and a colleague of Obama’s.

    A brief resume of Ayers on the Venezuelan government site describes him as “the leader of the revolutionary and anti-imperialist group The Weather Underground which initiated struggle against the government of the USA,” which it calls “the empire.”

    Ayers is also described as having “developed courses around the urban reform (and) problems of capitalist education.” That refers to Ayers’ joint involvement with Obama in the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a school “reform” project Ayers used to insert a radical socialist curriculum into the Windy City’s public schools.

    found at this link:
    http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308185788382240

  203. JoeDuck says:

    you would think someone would talk about this

    Glenn *everybody* in the media is talking about this. NYT, Fox totally obsessively, CNN….everybody.

    But the old strategy does not appear to be working of focusing on a bad guy connection and then pretending the candidate supports the bad guy. We’ve had 2 years to get to know Obama and he’s clearly who he claims to be.

  204. glenn says:

    Joe when you read the piece on Ayers in the NYT they completely downplay what Ayers even was and is.

    Same thing with CNN. The investigative report they ran in the middle of the day with the market tanking at 19 minutes after the hour – that is usually when you talk about the old lady whose dog ran away.

    That is the point about this. If ALL of the media was honest about the depth of who these radical people are if would be a different story.

  205. Paul says:

    (211) No, it’s not that, it’s just that the American people look at all the information and collectively give a big shrug and a yawn. It’s neither persuasive nor compelling, hence the predictable reaction.

  206. glenn says:

    (213) Paul its interesting to hear Obama that he wants to go into African countries and use US military to help stop bloodshed but he goes to Kenya on taxpayer dollars and stumps for his cousin who thwarted the election process through violence and death and then as the militant leaders creates a pact with muslim extremists…but these relationships don’t matter.

    Next people will say he isn’t close to his family members or didn’t know what they were doing.

    He has no problem going to Kenya to help a brutal dictator murdering cousin while his blood brother lives in a box.

  207. glenn says:

    This crap is just wrong.

    http://www.observer.com/2008/politics/black-congressmen-declare-racism-palin-s-rhetoric?page=0%2C0

    Meeks is truly an idiot – he was an idiot when he was testifying on Freddie and Fannie and he is a complete idiot for saying this stuff.

    It is a disgrace.

  208. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn ! Where do you get this stuff like the Kenya cousin crazyness? It’s just a kooky fake rumor. They are not related and Obama never promoted the guy.

  209. glenn says:

    (216) Joe how do you know it isn’t true? That’s the problem here we are all blocked from getting to the bottom of any of this.

    What would happen if you did find out it is true?

    Don’t you find it interesting that the author of a negative book about Obama was basically thrown out of Kenya on the eve of him releasing his book?

    And now we learn that Obama is still a smoker, who still smokes anymore? Everyone knows smoking is a death sentence. Bottom line: smart people don’t smoke.

  210. glenn says:

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77291

    We don’t even know what is happening in Kenya…it is being controlled like everything else.

    We are witnessing Atlas Shrug in 3D reality now…

  211. glenn says:

    McCaskill’s edge

    I mentioned a few days ago that Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill’s mild affect masks a bit of a killer, and that she’s perhaps the Obama campaign’s deftest surrogate on the attack.

    But I was still kind of amused by her brief interaction with Mitt Romney in the press file just now.

    McCaskill was stepping out of her chair at the end of an MSNBC interview, and Romney was up next. She and a staffer unplugged her various wires, and she handed Romney the earpiece the guests use to hear the host.

    “I spit on this before I put it in,” she said to Romney, with a sweet smile.

    UPDATE: Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom emails: “You should have seen what she did to the chair.”

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCaskills_edge.html

    A party of such nice people.

  212. horatiox says:

    We’ve had 2 years to get to know Obama and he’s clearly who he claims to be.

    I’m not completely convinced of that, Mr. Duck. ObamaCo has done some covering-up, not only in regards to the Ayers’ connection, but the birth cert. issue (it may be valid, but not “vaulted” cert.), other radical leftist connections (like CP-USA, which BO admits to in his bio), his fundamentalist and muslim pals (like Keith Ellison, who took his oath of office on the Koran). Consider also the bizarre Sinclair fiasco, and BO’s hidden undergraduate record/grades (why can’t journalists access that, as they did Bush, Kerry, McCain, etc??).

    The DNC have groomed St. Barack for years (as did the Clintons, I suspect). On the other hand, Pops McCain’s own record does not impress overly much either. Best to stick with DFV (Don’t F-ing Vote)

  213. Paul says:

    (219) If you don’t vote, you can’t complain about the outcome.

  214. glenn says:

    ACORN needs to be shut down. This is absurd and absolute assault on our democracy. Regardless of which candidate benefits from this illegal activity.

    http://www.lvrj.com/news/30613864.html

    Obama should step up and publicly rebuke ACORN and stop funding their activities.

  215. horatiox says:

    Sure you can, since you didn’t approve of either candidate (or if one voted for 3rd party candidate). Besides, the “lesser of two evils is still evil.” And I suggest Americans are presented with a choice between two evils, figuratively speaking (or in secular terms, corrupt, deceiving, incompetent, “insiders”). Sort of like classic western show-down: McCain gang, with Calamity Sarah, vs. some pinkerton Fed daffodillies from yankeeland. Sounds trite, but close to that.

  216. glenn says:

    (223) I am starting to better understand your position on this. After seeing how McCain has supported $700 billion in the bail-out and now wants to spend another $300 billion on buying bad paper.

    He is spending as much as Obama…geesh.

    McCain has definitely blown every opportunity to take the lead in this election and he squanders it.

    I don’t know what you thought about the townhall meeting last night but it didn’t look like any townhall meeting that I have been to. It was more what I would envision of a townhall meeting in a communist country.

    What a shame that the last two debates were such a waste! It has just been talking points and nothing interesting.

    I think Rick Wagner nailed it this year – even if you didn’t like some of the questions the format was much better and we have missed an opportunity to really ask the candidates touch questions and watch how they answer.

  217. JoeDuck says:

    Horatiox, Glenn: I agree may be some modest level of diversion and maybe covering up going on, I just don’t think it’s very alarming – more along the lines of protecting against the sound byte stupidity that passes as TV journalism. Both McCain and Obama have information that can easily be misrepresented or exaggerated in importance. If McCain campaign keeps up the character attacks we’ll be seeing much of his (mostly irrelevant) checkered past coming up.

    When you examine power players as carefully as we do you are going to find a lot of quotes and associations. When these are put in proper context they generally are not alarming. When taken out of context it’s easy to spin this stuff very negatively. Spin isn’t truth, it’s …. politics as usual and needs to be discounted if you want to make a good judgement about a person.

    Glenn the Las Vegas ACORN stuff is very alarming but it appears ACORN was helping with the LV investigation for some time so I’m wondering if politics has played a role in the timing of the raid in that office. ACORN is huge and you are sure to find lots of irregularities. I don’t think Obama’s modest associations with them is all that alarming, though I certainly wish Obama was less sympathetic to the far left than he appears to have been in the past.

    It’s not reasonable to “assume the worst”, rather to assume that if you flesh in details about the “hit job” stories they will not paint a far different picture than is painted by the wealth of detailed information we already have.

  218. glenn says:

    (226) I don’t think ACORN might have the impact some might be fearing for the overall election – except they could impact the electoral.

    The problem is this…ACORN has been doing this for a decade and getting away with it.

    ACORN is a corrupt organization that is clearly partisan yet gets 40% of its funding from the taxpayer and it has amounted to hundreds of millions of tax money.

    The fact that ACORN is in the middle of the housing scandal and was instrumental in forcing Thrifts to give bad loans and was to receive a total of over $700 million from the bail-out I think this is a very significant issue.

    Add to that not surprisingly Obama has spent $800k with them this is all connected through a money trail.

    Then look at Fannie and Freddie campaign contributions and a picture starts to form.

    Keep in mind that Obama is #2 in the donation list from Freddie and Fannie and he has only had 3 years to reach #2 compared to 30 years with others.

    One major issue with Obama getting elected and Pelosi in power the entire Fannie and Freddie scandal not only gets swept under the rug but the corruption will spread and we will have even bigger problems around this.

    Word on the street has it that Obama was on the phone Monday with a group of advisors and he asked them all the submit the biggest spending ideas they could come up with. Obama is looking at a victory in this election and the support of the bail-out as the signal that America wants a strong socialistic approach for the future.

  219. glenn says:

    BTW Joe as you know…if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and sounds like a duck…its a freakin duck!

    Birds of a feather flock together…

  220. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn a lot of your money numbers seem way off from what I’m reading on this stuff – how confident are you these are correct?

    Funneling 100,000,000 to Ayers?
    Obama paid 800,000 to Acorn?
    Acorn mostly funded by taxpayers?

    I’m still not convinced ACORN has much if any impact on much of anything. I can’t find where anything but their loan programs would get tax money and I have not heard of scandals with that money. I found the registration numbers from 2003/2004 and they were small. Putting football star names on the forms is not exactly suggesting the level of sophistication you’d expect if this was a conspiracy to shift the vote in swing states.

  221. glenn says:

    (229)

    Part of his campaign records shows $800k to ACORN so far, I don’t know the date of the reporting.

    40% of ACORN’s funding comes from taxpayer monies estimated to be over $700 million since ACORN started.

    Key facts about ACORN:
    They have several convictions of actual voter fraud.
    One key case in WA state they submitted 1800 absentee ballots and only 6 were valid. They were convicted on that one.

    The NV raid was sparked from very bad voter registrations and ballots where in one case it was the same name on ten forms but with ten different addresses but had the exact same signature on every form.

    The point is most states don’t have the checks and balances in place to validate this stuff.

    To date in 21 states their registrations exceed 1.2 million but I don’t have any way to confirm that.

    Additionally in close states a couple hundred thousand votes could affect the electoral balance.

    I think once the smoke clears Joe ACORN will be exposed as another corrupt vehicle like Freddie and Fannie that the liberals use as a way to fund money to different places.

    I hear of a major report coming this month that exposes some startling things about the money trail within ACORN.

  222. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn did you realize how much of the Hannity hit piece claims against Obama were coming from a single, unreliable source? This is the classic case of trying to throw so much garbage at Obama that some of it is bound to stick:

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/07/america/fox.php

  223. JoeDuck says:

    if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and sounds like a duck…its a freakin duck>

    Agreed! I won’t argue with that good old duck logic..

  224. glenn says:

    The NV raid on ACORN was part of a sting operation.

    BTW I saw a video of an interview with an ACORN “volunteer” who was asked about what she does, etc…and she said right to the interviewer that she helped people to fill out the paperwork and convinced them to vote for Obama…

    LOL

    They get tax dollars because they are supposed to be non-partisan.

  225. glenn says:

    (231) LOL…seriously IHT the smear arm of the New York Times.

    I have no idea about who fed Sean but I do know that Hillary was the first one to raise these issues during the primary.

    Joe check out this interview on the NV raid.

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3143234&referralPlaylistId=playlist

    Listen to what Ross Miller says about ACORN he is Secretary of State for NV they uncovered a deal ACORN has to use inmates to work on the paperwork…lol…

  226. glenn says:

    Joe now it looks like the FBI is going after ACORN in a major way. They have found suspicious and fraudulent registrations in at least 11 states. The FBI is confiscating all the ACORN paperwork in multiple places.

    They discovered massive fraud in MO today.

    From what I have heard there is a big story here in regard to the money trail and you won’t guess who it leads back to.

    This is going to be an October surprise.

  227. glenn says:

    Joe have you seen the background around the Socialist party “New Party” that Obama was a candidate for:

    From the October 1996 Update of the DSA ‘New Party’:
    “New Party members are busy knocking on doors, hammering down lawn signs, and phoning voters to support NP candidates this fall. Here are some of our key races…

    Illinois: Three NP-members won Democratic primaries last Spring and face off against Republican opponents on election day: Danny Davis (U.S. House), Barack Obama (State Senate) and Patricia Martin (Cook County Judiciary).”

    In 1999 the supreme court rule the organizations platform as unconstitutional.

    There are just too many dots that connect Obama up to a serious socialist agenda is even farther left than the left…lol

  228. glenn says:

    Interesting read about the behind the scenes on the campaign trail from CBS.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/07/politics/fromtheroad/entry4507703.shtml

    Sounds like McCain is mature, organized and thoughtful and Obama is immature, unorganized and rude to the reporters and more like a college student.

    Probably the most striking comment is that Obama’s airplane smells bad all the time.

    Must be from all the BS he spews while stumping…

  229. glenn says:

    Looks like IHT was trying to get out one last dying shot at the right…lol

    The Times told staff in an internal e-mail Tuesday that the paper’s flagship Web site will soon become host to news from sister paper the International Herald Tribune and that the Tribune’s site will be shuttered. The move will require “hard decisions about jobs at the IHT,” and the company is now looking to “reassign or relocate people,” according to the memo.

  230. JCH says:

    Glenn, is your guy losing? You seem desperate.

  231. glenn says:

    (239) JCH you think I have a guy and those other guys are my guys…lol.

    I just think Obama is a anti-American, blame America first, anti-capitalist, socialist and has a messiah complex and don’t think we need that leading our country.

    We need a crusader not a politician now. We need somebody to commit to cleaning up the mess in our Government and on Wall-Street and quite frankly neither of them have the guts to do it.

    Definitely not desperate JCH – just very passionate about our country and our rights. I don’t like to see people throw away our ability to vote in a democracy. ACORN is a scourge and we need to get very serious about their activities – put a stop to it and prosecute the people in charge.

    You can’t count either candidate out at this point. This is far from over and even though Obama is in the lead he knows McCain usually has strong comebacks by the time it comes to pull the lever. Al Gore had similar leads at this time to and he lost.

    I think Obama is a product of a very far left view of the world and he is a pawn of the power brokers that decided to bring him into power.

    If elected Obama will turn America into a socialist country especially with the support of Pelosi, etc.

  232. glenn says:

    (239) There are just under four weeks left until election day. You should keep in mind that just three weeks ago our economic position was worlds away from where it is today.

    In this day and age massive change can occur and we still have 3-4 major events to happen before election assuming our trend continues of 1 major event over the last three weeks.

  233. Paul says:

    (242) His moniker McSame is well earned. The vast majority of the time he voted with his party and voted with his president. You want 4 more years of the same wretchedly depressing experience we’ve had for the last 8??? Vote continuity – vote McSame!

  234. glenn says:

    Paul are you better off today than you were two years ago?

    Pelosi promised massive change and what did we get the highest level of corruption ever seen in our government that lead to the largest financial collapse in our history and you can point right to Dodd and Frank and their buddies at Fannie and Freddie.

    I certainly don’t want 4 more years of that.

    Anyone that compares McCain to Bush and thinks for one second they are the same is greatly mistaken. Take a close look at Bush because I don’t know the exact date but at some point he stopped being Republican and became a Democratic President.

    It that what is has come for you and JCH – just down to talking points now?

  235. glenn says:

    (243) Paul I can play the lines too…

    Did you see Obama last night talk about drilling for oil, clean coal and nuclear power? Obama and Biden’s record is CLEAR they are against all three. Biden even refer to drilling as raping the outerbanks…Biden pointed at a solar supporter in the rope line and said we will NEVER have clean coal in America – its ok for China but not here.

    Looks like Obama was drilling for votes and not being serious about solving a very serious national security issue.

    Obama is not ready to lead…in fact he is dangerous.

    I will place a wager if Obama is elected Ayers sets up a meeting with Chavez and Ayers will be present.

  236. Paul says:

    (244)-The operative question is not how do I feel versus 2 years ago, it’s how do I feel versus 8 years ago. 4000+ dead, 30,000+ wounded – in a war with no justification? Firing attorney generals because they won’t play politics? Denying global warming? Absolute failure with Katrina? Our respect in the world community at an all time low? Tax cuts that have made that have disproportionately benefited the rich?

    That team has been on the field for 8 years, and McCain has been there with his support the whole way. Throw the bums out. Alfred E. Neuman could do a better job!

  237. JoeDuck says:

    Alfred E. Neuman could do a better job!

    Paul you are dating yourself with Mad Magazine.

    He did give good economic advice though:
    What, Me Worry?

  238. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn although I think the ACORN concerns are more legitimate than Ayers or the Berg crazy B.S. stuff, it’s interesting to me that as Ayers has clearly failed to interest voters FOX is moving to ACORN to see if that will gain traction. The only problem – Obama is NOT ACORN! Sure he paid a related group to register people for him – that’s part of the game here. The abuses by ACORN cannot reasonably be attributed to Obama. In fact think about it – would he risk *everything* to scam votes? No way – does not pass the sniff test.

    I knew this would happen. Rev Wright doesn’t work to smear Obama so they move to Ayers. Ayers doesn’t work so they move to ACORN. NONE of those associations are particularly relevant anyway.

    Glenn above you say it’s not fair for Paul to suggest McCain and Bush share a lot of policy views, so they should not be connected. Are you saying Ayers and Obama have more views in common than Bush and McCain?

  239. glenn says:

    Joe without a doubt Obama and Ayers have more in common. That is why it is a problem.

    Obama has a lot to do with ACORN. The part you don’t seem to get is out integrated ACORN is with the Dem machine and Freddie and Fannie and Dodd and Frank and Obama, etc.

    ACORN is a hopelessly corrupt organization just like Freddie and Fannie and both organizations thought they could break the law, commit fraud, cook their books, etc all because the end justified their means.

    That is the excuse…we are helping poor people, we are helping the blacks, etc…etc…

    Give me a break just because you have an agenda to help a particular group of people doesn’t give you a license to trample our rights or break the law. There is no “get out of jail free” card in our country unless of course you pay lots of money to Dodd, Obama, Frank, etc.

    Follow the money trail.

    And this is the change that Obama promises. Go back and look carefully at Obama’s record – ALL of his votes and do the math. Go back and look at his campaign promises – he doesn’t keep them.

    If you want to vote for Obama because you don’t like Bush that is certainly your right and I applaud you for getting to the polls and pulling the lever.

    Myself I vote for a person that I believe will do what they say no say what they need to steal my vote.

    If you are dead serious about the issues then you should look at the 20+ years of voting record of McCain – I think you will be surprised. If McCain says he is going to clean up Washington and put in real reform, cut spending and eliminate waste – I believe him – he will.

    From my perspective we need someone to sweep the garbage to the curb before we can do anything useful in our country anymore. The politicians have truly screwed a lot of things up and many of the career politicians in both parties need to go they are corrupt and they are spending our hard earned money like it is endless and without prudent fiscal judgement.

    McCain represents that first wave of change. I also think McCain is right about foreign policy and Obama is certainly way out his depth there.

    Just look at the record.

  240. glenn says:

    More ACORN news…How ACORN got me into vote scam?

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10092008/news/politics/nuts__132771.htm

    You guys are spinning already…ACORN has nothing to do with Obama or the Democrats…ROFL.

    You better hope Obama gets elected because me thinks a lot of people are going to go to jail.

  241. glenn says:

    Indiana: More registered to vote than eligible…no one talks about it.

  242. glenn says:

    William Ayers (neighbor and anti-american terrorist who helped launch his career, leader of a group which bombed the pentagon)

    Bernardine Dohrn (neighbor and anti-american terrorist who helped launch his career, leader of a group which bombed the pentagon)

    Larry Walsh (neighbor and criminal under investigation by the FBI)

    Louis Farrakhan (neighbor and race baiting leader of the nation of Islam)

    Reverend Wright (race baiting spiritual mentor who espouses black liberation theology and was his paster for 20 years, baptizing his children and conducting is marraige ceremony)

    Tony Rezko (neighbor and Criminal under investigation)

    The Rathke brothers, founders of ACORN (Anti-American group which funded his community organizing)

    Franklin Raines (Exec of FM, economic advisor)

    Jim Johnson (Exec of FM, economic advisor)

    Saul Alinsky (mentor, author of Rules for Radicals, an anti-american instruction book in which he dedicated to satan)

    Khalid Al-Mansour (Radical who advocated the murder of white people repeatedly, helped Obama gain admission into Harvard)

    Raila Odinga (Cousin and leader in Kenya conducting genocide of opposition)

    Percy Sutton (Malcolm X’s lawyer)

    MoveOn.org (Anti-American/Socialist website)

    Code Pink

    Penny Pritzker(Pro-Iranian Supporter)

    Susan L. Rosenberg (WeatherUnderground Terrorist)

    Mike Klonsky (WeatherUnderground Terrorist)

    Father Flagler (Radical racist advocating black liberation theology)

    American Action Network (AAAN) (an Anti-Israel Group)

    Rashid Khalidi (Founder of AAAN and Radical Racist Muslim).

    19 personal associations with radicals.
    6 associations with radical, anti-american groups.

    So far these groups and personal associations:
    1. Got him into Harvard.
    2. Got him a job.
    3. Got him a home.
    4. Got him into politics.
    5. Baptized his Children.
    6. Conducted his marraige ceremony.

    Wow what a great list of people to call your friends and neighbors. Are you guys serious?

    What type of person sits in a anti-American, hate church for 20 years and then has his children baptized there?

    Dare I say it?

    How many of these poor choices of judgement do you need to have before you realize?

    Create me a list for John McCain the only the Dems can bring up is Keating. The investigator of the Keating scandal cleared McCain in the Senate hearings and stated he didn’t deserve any rebuke however the Democratic controlled Congress rebuked him because they didn’t want to be seen as yet ANOTHER corrupt Democratic action. Even though the esteemed American hero John Glenn (D) as included in the rebuke as well but so were 3 other corrupt Democratic politicians.

    Would any of you be friends with anyone on Obama’s wonderful association list? I would hope not, I can tell you in every state and neighborhood that I have lived in here in the great USA these people would be run out of town for their hatred and anti-American attitudes.

    The Democrats want to call all of this a smear campaign – hey nobody forced Obama to make these choices – this list represents what is the worst of America – hatred and racism and he choose them.

  243. glenn says:

    And if you just want to dismiss this list fine…then think about one thing:

    Obama picked Raines and Johnson as economic and housing advisors to his campaign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Two people that are central to the largest economic meltdown in the history of our country – Obama, what a genius!

  244. JCH says:

    George Bush is responsible for the biggest economic meltdown in our nations history.

    You have an amazingly difficult time in figuring out who is responsible.

    He had the authority – he’s the President. He had the means – our tax money plus all the shareholder money his CEO buddies (remember Kenny Boy) controlled. He had the motive – creating his Ownership Society so as to shatter the Democrat stranglehold on black and Latino voting blocks.

    You act like Fannie and Freddie were the only mortgage companies pumping subprime at rates far far in excess and with looser criteria than required by law, Why were those CEOs being so reckless? The Ownership Society. Fannie and Freddie were two sources for mortgages, At the height of the lending frenzy, there were 5300 buddy CEOs of W. How many are bankrupt now?

    Your list is pathetic.

  245. glenn says:

    (254) JCH good answer…

    Freddie and Fannie were quasi-private companies protected by Chris Dodd and Barney Frank when they both knew they were in deep trouble. What part of that don’t you get?

    It was the legislation of the Clinton administration that forced Freddie and Fannie to dilute sound loan ratios to include 50% bad loans. It was pure insanity. Freddie and Fannie held over $4 trillion in paper – what other mortgage company in America held 50% bad paper?

    It was Obama working with ACORN on a landmark ruling in IL that forced banks to make these bad loans – EVEN THOUGH THE BANKS SAID THIS WAS SUICIDE FOR US.

    What part of this equation do you have a hard time understanding?

    It was a Democratic policy, Democratic Senators that created this entire fiasco.

    I also blame Bush for his entire Presidency – I have never defended him – yet YOU continue to defend Dodd and Frank – JCH it just isn’t going to work – you can’t get away from the truth. Accept it – Dodd and Frank are corrupt politicians they DIRECTLY played a major role in this collapse.

    The list is the list. Obama doesn’t deny it – their history of their actions is well documented and NOT disputed – get over it. Obama is the last person in this country that should get elected as President – there are many more Democrats that are better qualified to be running than Obama. It’s a shame that people like yourself and others just want to ignore his record and somehow think he is going to act differently than his entire life history.

  246. JCH says:

    Even Bill O’Lielly is disavowing most of that nonsense.

  247. glenn says:

    (254) LOL…JCH amazing I can’t believe you want to blame the behavior of Frank and Dodd on Bush…aye yi yi.

    Just so you remember I was and am completely against the bail-out it was a stupid plan to begin with and will not work. I blame Bush for that.

    Don’t forget that Dodd and Frank’s great contribution to the original bail-out was over $700,000,000 to go to ACORN.

    Don’t forget that last September Barack Obama said sub-prime is a really good idea.

    Don’t forget McCain has raised the flag about how bad sub-prime is many times.

    Don’t forget in 30 years from now when a Presidential candidate is up for election and it is revealed that he had an “association” with Bin Laden and served on some boards with Bin Laden – MAKE SURE YOU VOTE FOR THAT CANDIDATE!

  248. glenn says:

    (256) Your defense on the list is Bill O’Reilly…are you serious? Is that all you have?

    Obama has not denied any of these associations.

    Birds of a feather flock together…

    Try something out for me. Go through the list and think about your friends – do any of them look, sound or feel like any of them in the list? Probably not, and then think about your friends and do you think they have any friends that resemble those on the list?

    After you have gone through that exhaustive list you can decide what kind of person we are dealing with here.

  249. glenn says:

    You know the more I think about it. I bet there are a lot of people that are voting for Obama would vote for someone in 30 years that had an association with Bin Laden – that is the problem with the left-loon brained sheeple in this country. Their memories aren’t so good.

    I am pretty sure that no American that is voting for McCain would vote for anyone connected to a terrorist like Ayers or Bin Laden – I would rather be in that group of Americans – I have a lot more in common with them.

  250. JCH says:

    Glenn, how many additional low-income and minority homeowners did George Bush announce he wanted to put into homes during his administration?

    I’ll help you.

    5,500,000. That’s 5 million 5 hundred thousand.

    What is the median age of the foreclosures in question – date of mortgage origination to the date of filing? Around 24 months. How many would there be without intervention?

    Probably 5,500,000.

    Why was Bush upset with Fannie and Freddie? They were lagging way behind his CEO buddies in issuing loans to create his ownership society. They were way short on recklessness. Their plan: they wanted to force Fannie and Freddie to sell off trillions of dollars worth of MBS so they would have loads of cash so HUD could order them to spend it on reckless mortgages.

    Who was going to buy all those MBS from Fannie and Freddie. Answer: the investment banks. How? They had these huge capital reserves. They had the CEO buddies like Hank Paulson, remember Kenny Boy, lobby the Christopher Cox and the SEC to radically alter their capital requirements. They went from one dollar of equity per twelve dollars of debt to 33 dollars of debt per dollar of equity. They suddenly had trillions of dollars to buy MBS from Freddie and Fannie.

    That was what the 2005 Fannie and Freddie reform was actually all about. They were trying to force Fannie and Freddie to sell their portfolio. It was the only point of disagreement. Had the majority compromised on it, that bill would have gone to the Senate floor and it would have passed. It was scuttled by the White House, which wanted that Investment Bank cash inside Fannie and Freddie.

    They figured out another way to force Fannie and Freddie to get just as crazy and stupid as Countrywide, and the reached their goal of 5.5 million new low-income homeowners.

    Like the idiots Neocon CEOs are, the investment banks went ahead and invested their safety reserve anyway . The Iraqis were going to welcome them by putting flowers into their rifle barrels and the money was never going to be a problem because Allayn GreenRandSpam was the can’t miss, maestro of the economy.

    Soft landing?

  251. glenn says:

    (260) JCH so you think Frank and Dodd did nothing wrong?

    Just to make the record clear on how you stand.

    Now let’s talk about how Michelle Obama was an Attorney in the same law firm with Bernardine Dohrn (Ayers wife and member of the Weather Underground) yet neither Barack or Michelle knew Ayers/Dohrn were terrorists?

    After Ayers said it on 9/11 – Barack continued to work with Ayers directly for another year.

    And they are neighbors…GIVE ME A BREAK – Does Obama think the American people are that stupid?

  252. glenn says:

    Joe BTW I was wrong about how much money ACORN was slated to receive from the first bail-out.

    It was billions of dollars…OMG

  253. glenn says:

    (260) JCH one thing you are forgetting…

    Any time a fiscally responsible bank/thrift stood up to CRA and said NO we are not going to get into this practice of risky loans – ACORN and the Democrats attacked and forced them and a liberal judge forced these fiscally sound institutions to throw caution to the wind!

    This is a Democratic fiasco of biblical proportions. Do you think after the landmark case in IL any organization would try to stand up to this cabal.

    Wake up to reality…you must be part of the convict the gun crowd not the shooter. The shooter well he was abused and if he didn’t have access to a gun he wouldn’t have killed anyone…LOL.

    The era of rationalization through irrationality

  254. glenn says:

    Aaron Tippin says it all…

  255. glenn says:

    This is a much better video…for Aaron’s song…sorry for the duplicate post.

  256. glenn says:

    Character matters folks – if we had people in our Government that had character we wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with.

    George Washington wanted this country to be run by people that wanted to work for the Government and not for themselves. George Washington wanted people of character involved in governing.

    Maybe we should go back and respect George Washington’s wishes and vote in charater.

    It’s Country First – not Obama First

  257. glenn says:

    Joe the ACORN scandal is massive.

    They are purging millions of illegal registrations.

    In NV – 740,000 registrations submitted- 715,000 were invalid.

    The names didn’t match the SSN’s and other validation requirements.

    Of course you will see the left try to spin this…lol

    ALL of America should be outraged to the level of fraud that ACORN is perpetuating into this election process.

    What type of politician would want to fund to the tune of billions of dollars a knowingly corrupt organization like ACORN?

    What type of politician would hire ACORN?

    At some point your judgement for making these decisions needs to be questioned.

  258. JCH says:

    It was George Bush’s goal. He stated it openly and often.

    His 5.5 million new low-income homeowners was an aggressive and reckless escalation the consistent and successful CRA approach.

    The CRA was administered from 1977 to 2001 without causing an economic meltdown. Fannie and Freddie did mortgage lending form their creation during the Great Depression until 2001 with causing an economic meltdown.

    Dodd and Schumer opposed forcing Fannie and Freddie to sell off a major portion of their 1.4 trillion-dollar loan portfolio, and capping its size into the future, which would have eventually crippled their ability to issue loans to middle-class Americans.

    The Republicans in the house, and around 90 house Democrats passed a bill that did not force the portfolio to be sold off recklessly.

    The White House and the Republicans in the Senate wanted no part of that bill, and when Johnny “come lately” McCain signed onto the Senate bill after 16 months of dust collecting, he was announcing he was agreeing with the looming catastrophe.

    Try to ask yourself a decent question. If McCain sincerely wanted F&F reform, why didn’t he push hard for the house version, which was already passed by Republican-led house by a wide margin?

    If the Republicans had simply wanted more prudent regulation of Fannie and Freddie, it was laying right there on the table with broad support from house and senate Democrats. All they had to do is compromise, which is what the Senate is all about unless one party has 60 Senators. When a majority refuses to compromise, it means they didn’t want it in the first place.

    101 ways to make it look like you are for what you are against. They did not want prudent lending; they wanted reckless lending.

  259. glenn says:

    Why Ayers relationship is something Obama wants to avoid.

    Ayers recently met with Chavez…

    http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308271974461547

    Ayers still hates America and he believes Obama is the man that can legitimize Ayers hate.

  260. glenn says:

    Great info here:

    http://greatdebate2008.blogspot.com/2008/10/mccains-new-ad-barack-obama-bill-ayers.html

    Look at the photo of Barack Obama who refuses to put his hand on his heart when our national anthem is performed – Can you imagine a President who feels this way? Look how bizarre it looks in the photo – that could be our next President.

    Listen to Michelle Obama yesterday:
    “I don’t know anyone in Chicago who is heavily in education policy who doesn’t know Bill Ayers,” she said. “But again I go back to the point that, you know, the American people aren’t asking these questions.” –Michelle Obama, 10/8/2008

  261. JCH says:

    Nobody gives a darn about Ayers.

    Give a fool enough rope, he’ll hang himself; give a campus radical a few years and he grows up.

    Unless he’s a Neocon. That diseased radicalism apparently last until alzheimers.

  262. glenn says:

    (272) JCH you don’t care about Ayers but millions and millions of Americans do.

  263. horatiox says:

    BO’s association with ACORN may be more damaging. The response to the ACORN/vote fraud reveals much of the left’s hypocrisy, really (and I’m not supportive of biblethumping GOP, McCaint, or neo-cons). The DNCOcrats have whined for years about voting practices and so forth, and now the tables turn with the ACORN bidness.

    The leftist machiavelli-meme goes something like this: “always be truthful, law-abiding and honest in regards to politics, except in cases where you can get away with massive fraud, defamation, and/or misrepresentation, or other crimes which will advance your cause.” See this site for examples of DNCocrat hypocrisy in action.

  264. glenn says:

    Now we learn that during Obama’s Columbia days while he attended and lived in NYC at the time a splinter group of the Weather Underground killed two police officers during a failed bank robbery. The connection to Weather Underground and William Ayers was big news and it was definitely a topic at Columbia.

    So Obama would have to be the dumbest guy to ever graduate from Columbia and not know about this incident. This is in the early 80’s…

    Now zoom ahead a couple of years to the Law Firm in Chicago that Michelle worked at with Bernardine Dohrn who could not be admitted to the bar but Ayers family got her the job at the law firm and Berndardine and Michelle were friends – this happens to be the same law firm that Obama met Michelle at during the 80’s. I am sure Obama didn’t meet any of her other friends at the law firm…LOL

    So now we know Michelle and Barack knew Berndardine and William Ayers all the way back to the 80’s.

    Unbelievable…

  265. Paul says:

    With 3+ weeks to go, the mudslinging is in full swing. Ayers, Acorn, none of it really seems to be sticking very much despite Fox’s blaring bullhorn – perhaps Obama picked up Reagan’s teflon suit at a yardsale….perhaps – after all that has happened over the last 8 years – the conservative right has ZERO credibility left with the American public (see 246 above).
    Regardless, I’m going to do my best to tune it out and wait and see what the electorate thinks is important on November 4th. When we descend to finding pictures of Obama – caught for a moment not holding his hand over his heart during the pledge – and read all kinds of unpatriotic motivations into it, we’ve descended to the level of the laughable.

  266. glenn says:

    Here is a link that is an interview from this AM that is very interesting. It is on Fox so it must be fake and the guy on the video probably really didn’t survive an Ayers bombing attempt…pleeeeeaaaazzzzeeeee….

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3144986&referralPlaylistId=playlist

  267. glenn says:

    (276) Paul…lol…I could be bringing up all kinds of stuff like this…

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77407

    But I choose not to. 🙂

  268. JCH says:

    The Republicans run the ACORN scam every election. It all adds up to stunning immateriality every single time.

    Nobody has said that Ayers did not do what he did. He admits its.

    Your confusion is just amazing. Obama had zero to do with it. You are trying to smear him with it. That makes you look deplorable. Don’t believe me, check the polls.

    All over America you are destroying the chances for Republicans to hold their house and senate seats, so…keep posting.

  269. glenn says:

    Now we learn the Woods foundation where Ayers and Obama (the founding chairman) funded ACORN, they actually funded the Wright Church, they funded Khalidi’s Arab American Action Network.

    Their educational programs designed by Ayers (think about that – someone who wanted kids to kill their parents designing education programs) fought any student or teaching testing, wanted to force students to have to work in community organizations like ACORN and to teach students to be activists (hmmm…I wonder what Ayers defines as an activist).

    What kind of logic is it that says…take a terrorist and have him work on education reform? Sounds like Hamas.

    So these associations that lasted for many years and involved millions and millions of dollars and who he decided to fund pretty much says it all.

    These relationships are much deeper and are part of his beliefs and agenda.

    You don’t fund a radical church, sit in the church for over 20 years and listen to radical hate speech for 20 years and either don’t support it or have it influence you.

  270. horatiox says:

    No, it’s a Demo scam, all the way. I’ve seen it go down in LA, especially around poor neighborhoods right before election time. Bogus ACORN registration (done at last moment) was a factor in the victory of that Dem senator-gal in Washington St, and vote tampering accusations (even brought up by the fiendish GOPers, probably some even…….catholics) were proven to be valid, tho’ the WA DOJ didn’t move on it (one interesting part of Gonzales-gate–the WA DOJ, a Clintonite would not move on the vote-fraud, and so Gonzales gave him axe. So who was telling the truth? Hard to tell, but I suspect even AG Gonzales was on to the ACORN BS and vote-stuffing of Clintoncrats).

    In fact, ACORN BS one reason I ripped up my DNOcrat registration and went to Independent some time after 9-11 (tho’ still voted Kerry, reluctantly). They are a power in SoCal. It’s real, believe me, and even some d-crats have objected. They register some people legitimately, and then, uh, make sh*t up.

  271. glenn says:

    (279) JCH this is getting traction and it is scaring the hell out of you. We are looking at a Carter/Reagan election here.

    Obama has peaked…polls are closing back to a dead heat.

    McCain will win this election.

  272. glenn says:

    (281) What gets me Horatiox is I don’t understand why ALL Americans aren’t furious about ANY voter fraud. This shouldn’t matter who you back or what party you relate to.

    It goes to the core of why our country works. If we allow this it invalidates valid votes and now our elections are rigged.

    ACORN is a bad organization and should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice. It is an assault on our democracy.

  273. glenn says:

    (283) I should clarify…I mean ALL the news networks.

    Americans as they learn about this are going to be pretty ticked off.

  274. JCH says:

    No, it’s a Republican scam. Just before the elction they flood the news with accusations of registration fraud – making it sound like it rampant.

    “White people, protect your women from the black hordes!”

    Then they have investigations and they find a tiny handful of violations nationwide.

    I gave you an example from South Dakota. The Republican Attorney General, as rabid a conservative as walks the face of the earth, investigated all of the multitude of accusations and found them all to be “flat false.”

  275. Paul says:

    (282) – That must be some good kool-aid your drinking Glenn, where can I get some? McCain will win? Only if there is some new consolation prize for 2nd place

    I normally visit a polling site with Democratic leanings, but there is a VERY Republican one:
    http://www.electionprojection.com/index.shtml

    Even he concedes, in his post today, that McCain looks to be in very serious trouble:

    “Overcoming the current circumstances of a slowing economy, an unpopular war and an even more unpopular president would be a difficult challenge even a Republican nominee with well-honed political skills and Obama-esque articulation. For John McCain, who falls well short on both accounts, this is a near insurmountable task. Something may yet happen to propel him to victory, but it is hard for me to envision it. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, hey, I call it like I see it.”

  276. glenn says:

    (285) JCH it is millions and millions of votes.

    Now the NYT tries to spin it stating the purging of these fraudulent registrations is hurting Obama…LOL

    In NV…740,000 ACORN registrations – 715,000 BAD REGISTRATIONS.

    How is this a handful? – you must have very big hands…well actually you have to have huge hands considering the height you must be to still be able to see over the huge pile of BS your shoveling here…

    90% of Blacks are voting for Obama because he is Black – that is called Racial Pride.

    This country is fortunate that 90% of Whites don’t vote that way because it they did it would be called Racism.

    Until we silence radicals like Ayers, Wright, Farakhan and their vitriolic hate speech we will never be able to rise above racism. It is shame that Obama could not have put the country first and tried to stomp out racism in this country.

    There is no room for racism in this country.

  277. JCH says:

    They catch a high number of bad registrations before the elections.

    In the investigations are done on the actual votes cast, and only a tiny handful ever make it through.

    Contractors are hired to register voters. Both parties do it. An unscrupulous contractor, who gets paid by the card, can obviously make a lot of money making fake cards.

    ACORN flags those cards when they find them. They often, depending on the state, are not allowed to throw them away. Once created, they have to turn them in.

    And dearie, Republicans have also been convicted of voter registration fraud.

  278. glenn says:

    ACORN claims that these voter fraud cases are isolated events caused by volunteers…lol

    Up until a short while ago ACORN used incarcerated prisoners to fill out these forms. The inmates were told to take a nam and fill out multiple forms with the same name but different addresses – what is interesting is these forms need to be signed – so how could the inmates sign these forms?

    This is a level of fraud that is unprecedented. But you know what they say if you are going to break the law find a criminal to do it for you.

    Seriously what kind of logic it is that says…let’s use inmates to fill out these voter forms…

  279. horatiox says:

    So the reports in the news today regarding the phony ACORN reg. right now are all part of some vast right-wing conspiracy too JCH? No. ACORN”s a Dem. hustle, urban dems especially—not so much Podunkville ND or NV, but like Pacoima and Oakland, South central LA.

    I will agree the GOP use ACORN fear as part of their paranoia tactics, but that fear’s not without some basis in reality. Lockstep liberals should alarm us as much as the lockstep conservatives. For that matter, the idea that any American has a right to vote as long as he’s over 18 is, frankly, BS. In California half the people voting are hs dropouts, and can’t read English or solve a pie graph. There’s something pretty f-ed up about candidate X winning an election because a few million wetbacks chose X as Commandante (‘scuzi the realism).

  280. glenn says:

    (290) Horatiox I think your posts are classic…lol

    Just like it would be a mistake to have a far right candidate like Buchanan in the Whitehouse it is a just as much of a mistake to have a far left candidate like Obama.

  281. JCH says:

    South Dakota – 1,000s of news articles about alleged voter fraud on indian reservations. Lurid stories. Massive election fraud.

    Investigation. Poof. Nothing.

    Sometimes, a couple of workers get prosecuted.

    In terms of election fraud, it is always a great big nothing.

    Say you fill out cards with the names of the Dallas Cowboys. Somebody pays you for registering 53 voters. To get to election fraud, 53 voters with names like Tony Romo have to vote.

    That is the part that hardly ever happens – according to dozens and dozens of investigations and research done by various commissions and college professors.

  282. JCH says:

    By the way, one of the scientific investigation was done by the Bush administration. They found no evidence of a material problem in votes cast – something that was even close to changing the outcomes of election.

    The system for catching this is sound.

    In typical Neocon fashion, political operatives inside the White House changed the wording of the report and released the alteration to the press.

    It would be lovely to have a more accurate system for voter registration, but one side of the aisle doesn’t want that.

  283. glenn says:

    5 million illegals have illegal mortgages in USA.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/10/09/calling-old-media-five-million-illegals-have-illegal-mortgages-u

    Nice Democratic legislation…

    Frank, Dodd…aye yi yi.

  284. horatiox says:

    Re: 293

    Tell that to the hysterical liberals still whining about FL 2000 and Ohio 2004–that said, FL 2000 may have tampered with: some say to St. Gore’s benefit. Who knows. Villaigorosa’s mayoral victory in LA–more significant than many in heartland realize–was probably rigged too. Skullduggery’s bipartisan.

    Catching the bogus reg. a priori as it were does not negate the charges: ACORN’s a Dem racket. And since Dems often control the booths and election process (certainly in urban areas like El Lay) they are in a position to pull some strings and keep the Feds (or whoever) from investigating.

  285. glenn says:

    Don’t forget the New Party. The third party that’s platform was deemed unconstitutional involving radical election scam to have a candidate be on more than one ballot line. What a brilliant idea.

    Dem: Obama
    Rep: McCain
    Green: Nader
    Lib: Barr
    New: Obama

    Yeah that sounds like a great idea. Geesh…they even wanted to further radicalize labor unions and community organizations.

    You can’t believe who was involved with them and also endorsed in his Senate bid in IL.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Party_(USA)

    The only alternative energy Obama is interested in is electoral fusion and the ability to marginalize our right to vote.

    I can see the next election now…Obama/Chavez ’12

  286. JCH says:

    I have.

    From Nevada, a reasonable voice:

    “Clark County Registrar of Voters Larry Lomax, who has been speaking out about the fraudulent submissions and passing them along to the secretary of state’s office for months, said under those circumstances, there was an obvious temptation for workers to duck into an air-conditioned library, for example, and start copying out of the phone book or off a sports roster.

    “Anybody who decides they’re going to pay people to go out and register voters is basically opening themselves up to that,” he said. Lomax said he did not think there was a systematic attempt to submit phony forms.

    Once turned in, the voter registration forms are subject to a verification process by Lomax’s office.

    People whose forms listed phony or business addresses would have been sent a letter advising them they would be voided if they didn’t respond within 15 days. People who didn’t list a driver’s license or Social Security number that matched their name and address would be flagged on the voter rolls and required to bring photo identification to the polls to be allowed to vote.

    Because of the safeguards, Lomax said he was confident no one will vote who shouldn’t be allowed. “People don’t need to fear for the integrity of this election,” he said. …”

  287. JCH says:

    1000s and 1000s of news stories and blog comments will all boil down to this sentence by Mr. Lomax, who just one of highly dedicated public servants toiling away in courthouses around America:

    “Because of the safeguards, Lomax said he was confident no one will vote who shouldn’t be allowed. “People don’t need to fear for the integrity of this election,”

    He’s say nobody; I say a tiny handful nationwide.

    If somebody registers as Johnny Wad, then some little old lady is going to demand he pull his pants down should he actually show up to vote.

  288. JCH says:

    And by the way, ACORN, and other organizations like it, have successfully registered 100s of thousands of perfectly legitimate voters.

    A you against that?

    Tempest, meet teapot.

  289. horatiox says:

    The suburban DNCocrats–the Michael Moore groupies and Al Gore fans–don’t generally understand what they are signing on to, do they Mr. Glenn. Most of think–naively–that a Dem votes supports some cute, green progressive future with that nice Barack at the helm (forgetting that BO has for years associated with people that a JFK or Truman would have had arrested).

    In reality, the narcisso-crat’s vote supports massive unions (like those in CA, led by Jefe Art Torres), the overglutted CA bureaucracy, and mega-political machines led by pro-immigration Fabian Nunez and El Lay Mayor Villagarosa (ex-maoist, if that can be believed).

    The narcisso-crats are, via a vote, blessing the mexican left and illegal immigration, at least in California and the southwest (CA’s got the most votes at stake as well).

  290. glenn says:

    (300) Amen to that. JFK is rolling in his grave today. I can’t even imagine what HST would think. He would to change one of his famous quotes…

    If it is to RIGHT in the kitchen – Get out!

    LOL

  291. JCH says:

    He, Obama, associates with my father. My father fought in the Solomons with JFK. My father met JFK – even took a couple of rides on the PT boats.

    You don’t know what the F you’re talking about.

  292. glenn says:

    (300) Unions are the #1 reason our automotive industry is exactly where it is.

    You can’t compete with a giant like Toyota who for every car has a $200 pension overhead when compared to GM where they have a $2700 pension overhead. Right there Toyota has at least a $2500 advantage just on costs.

    We can thank that debacle to the 70’s labor stiff-arming.

    You know what else is amazing is why anyone would support legislation that forces unions to have exposed elections. Insane to think that they labor bosses have a right to see which you are voting. What is wrong with these people?

  293. horatiox says:

    JFK hated reds. Obama hangs with reds (or did in the past, and now lies about it). Maybe you can do the inference; given Demo handicap, maybe not.

    Forget BO: a Dem votes for more illegal immigration, and for the Fabianocracy, and the unions, the bureaucracy (including the massive public employee sectors), and for more taxes, even on middle class (as BO has voted). Most Dems are too deluded, or maybe stoned, to realize that.

  294. glenn says:

    (302) JCH my family has had members in the military all the way back to the Revolutionary War. NONE of my family was ever drafted – they ALL signed up voluntarily because we know what it means to sacrifice and why we protect our freedoms and rights.

    I congratulate your father on his service, my father and his brothers were in the Pacific theater as well. My uncle was a highly decorated pilot there. I miss him dearly and I spent many many hours listening to his stories of the big one.

    That is amazing your dad knew JFK – remarkable. I think JFK was great American and a great leader.

  295. JCH says:

    He also worked in Truman’s senatorial campaigns as a volunteer – before the war, and, as a decorated war hero, met President Truman at an event in KC after the war.

  296. horatiox says:

    what HST would think

    Ah the old Ad Gonzonius meme. That works like on DailyKOS
    –spew enough romantic, sportswriter-y BS, put Dick Cheney in a dress, indicate that you’re down wit’ da cause— and many DNCocrats will mistake you for an intellectual.

    Dr. Gonzo, at least before he put a bullet in his head (HST was a good shot at least), had hustled for years, and raked in enough cash to escape to Aspen-town (and rumors there are HST’s hustles weren’t always too PC). Others of us are not as fortunate, and have to deal with illegals, not to say crips robbing an elderly neighbor lady at gunpoint (changes your political perspective, to some degree)

  297. JCH says:

    A significant percentage of the Marines who fought in the Pacific were drafted. There was nothing wrong with being drafted.

    My father enlisted in the US Navy on the morning after Pearl Harbor. He has 7 battle stars, which is more than a lot of WW2 warships.

    I don’t think JFK would think much of the way you think.

  298. glenn says:

    (308) I never said anything was wrong with the draft – my point was only that we have always volunteered.

    My nephew went immediately into the service that Friday after 9/11. He had graduated and was offered officer school and he refused and wanted to go through the ranks like everyone else.

    He rose quickly within military intelligence and survived two deployments in theater.

    Since you never knew JFK or even spoke to him I am not sure how you can make a statement like that. But I do have a very impressive list of significant people that I have talked to and share a similar doctrine.

    Strong government as our fore fathers imagined, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. I am 100% against welfare but support 100% of any workfare effort.

    Nothing should be given for free – it just never works. The bible had it right thousands of years ago – Give a man a fish and he eats for day, teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime. That is such a simple phrase but it is 100% true. The far left has been hijacked with liberals that think fish grow on trees and we have enough trees to just hand out fish all day long.

    You should also be able to keep what you earn – the government does not have the right to take my hard earned money off of my sweat and turn around it give it to someone who doesn’t give a damn and cannot get off their arse.

    JCH have you served your community, local government, national government or military?

    Have you ever been an active member of a charity organization?

  299. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn the 700k problem registration number makes no sense and is not even remotely credible because that is very close to the *total* registered voters in Nevada.

    Voter fraud is a legitimate concern and ACORN is the kind of organization I do not support, but as usual the ties to Obama are….largely irrelevant .

    His campaign does not appear to have any responsibilty for the fraudulent registrations which appear to be small in number anyway. I’m not clear how the money flowed to the ACORN associated groups registering voters but you can hardly expect the Obama campaign to not conduct voter registration programs using the largest group in the country doing that.

    I think thanks to Obama’s large lead, McCain’s has been given a media pass. Only MSNBC – which clearly has taken the FOX approach of fighting advocacy rather than journalism – is reporting much of the negative stuff from McCain’s past which appears to be far more checkered in terms of character than Obama’s past.

  300. glenn says:

    Immigration – there is no excuse for illegal immigration – that is a bunch of horse hockey.

    They can apply and go through the process like everyone else and become a citizen – why is that such a bad thing?

    Why is English such a bad requirement? If any of us moved to another country we would have to learn their language? Most of the international communication is in English – so how could learning English hurt them?

    If they can’t pass the test or don’t want to apply – they should be deported. PERIOD.

    It is insane for the taxpayers to bear the burden of this irresponsible position of letting illegals in on their terms.

  301. glenn says:

    (310) Joe MSNBC doesn’t even pull a 1 share. Salon and Moveon are more relevant than MSNBC. NYT and MSNBC are not long for this planet.

    You may hate Fox but at least they are tackling the stuff no one else will touch and they certainly have the highest rating in cable.

    ACORN will come to light and the full story will be told. The 700k number is valid – however I don’t know if that pertains to just NV or not. The raid in NV was at the ACORN HQ. The money trail is in the process of being exposed. It definitely does not good for the democrats there are a lot of dirty hands.

    What poll are you using Joe? The spread is around 5 and tightening across the board. CNN has it at 8 but has a 3.5 margin of error and was a very small sample size and who they called is not quite clear.

    Rasmussen has it at 5., Reuters/CSpan at 4., CBS is 3 .Overall average of all the polls is 5.6

    So there is no wide margin and a bigger lead for Obama right now only benefits McCain.

    3 weeks to go and 3 weeks ago McCain was in the lead.

    This race is far from over. McCain is not getting any breaks. It is widely accepted at this point that MSM has given Obama a break even during the primaries. MSM even admits it.

  302. glenn says:

    (310) Joe if the voter fraud were not a massive issue at this point the FBI would not have raided the ACORN HQ’s. That usually isn’t a good thing.

    There are more than a dozen active investigations in states. In Indiana, ACORN registered so many fraudulent registrations that the voter registration is higher than the population that can vote…lol

    This isn’t just a handful here and there. This is a systematic approach to cover the 6% race factor and ACORN is justifying it in their minds that this makes this a fair race. Nice…throw democracy out the window. In fact I am sure Dodd, Frank and Pelosi would agree with this nonsense…because IT JUST ISN’T FAIR.

  303. glenn says:

    JCH you want to keep ripping Bush but he still has double the approval rating of Pelosi’s congress…lol.

    Vote them ALL out!

  304. JCH says:

    Gee, do you think the Neocons who have wormed their way into the FBI are above using that proud agency to pull a purely political stunt just before an election?

    I have clearly laid out how registration work is done, why the bad cards have to be turned in (many states), and why almost no bad cards result in illegal votes.

    What ACORN does is legal. They have registered 100s of thousands of perfectly legitimate voters. They have signs up in their offices that warn workers they will turn them in if they catch them making false registrations.

    You have claimed 700,000 bad cards in NV. I produced a quote by a Nevada county official who clearly explains why he thinks none of the bad cards will ever result in a single cast vote.

    He said ACORN quality control caught some bad cards, but not all of them.

  305. glenn says:

    This a great site. Can you imagine a black man as upset as millions of other Americans?

    http://nationalconversation.typepad.com/the_national_conversation/

    Horatiox you are going to be laughing when you read this blog.

  306. glenn says:

    This is a fascinating analysis of all of Obama’s speeches and references to his life.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2196908/

  307. glenn says:

    Reid implies linking Obama to Fannie is racist…

    http://www.breitbart.tv/html/192383.html

  308. glenn says:

    Really interesting take on whether Ayers could have been put in as Secretary of Education under Obama.

    What is frightening is how Brokaw described Ayers? No wonder it didn’t come up in the debate.

    “School reformer” is how Brokaw identified the co-founder of the Weather Underground, the radical organization that, among other activities, bombed government buildings, banks, police departments and military bases in the early 1970s.

    Yeah, right: Ayers is a school reformer in the same sense, as City Journal’s Sol Stern put it, as Joe Stalin was an agricultural reformer.

    http://mattjohnston.blogspot.com/2008/10/bill-ayers-next-secretary-of-education.html

  309. glenn says:

    545 PEOPLE
    By Charlie Reese

    Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits?

    Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?

    You and I don’t propose a federal budget. The president does.

    You and I don’t have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

    You and I don’t write the tax code, Congress does.

    You and I don’t set fiscal policy, Congress does.

    You and I don’t control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

    One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

    I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

    I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don’t care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator’s responsibility to determine how he votes.

    Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

    What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

    The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

    It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can not replace 545 people who stand convicted — by present facts — of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can’t think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

    If the tax code is unfair, it’s because they want it unfair.

    If the budget is in the red, it’s because they want it in the red.

    If the Marines are in IRAQ , it’s because they want them in IRAQ .

    If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it’s because they want it that way.

    There are no insoluble government problems.

    Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like “the economy,” “inflation,” or “politics” that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

    Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

    They, and they alone, have the power.

    They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

    We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

    Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

  310. glenn says:

    Now this guy isn’t me but it could be!

  311. glenn says:

    Now we learn Obama tried to persuade Iraqi officials from agreeing to any troop reductions with the Bush Administration until after the election.

    This is a clear violation of the Logan Act. Can you imagine a Presidential candidate that would want to keep our soldiers in harm way any longer than they need to be for their own benefit?

    Obama FIRST Country LAST

  312. glenn says:

    The Federal Election Commission report show Obama paid ACORN $832,598. There is your proof Joe.

    Obama is as corrupt as Chris Dodd and Barney Frank. They are conspiring to thwart our election process in this country.

    When we have allegations of such large levels of voter fraud and a key state like Ohio – the Democratic Secretary not only created the biggest fraud opportunity in the history of our elections by allowing people to register and vote in one without a photo id – she tried to block having the votes validated – WTF??? Seriously does anyone think this woman is being honest? It took a judge to force her to validate the votes. But this isn’t a wide spread attempt by the left loons in the Democratic party to subvert our election process.

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/09/judge-orders-ohio-elections-chief-verify-voters/

    Now we find out that over 4000 dead people have been registered to vote in Harris County in Houston – this is an old school Chicago politics trick – get the dead to vote.

    Unbelievable if Obama is elected and there is widespread voter fraud tied to the Democrats there will be a civil war in this country. Get ready for your extreme left wing messiah to put this country directly into a war on our own soil. I believe this is exactly what an Ayers, Farakhan, Khalid want – but these startling associations and relationship Obama has with all of them really doesn’t matter. His connections to ACORN, the housing meltdown and the Democratic party have nothing to do with all of this.

    Red dawn approaching

  313. glenn says:

    More information about Obama and his ties to the thug Odinga (Obama’s cousin) in Kenya.

    The violence created by Odinga after he lost his election and then basically took the country by force resulted in destroying or damaging 800 Christian churches.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77508

    Meanwhile in other news you have Farrakhan calling Obama the messiah – seriously…another person I know who has a messiah complex is Charles Manson.

  314. glenn says:

    Joe btw…ACORN still is receiving millions and millions of dollars from the bail-out bill. If that isn’t proof enough of the depth of corruption in our government by Dodd and Frank.

    Pelosi and crew must think the American taxpayer is just that stupid. Unbelievable.

  315. glenn says:

    Not only do we have Obama directly supporting voter fraud in this country to the tune of $832,000 he also has massive problems with his donor records.

    Basically every single point of a campaign where a candidate can commit fraud – Obama has taken it to a whole new level.

    They can’t even account for how much foreign donations are part of his campaign – that should scare the hell out of every American citizen.

    From the New York Times
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/us/politics/10donate.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=donations&st=cse&oref=slogin

  316. glenn says:

    Now the spin about Ayers from the Obama campaign is that he assumed Ayers had been rehabilitated.

    If you go back in history you will see when Ayers got off on a technicality he said publicly:

    Guilty as hell but free as a bird – only in America could this happen.

    Then on 9/11 – he restated he didn’t do enough bombings and he wouldn’t rule out bombing again in his future.

    This must be the new far left loon definition of rehabilitation.

  317. JCH says:

    Nobody cares about the Ayers issue, nor should they.

  318. glenn says:

    JCH another one of your buddies…Chris Dodd…put him on the witness stand!!! He’s a liar too…

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122360116724221681.html

    The Democrats must be so proud of their elite politicians…

  319. JCH says:

    Chris Dodd has probably never missed a mortgage payment. He’s a good mortgage risk.

    The CEO of Countrywide is a Neocon. He is on tape saying he did not have to stretch the rules much to originate a loan to a low-income buyer.

    He was stretching those rules at the behest of the architect of the Ownership Society – George Bush. That is why COuntrywide raced far ahead of CRA and F&F subprime lending.

    You would make a horrible detective. The WSJ is the great Neocon enabler.

  320. glenn says:

    There is still hope…

    This guy is classic and you have to love the Richard Pryor shirt – CLASSIC…

  321. glenn says:

    (333) JCH Dodd was “stretching” those rules because he is corrupt and incompetent.

  322. JCH says:

    Dodd did not stretch any rules.

    Bush has his boys stretch the rules. Dodd doesn’t have an Kenny Boy buddies. Most CEOs in the banking and mortgage industry hate Democrats. They aren’t going to stretch rules for a Democrat.

    But for Bush they did.

  323. glenn says:

    (336) JCH…you are a dreamer and a revisionist.

    Rationalization through irrationality…

    Look at the people in office who received money from this organizations.

    Follow the money trail. They bought access it is clear and simple.

  324. JCH says:

    Access to what? Dodd did not vote the way they wanted him to vote. The MBs wanted F&F raided – because the President wanted them raided.

    And you have made no attempt to follow the money. You’re off running around a tree in which there is no raccoon.

    Bush wanted 5.5 million homes sold to low-income buyers. Dodd wanted sensible CRA lending – the kind that had been done since 1977 without causing a singe negative thing to the overall economy.

  325. glenn says:

    LOL…unbelievable…

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3146431&referralPlaylistId=playlist

    JCH sure it isn’t a democratic scam, just like ACORN, Freddie, Fannie…

    End result: Liberals destroy the US economy and markets…

    Impressive…train wreck….

  326. glenn says:

    More information on the outrageous Democrat voter scam under way in Ohio…finally the courts weigh in. Actually issue a restraining order against the corrupt Democratic Secretary of State in Ohio.

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3146427&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7

  327. Tommo says:

    Um, boys, I’d say “don’t feed the trolls,” or maybe “get a room,” but y’all seem to have the room to yourselves. Just wandered in to see what all the message traffic was about…

  328. glenn says:

    JCH – Here is a link for you to refresh your memory on the de-regulation votes, Fannie Mae, etc…

  329. glenn says:

    JCH – Don’t forget to watch Fox News at 5pm Eastern today as Gingrich is going to walk through the entire fiasco for all of us.

  330. glenn says:

    More for JCH…great video on the whole housing fiasco…as Dodd says is the ROOT CAUSE of this meltdown.

  331. horatiox says:

    On Monday….[Obama] spent $3.3 million in a single day of TV advertising. At that rate he will spend more than $90 million on ads through Election Day — more than all the money Republican rival John McCain has to spend on his entire fall campaign.

    McCain’s ad spending Monday totaled about $900,000 and the Republican National Committee weighed in with about $700,000 worth.

    Who’s the corporate candidate? ObamaCo: dat’s who.

  332. JoeDuck says:

    345 comments?! 😯

  333. Tommo says:

    (346) 346… scratch that, 347. Heisencomments…

  334. glenn says:

    This finally sets the record straight for ACORN. They file anti-discrimination for voting rights suit today.

    The United States government is involved in “a widespread, systematic effort to disenfranchise Imaginary-Americans and deprive them of access to polls.”

    Another classic from IowaHawk – let me say this man is very funny. His series back in the Clinton/Lewinsky days were absolute classics. Enjoy the humor in these days of doldrums.

    http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/10/acorn-files-vot.html

  335. glenn says:

    1 Voter, 72 Registrations – ACORN paid me in cash & cigs…

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10102008/news/politics/1_voter__72_registrations_132965.htm

    But hey according to the Ohio Democratic Secretary of State there is no fraud going on…

    CLASSIC.

  336. JoeDuck says:

    Tommo … 350… it’s an infinite feedback loop! I’m worried I’m going to break all the interwebs with this post!

  337. glenn says:

    ACORN & the Money Tree…more hypocrisy exposed…

    http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/clyne200410311142.asp

  338. glenn says:

    Found an interesting site that has a lot of good information, charts, tables on all the polling data.

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

  339. glenn says:

    The ever evolving stories from Obama…

    Ayers:
    1) He was just some guy in my neighborhood
    2) Then they were friends but not close
    3) Then they worked together but it wasn’t a lot
    4) Then it was Obama didn’t know at the time that Ayers was a terrorist
    5) Now it has come to…well I just assumed he was rehabilitated.

    Now there is proof that during the 80’s and 90’s there is proof that Ayers was still holding his radical terrorist views – so let’s see what Obama says now.

    Then we move on to ACORN and the ever changing “fight the smears” section of Obama’s site. It seems the details about the ACORN connections are ever-evolving as well.

    http://greatdebate2008.blogspot.com/2008/10/what-are-you-hiding-mr-obama.html

    So what is it Senator Obama? Why are we playing this game of depends on what your definition of “is” is?

  340. glenn says:

    LOL – Maxine Waters caught lying last night about Fannie Mae. Amazing when we need to solve the problems of this country and extreme left loons like Waters tries this stuff.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/10/11/maxine-waters-caught-lying-about-fannie-mae-ties-real-time

    When are we going to stand up and demand accountability from these people that misuse our tax dollars?

  341. glenn says:

    Now it is finally revealed that factcheck.org is owned by the Annebergs – yep that’s right – the same people that funded Ayers for his radical educational program where Obama spent millions including funding ACORN.

    Shocker…lol

    Can’t we get an honest answer from anywhere?

  342. Paul says:

    “Finally revealed” ?!? – oh please Glenn, you’re implying they make it some big secret, like they are trying to keep people from finding out. Fact is it is clearly and readily disclosed on their website under “About Us”….along with the following:
    “The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.”

    Factcheck goes after as many cases of Obama playing fast and loose with the truth as they do McCain, if anyone is in doubt of that they should visit the sight and see for themselves. I don’t detect any bias there at all.

    Did you go the Karl Rove school of investigative journalism per chance?

  343. glenn says:

    (356) Paul it is just all too convenient that the message minders all circle back to the Chicago political machine.

    You say Palin scares the hell out of you – but on what basis…yet having a candidate with a working relationship with a known terrorist who said they might do it again doesn’t bother you?

    That a person sat in a church for 20 years to hear vitriolic hate speech on a regular basis that doesn’t bother you.

    That he has several years of dealings with Tony Resko, yet that doesn’t bother you.

    That his website continues to change on a regular basis adjusting his story on allegations against him but that doesn’t bother you.

    That he was instrumental in ACORN getting its early funding and support, that he continues to this day to spend a lot of money with ACORN while ACORN tries to diminish hard working taxpayers of their right to have their vote count – but that doesn’t bother you.

    That he supported legislation that would allow doctors to ignore providing treatment to a living and breathing baby that survived a botched abortion – but that doesn’t bother you.

    That he was the #2 recipient of funds from Fannie Mae the key to causing America to collapse financially – but that doesn’t bother you.

    That he has significant problems with his campaign donations and more and more it looks like it is illegal foreign money coming into his campaign but that doesn’t bother you.

    That he was going to take public money and then decided not to – gee maybe it was because he would have swear that he is a natural born citizen, show proof and sign legal documents attesting that his is legally qualified – can all of these things just be coincidence?

    I could go on for days…

    There is literally nothing in Palin’s past or her performance that should scare anyone. She has the highest approval rating as Governor in this country.

    Let’s all get real here with the real things to be concerned about instead of this I have to support my liberal ideology regardless of who is caring the banner.

    Before this election McCain was viewed by all the Democrats as the only Republican they could vote for. Bill Clinton has even stated McCain would be a better Commander in Chief, Joe Biden even said he would run with McCain.

    McCain is not some far right winger – he is middle of the road and would do quite a bit to bring this country together – it is Obama who is going to fracture this country with his far left perspective and his unwillingness to work across the aisle.

    History shows our country typically is at its best when we have one party in the Executive Branch and a different party in the Legislative Branch.

    This election is about real change and reform and our country right now needs desperate reform on all levels – you just not going to get that from Obama and Pelosi.

  344. Paul says:

    We’ll know soon enough. I, for one, can’t wait for it to be over.

    Palin scares the hell out of me because of her complete and utter lack of knowledge about – well – just about everything. If you can watch the Couric and other interviews where she comes across like a talking Tina doll and it doesn’t scare the living daylights out of you it speaks loudly to your partisanship.

    I’m not the only person saying these things about Palin, there are plenty of conservatives who have voiced similar concerns.

  345. glenn says:

    Here is a video where Obama is meeting with ACORN, etc and states…

    That ACORN and all community organizers will be meeting with him during the transition months after the election to shape his administration.

    YIKES…I don’t think we want ACORN having anything to do with the agenda of our country.

  346. glenn says:

    (358) Seriously Couric – whose ratings are lower even when interviewing Palin then her ratings were a year ago. I suggest you take some time and watch all the Palin interviews and speeches. She is a very smart and articulate person – true she is new to the beltway but given the crap in our government right now we need it. Where is Ross Perot when you need him?

    But if that is your criteria I suggest you watch some speeches when the teleprompter has failed – you won’t believe how much of a buffoon he looks like. People say he is nothing without a teleprompter because it is true. Even during the debates they are careful to keep him on his rehearsed lines – NOT ONCE has a moderator challenged him.

    And then take a look at the 100’s of times Biden has screwed up in interviews and has said some of the dumbest things on record.

    I think it would be best if we all just said – hey some days are good and some days are not so good when it comes to speaking and interviews.

    I think the Democratic Party really blew a chance this year to have a solid candidate. Given the situation in the economy, etc Obama should be 30 points or higher ahead right now and it should be a complete sweep of the country – the fact that he isn’t speaks volumes about his candidacy. If Hillary were running it would have been a runaway train.

    I don’t believe Obama and I think he represents what less than 10% of the people in this country really want.

    I do agree with you – I will be glad when it is all over.

  347. JoeDuck says:

    I’m with Paul on concerns about Palin, especially after the “abuse of power” report makes it clear she has a lot of trouble separating official business from her personal agenda (which was a very legitimate beef with a very bad ex brother-in-law. Yet it should have been handled very differently and shows very questionable leadership skills).

    Glenn I’m really curious how do you think Obama should have handled his association with Bill Ayers. There were many conservatives on that board and I think they had a similar minor working relationship with Ayers – are you holding Obama to the same or a different standard from those folks?

  348. glenn says:

    (361) Joe – pretty much anyone connected with the Chicago political machine is going to have problems with me. It is the most corrupt example of politics we have in this great Republic. It has been that way for decades.

    Here will be the real litmus test when Rezko spills the beans – you watch…every other politician will be tarnished by Rezko and every single one of them will have long-term connections with Obama both politically and financially yet Obama will look like he is the only one that doesn’t have his hands dirty.

    Come on – is anyone really going to believe that?

    Look at the earmark for the $3million dollar project for the planetarium that Obama went for – gee what a coincidence the chairman of the planetarium pledged to raise $200k for his campaign.

    When it comes to insider deals, government waste, risky relationships Obama seems to set new records.

    Quite frankly Joe anyone that would have anything to do with a terrorist at any point in their life and knew they were a terrorist would not want to come near anyone that I know. 9/11 hit hard and I know people that died that day and I used to work in the North tower up until a year prior.

    The fact that University of Chicago has employed him as a professor and he has tenure is unbelievable.

    The fact his wife got a job in a law firm, the same law firm that Michelle and Barack both worked at and Michelle was friends with her is just unbelievable.

    If you saw Bin Laden walking through your neighborhood – what would you do?

    To me there is absolutely no difference between Ayers and Bin Laden. We have a country where you are allowed to protest and have your voice heard – there is no reason or room for that type of action – it is just plain unacceptable.

    I can’t believe there is anyone here that has read about Ayers would actually think there is anything redeeming about him. This isn’t being thoughtful or intellectual – he is deeply aligned with Chavez and other insaniacs that threaten our very existence and lifestyle. He wants the US to collapse and become a socialist country. For Ayers this is much of an issue of him fighting his families capitalist heritage then anything else – he has to be mentally ill and quite frankly if his family didn’t have the fortune that they had he would spent the rest of his life in jail – where he belongs – not teaching and poisoning people’s minds.

  349. JoeDuck says:

    I’m a fan of much of what Ross Perot used to talk about. In fact if we had paid attention to his concerns over a decade ago I think we’d be far better off today.

    But sorry Glenn…. Palin … is no Perot.

    I’m still studying this but it appears to me ACORN is guilty of the opposite types of abuses we are seeing from some GOP cronies who keep working to suppress the vote by challenging registrations, challenging folks at polls, and discouraging rules that make voting easier. My view is that in general these anti-democratic tactics tend to balance out over parties and time though I have not done much research to support that. Given that Bush won very narrowly in past two elections I think it’s hard to make the case that the Democrats are any good at stealing any recent elections.

  350. glenn says:

    (361) Joe in regard to his relationships…

    In regard to Ayers – he knew exactly who Ayers was from day one and Obama is probably sympathetic to him. That alone should give anyone pause.

    Look at Rezko, Wright, Farrakhan, Khalid,etc…etc…etc

    He shouldn’t have had relationships with any of them.

    His financial adviser – Rezko
    His spiritual adviser – Wright
    One of his first employers – Ayers

    Farrakhan thinks he is the messiah – doesn’t that bother you?

    It goes on for decades of the sketchy people he has been working with, etc and he won’t tell the truth about any of them and keeps changing his story and then eventually when his stories don’t work he just throws the person under the bus – that isn’t the sign of a quality person who has good judgment and loyalty.

  351. glenn says:

    (363) Joe you are just using the Dem talking points about suppressing the vote,etc.

    ACORN has a long illustrious career of violating the voter fraud laws and getting convicted. And they have done some terrible things in regard to harassing businesses, etc. Not to mention their lobbying played a major role ultimately in our meltdown yet the Democrats still give hundreds of millions of dollar to ACORN.

    And yet you forget to mention the concerted efforts by Democratic Secretary of States this year that are blocking overseas ballots from being counted – including Ohio – why because those would be our soldiers voting and they are not going to vote for Obama. So think about that – the one person that should be allowed to vote are the troops…but oh no not in the Democratic world…we will focus on dead people, felons and the homeless and we will vote not to have funds for our troops and we will surrender and bring them home as defeated…

    Of course ACORN could then organize the groups of people to spit on our troops when they get home because they were air raiding villages and killing civilians.

    If none of the other stuff works for you in regard to Obama what about the report he tried to convince the Iraqis to hold off on any agreement to bring down the troop count until after the election – I believe that story to be true – the evidence is pretty clear – two people in the meeting confirm that is what was said. Unbelievable.

  352. glenn says:

    (363) Joe it is sounding that the FBI has some very solid evidence against ACORN now. We are supposed to hear more by Wed – we will see.

    14 states are now investigating and at least 4 offices including ACORN’s HQ have been raided.

  353. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn it seems to me that Ayers isn’t the point in all this – few here or even in Chicago support his ideology. Obama does not support him or his ideas any more than hundreds of other folks who have intersected with Ayers over the years.

  354. glenn says:

    (367) I don’t think Obama is telling the complete truth about Ayers and quite frankly you DO NOT launch your political career in the living room of a terrorist’s home.

    Doesn’t it bother you that Obama was #2 on the all time donation list from Fannie in just three years and he beat out politicians receiving money from them for decades?

    Doesn’t it bother you his early and critical involvement with ACORN and now his shifting story and as of today they are now admitting he did do some training there – gee the wonder of the wayback machine to go find the case studies that used to be on the ACORN website?

    Then you look at the housing fiasco – why is it he keeps getting connected to these bad things?

    Don’t you want all the bums in congress investigated so we can get to the bottom of this? Special Prosecutor please – even Ben Stein blames Dodd, Frank and Fannie, ACORN for this stuff and has called for a Special Prosecutor. If Obama is elected do you think they will be investigated?

  355. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn where is info about Ohio refusing to count soldier votes – I could not find anything about that online…are you sure that’s a real thing?

    Are you saying there are zero attempts by Republicans to influence voting behavior or saying that’s fair game because it’s not the fraud we are seeing by ACORN employees? Whenever you have hundreds of millions of voters you’ll have some fraud. The key question is how much fraud and does it balance out and does it have an influence on outcomes. I don’t think you can make a case that Dems will benefit from ACORN – in fact the scandal will cost more votes than any fraud might have brought in.

  356. glenn says:

    (369) The scandal should cost them votes and so should Fannie.

    People need to wake up to the facts and get serious about this election. We have never been at a more critical juncture – just look at our country buying stock in our banks and even that the IMF now warns the markets are still going to continue to tank.

    All because of the housing fiasco.

    And then the spin about De-reg, no one talks about the fact that John McCain did NOT vote for de-reg and yet he wanted regulation on Fannie Mae, yet the democrats blocked it.

    Follow the money trail and it is sorry to where Obama is in all of this – he is just another bought and paid for candidate that is not going to move our country forward.

    If you actually spent some serious time and look at the accolades that McCain has gotten from the Democrats and how many times he has pushed back to his own party you would be surprised. His record on the issues and against corruption is the strongest of anyone serving.

    We need to come together as a country and perform some serious surgery on our dying patient – Lady Liberty!

  357. glenn says:

    Joe the Ohio situation is very serious. The directives put in place by Brunner are very disturbing including a measure to stop the absentee ballots to be excluded from standard verification. This is nuts.

    http://volokh.com/posts/1221409022.shtml

  358. glenn says:

    Joe I think the voter fraud thing is massive this year. Look at the report out of PA.

    http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=14034

  359. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn I researched the Fannie Freddie contributions. I agree those are a stain on the records of all who got them which is pretty much all senators and hundred of congressdudes.

    McCain included but Obama has a bigger stain. The annual contributions were small enough – under 5k on average even at the top – I don’t think they are a sign of any corruption and it’s important to note Republicans got more than Democrats.

    I totally agree that the congress and the Senate failed us as they so often do. Also that Obama is “more” guilty than McCain of failing to support reforms that might have reduced the Fannie meltdown. I don’t agree with you that Dems are solely to blame. I also think Fannie and Freddie failures are best seen as only a part of the big problem – derivatives and swaps are important and people’s foolish house buying behavior is – in many ways – at the heart of all of this.

    But overall it’s clearly a bipartisan incompetent financial fiasco in terms of how the Government should have reacted.

  360. glenn says:

    (373) I am all for them investigating everyone on the money list.

    The reason I am particularly peeved at the Democrats is that Nancy Pelosi made a pledge in Jan 2007 and said this was a call for a new standard in DC, etc…ALL BS.

    Dodd and Frank should go down regardless because it was in their “domain” to care of this stuff and they failed in a big way.

    As far as I am concerned investigate Bush to. Regardless of party the ones who broke the rules, laws, etc need to be held accountable.

    It is time for this to stop and it is time for pork to end – I am not even concerned as much about the total amount of pork it is just how the votes are bought and paid for – that is just wrong.

  361. glenn says:

    Joe take a few minutes and google the following people:

    Frank Davis Marshall
    Saul Alinsky
    Bill Ayers
    Berardine Dohrn
    Louis Farrakhan
    Khalid Abdullah Tariq al Mansour
    ACORN/Project Vote/Mid West Academy
    Raila Odinga
    Carl Davidson
    Wade Rathke
    Danny K. Davis
    Marilyn Katz
    Jeremiah Wright
    Father Michael Pfleger
    Michael Klansky
    Edward Said
    Tony Rezko
    Alexi Giannoulias

    The last guy on the list…wait until you read about him and Obama’s connections to him.

    Remember Obama is a first term Senator and even with his IL time as Senator really hasn’t been in politics that long to have amassed such a list of bad characters. Just brings back memories of Traficant…lol.

    How many bad people have you known in your entire life?

  362. glenn says:

    Paul this is a link to some funny satire about the teleprompter but there is actual video of Obama tripping the lines when the prompter breaks…

    Tell me that doesn’t scare you.

  363. glenn says:

    (361) If you get a hold of the report and read it, let me know. You will be surprised of the actual finding.

    She didn’t actually do anything wrong specifically they are citing an ethics violation because she didn’t do a better job of reining in those under her that caused grief over this.

    Her firing was perfectly legit.

    As far as her low life trooper brother-in-law well who knows but he doesn’t sound like the kind of person you want hiding behind a badge and a gun and she should have done more to get him off the streets.

    I think it is important to remember that she has pissed off a lot of people in Alaska when she fought the corruption and quite frankly it is amazing that there isn’t a ton of stuff being dug up in Alaska.

    When you compare “dirt” there is no comparison between Palin and any of the other candidates.

  364. glenn says:

    You know we should have a rule about being President.

    1) you need to have served in our military in some capacity at some point in your life

    2) you can’t be an attorney

    It makes absolutely no sense to have an attorney as President (CEO of the country).

    Attorney’s always make the absolute worst CEO’s.

    Lawyers can stay in the judicial or legislative branches. The executive branch should have qualified people that are going to be in control of the most powerful military in the world.

  365. glenn says:

    Joe how do you feel about this stuff?

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/10/09/nyt-blogger-discovers-another-lifelong-republican

    The NYT’s so out of touch with reality. How is it that someone can so easily violate any form of ethical journalism.

    Before you say its just a blog…it’s Tim Egan’s blog and has been a writer for NYT for 18 years.

  366. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn the Palin report is here: http://download2.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf

    The findings are about page 8 and basically say she abused power but did not act illegally. This is no watergate, but it is very questionable activity by a potential prez. I think her failure to reign in Todd Palin’s abuses of his high level access is probably the worst part. I also think the fact that this horrible guy made it into the family in the first place is alarming. Call me unfair, but I think marrying somebody is an endorsement of the person. Obama’s brother in law coaches basketball here in Oregon. Palin’s…. drives drunk and tasers his own kid?

    Is this alone enough to suggest Palin is not qualified? No, but combined with the rest of her history it suggests to me that she is a very risky and unknown quantity.

    Glenn I *want* my president to be exposed to a lot of people and ideas, even radical or reactionary ones so he can help fix the problems we face from those dysfunctional ideologies. You really need to read some of Obama’s speeches and quotes – this is a guy who has put a lot of thought into why radical thinking is *wrong*. This is why the hit pieces you are referencing always quote Ayers and others – Obama does not share their views at all and he’s made that very clear in his books, talks, etc. He’s a liberal Democrat. Not my favorite ideology but it’ll be decades before we see the “founders” sensibilities in a major candidate (small govt, small military, innovation, entrepreneurial capitalism, very low taxes, very high personal accountability).

    In fact Obama clearly does not share the views of *any* of the people you listed above, so associating with them is not of great concern to me though I’d prefer he starts looking a lot closer at the more conservative views, especially in economics, that I hold dear. I’m optimistic Warren Buffet’s good advice will help in that respect – he’s a big Obama supporter and I’m hoping will be a key counselor to him.

  367. JoeDuck says:

    Hi Glenn

    Maybe I’m missing what you are seeig but the Egan piece didn’t say it was some sort of research project – rather it’s one of those rambling little pieces where he made some personal observations. I’m not sure I’m getting what upsets you about that. Is it that the person he mentions very briefly appears to be an atypical lifelong Republican and he should have called her unusual/atypical/left wing Republican?

    I suppose if I was writing that I would not have singled her out as somebody who is “switching” votes since she’s so unusual, but we’d need to know more to suggest Egan is acting deceptively. He opened the piece saying it was not an objective review of voting patterns – just a walk down the street kind of thing. If you want a contrived, carefully staged pretense of objectivity just turn to the FOX News Channel. They’ve actually been running call-in or text-in polls and then reporting on them as if they have relevance, when all they tell you is that FOX viewers opinions are not at all representative of the normal US population.

  368. glenn says:

    (380) I get it Joe…you want to compare Palin’s brother-in-law to everything Obama is connected to including his cousin Odinga and say Obama is qualified but Palin isn’t.

    Your hatred toward George Bush has truly clouded your judgment.

    Unbelievable…I thought you were someone very different indeed.

  369. glenn says:

    (380) Joe using your logic we should have thrown Bill Clinton out of office because of his brother…lol.

    I suggest you freshen up on history. What Obama is pitching isn’t anything new…we have seen it before.

  370. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn!

    The Palin Troopergate stuff should be viewed very separately from questions about Obama. Separate issues in my view. Palin stuff is a lot more relevant about how she’ll govern, which is not at all clear, especially in light of all the info in that report. The Palins seemed to be running Alaska’s business in too much of a personal way and that is not a good idea at the US national level.

    Obama will govern as a moderate to liberal. McCain as a moderate to conservative. Many of the people on that list have *almost nothing* to do with Obama – basically everybody controversial that he’s met with have been placed on hit lists.

    I don’t hate Bush. On the contrary I’ve always tried to make it clear that I don’t think individuals are usually to blame in our huge, complex system. I do not like the way Bush has spent recklessly and failed to be a good communicator, but that’s far from hatred.

  371. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn – I just reviewed that YouTube – are you kidding me?

    Wallace became a kook, obsessed with a Russian mystic – the clip is just a rambling garden path conspiracy theory.

    It includes absurdly exaggerated or fabricated ties to the Khalid al Mansour guy. I followed up on that and the whole story is based on a few comments by Percy Sutton – a huge Obama supporter, and al Mansour who refused to say anything. This is like *every single Obama criticism without exception* there is almost no substance here, just hugely inflated guilt by association.

    McCain, very much to his credit, has started to talk about Obama as an honorable and “safe” guy. McCain has the best access to Obama’s backstory of almost anybody in the entire world.

    How can you possibly think McCain would be misleading us about Obama’s past if there were all these dangerous players and sinister plans? Obama’s past is what it appears to be – honorable.

  372. glenn says:

    Joe,

    There are over 35,000 lobbyists that are working in Washington. Our tax code has over 66,000 pages in it. We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world.

    We have over $12 trillion of taxpayer money hidden in offshore tax havens.

    Our problems in our country are not universal health care or community activism.

    We need to stave off the greed and corruption that starts in our government, is enabled on Wall-Street and ultimately flows into Main Street.

    We need a massive amount of reform and we need to truly fix our system from a system that creates untouchable “everything guaranteed” politicians to a system where good, honest intelligent people go to serve for the good of their country.

    So before we can do things like universal health care, all these great green initiatives we need to fix our broken government.

    We need to rip out our grossly unfair tax system and replace it with consumption taxes – not add another 10,000 pages to our existing broken code. Maybe if we had a consumption tax based system then Rangel would even be in trouble right now.

    We need to break the lobbyist system, people say well it gets stuff done, well it gets a lot more bad stuff done than the stuff we need to get done.

    Congress is going to fight this because this will be the single biggest transfer of power back to the people in the history of this country. Our elected officials at all levels have proven time and time again that they cannot do the proper job – even in times of trouble they make sure they get their vacations in, their pensions are guaranteed, etc…it goes on and on it is more like a British royalty class versus the common folk now.

    Once we remove the vehicles the encourage corruption and remove the ability for them to carve special groups in the tax code things will get back on track.

    With consumption based taxes think about it, everything the Government would do is to incite people to make purchases, everyone gets taxed fairly including the illegal money.

    The Government can spend what it wants as long as the economy is good – that is the key. No more need for stupid programs that are protected because they support a special interest group…here is the pot of money this is what you get to spend. You want more then do things the grow the economy.

    All the jobs would remain here, foreign businesses would invest a lot here and we could really begin to afford some of these big ideas.

  373. glenn says:

    (385) The Wallace video was half-jokingly – here is the point – Obama does nothing to clear the questions up. He hides everything – it is just like being in litigation – you have to keep peeling back the onion and find new ways to ask questions to try to assemble answers.

    Why doesn’t he provide his school history?
    Why can’t we see what classes he took?
    What professors he had?
    What friends he had?

    How is it that he never wrote in school but now has two books written? Who were his ghost writers?

    Why didn’t he condemn Ayers?
    Why won’t he explain his relationship to Khalidi? Did he create a way for Obama to get into Harvard – let’s see his LSAT and his grades. Did a Saudi pay for his Harvard education?

    Why isn’t he clear on his relationship with ACORN?
    Why is he spending over $830k with ACORN this year?

    The list goes on and on.

    What questions about John McCain can you NOT get an answer to?

    We can’t even get Barack to show a vault copy of his birth certificate. We know he went to school in Indonesia and was registered that as a citizen of Indonesia and as a muslim – why is that so bad that he can’t admit or talk about it? We have all seen the actual school registration cards for him.

    I don’t think you spend 20+ years around radicals and mongers of hate speech and not be influenced by them.

    He helped spend 10’s of millions of dollars on a program to teach children to become political activists and radicals. How is that in any way helpful to our country?

    How is it helpful to our country to have an organization like ACORN that goes out and terrorizes bank presidents because they won’t participate in bad lending?

    Now we know just how stupid the NINJA loans were…some of us new the whole sub-prime thing was a disaster from day one – yet Obama in Sep 07 said sub-prime loans are a good thing.

    His judgment seems so bad so many times.

  374. JoeDuck says:

    The Obama campaign is acting strategically – if they release all those records there are probably at least a handful of things that can be used against him in carefully contrived swiftboat attacks at the last minute. This is why McCain, for example, only let the press see his medical records for a short time (not sure on details, but I don’t think that indicates McCain’s health is other than he has said it is).

    Part of the problem is that people are not trying to find truth here – they are looking for dirt. The “Vault Copy” sounds like nonsense to me. I’d guess it is lost but revealing that will just stir a bogus pot of BS.

    The ACORN fraud and Obama associations are a legitimate avenue of inquiry – ACORN’s clearly doing fraudulent things. I’d say the likelihood that the Obama campaign had knowledge of the fraud is very small partly since the effect of the fraud – as we have seen – is more likely to hurt than help. Why would they have condoned fraud? ACORN folks got paid for those registrations – this is very likely small time fraud, not some big national conspiracy.

    Glenn you are dodging the key question about the “witness” that *proves* beyond any reasonable doubt that Obama is not a sinister figure: John McCain.

  375. glenn says:

    (388) Joe the main problem with Obama is that he is running his campaign like an attorney would run a litigation trial. There is no desire to seek the truth only to create enough perception so that when the jury decides on election day he can win the trial.

    There are just way too many connections to Obama and to the bad things that have hurt this country. He can’t be cleared of all of them.

    His hands are deep in ACORN and have been for over a decade and his hands are deep in Fannie Mae. Those facts cannot be ignored and there is definitely some funny business going on there and since they were key factors in the melt-down of our economy they should be fully vetted by the MSM but for some strange reason they are not touching it.

  376. glenn says:

    Joe what about Jodie Evans and her deep ties to Obama and his campaign. She has donated over $40k to his campaign and victory fund.

    Do we want this kind of person influencing a presidential candidate?

  377. glenn says:

    http://neverfindout.org/

    Interesting ad videos here…

  378. glenn says:

    Even more stuff about ACORN now the brother of ACORN founder stole $1 million from he group and Wade Rathke decided to keep him employed…

    Obama was hired in 1992 to run a voter registration effort, later became a trainer and then represented ACORN as an attorney.

    Once again it seems Obama is short on answers and on the fact.

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/fund071408.php3

  379. glenn says:

    In case some of you want to doubt whether Obama has worked closely with ACORN.

    “I’ve been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.” — Barack Obama, Speech to ACORN, November 2007

    http://iusbvision.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/obama-sued-citibank-under-cra-to-force-it-to-make-bad-loans/

  380. Paul says:

    One of the major culprits in this crisis that neither candidate wants to talk about was raised this morning on “Meet The Press” by Ted Koppel – us, the American public.

    Consumer installment debt levels have been rising at a breakneck pace for the last 6 years, and were well above historical norms even BEFORE that acceleration began. They stand now, as a percentage of GDP, at levels suggesting a long, protracted period of sub-par growth is ahead of us. We are leveraged up to our eyebrows in a period where the value of the one last piece of collateral that most have, our homes, are plummeting. One in six homeowners are underwater – i.e. they owe more than their home is worth.

    We have been living beyond our means for a very long time – and that has to stop, but that is a message NO politician wants to put out there. Government deficits are bad in the long run, consumer deficits are no better and arguably worse. The savings rate went negative last year, another symptom of insatiable consumers who have completely lost sight of fiscal prudence.

    Some of these people who are losing their homes have only themselves to blame. I readily concede there are lots of culprits in this mess and the consumer isn’t the only one, but the sad fact is you can’t have a bubble unless lots of people opt to play – and we’ve all been far to willing to leverage up for far too long. We’ve been playing Russian roulette with our personal finances and we just hit the chamber with a bullet in it, the result – predictably – is messy.

  381. glenn says:

    (395) Paul I think the overwhelming theme should be:

    Accountability on Wall-Street
    Accountability on Penn Ave
    Accountability on E. Capital Street
    Accountability on Main Street

    Accountability goes both ways. Those that clearly took advantage well they should take their lumps and those that did the right thing shouldn’t have to take on the burden of bailing out all the rest.

    If there is one lesson we can all learn from this. We are seeing our government at “it’s finest” and they can’t deliver. How come no one is talking about how long it has taken Paulson to do anything? Didn’t he have a plan originally when he submitted his 3 page proposal? We are almost a month into this and all level of the government have failed the American Taxpayer.

    We need to look at the auto loan industry and credit card industries as well.

    You hear a lot about predatory lenders and they should be investigated and prosecuted but people that took those mortgages should have known that it wasn’t right. Where is that sense of right and wrong?

    It is very frustrating for the many millions of Americans that have made good choices in their lives to have a huge tax burden in the future to bail-out the people that made horrible decisions and then to add insult to injury lets tank the retirement funds of everyone.

  382. JoeDuck says:

    Paul I totally agree. We are very much a major factor, yet politics prevents this from becoming an issue. You can’t win elections telling people how greedy or stupid or foolish they have been. This inclines the Government to keep pushing the debt and debt problems forward with reckless spending and more massive borrowing.

    Recognizing that pain is coming in all scenarios I want to see more proposals that bring more accountability to the borrowers. I’m not sure what form is best for that.

  383. glenn says:

    It seems the real October surprise is coming.

    It looks like a RICO suit is in the works against ACORN and Obama’s campaign and you won’t believe the Clintons are party to the suit against Obama.

    The RICO action involves ACORN and the “Goodwill donations” Obama has received. Over $228 million in them. They involve more than two people and happened across state lines – that qualifies it to be designated a corrupt organization which means it qualifies for RICO. What is most interesting about the ACORN investigations it seems it has been going on for years – federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald started with the investigations and he continues with it today. He currently heads n FBI team working in 10 states. The word on the street is that the Obama campaign is much more tightly connected to ACORN than previously staed.

    The two factors causing this to unravel are the ACORN investigations – which is now bi-partisan with several Democratic Secretary of States and Democratic appointed Attorney Generals are now alleging a significant amount of fraud put forward by ACORN.

    The second factor is Resko, he is telling the Feds all about Broadway Bank and that isn’t good for anyone in Chicago politics.

    If this stuff is true is going to link directly to Axelrod, Dean, Barzile and Obama. There seems to be some secondary connections to Pelosi and Reid.

    I guess we will all find out more in the next two weeks…can this election get anymore complicated?

  384. glenn says:

    Hey Joe we don’t need to wait for the doomsday scenario from the HRC…Christopher Buckley is voting for Obama – that has got to be proof enough it is all over.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama/

    LOL…you have to love this stuff.

    As Jim Morrison once said “I am going to get my kicks before the whole chithouse goes up in flames!”

    William Buckley must be rolling over so fast in the grave he is bound to start a black hole…lol

  385. glenn says:

    Over 30,000 felons registered to vote in Florida and have been allowed to vote previously.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flbfelons1012sboct12,0,3762352.story

    Luckily about 5,600 of them won’t be able to vote on the 4th because they are still in prison.

    We need to fix our election system – you would think after all the controversy we have had during the last two elections someone would actually try to fix this problem.

  386. glenn says:

    Once again the Odinga (Obama’s cousin) story is making the rounds. I really don’t know what to make of this story – if it is true it surely doesn’t look too good.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kerry-picket/2008/10/12/when-will-msm-report-obamas-support-kenyan-tyrant-raila-odinga

  387. Paul says:

    Another interesting point from FTN this a.m. – whoever wins in November faces great peril and great opportunity. If they can’t turn this around, they go down in history as the goat. If they reverse things, they’re the hero that rode into town and cleaned everything up and saved the day.

    (396) RE: Paulson – if he had been more on top of things and doing his job, we should never have gotten to this stage in the first place. Having said that, to be fair to him – and to all who are trying to turn things around – the velocity this unraveling has displayed has been unique. Like portfolio insurance in ’87, they did not anticipate that derivatives and leverage could have such devastating consequences so quickly. They had a firm grasp on the upside, but too little awareness of the down.

    I find no small amount of irony in the fact that the creators of these instruments have insured their own demise with them, yet am furious we as taxpayers and investors pay most, if not all, of the price.

  388. glenn says:

    (402) You know Paul you raise a really good point about Paulson…exactly how did they let this happen?

    Then as Forest Gump once said stupid is as stupid does…

    What do we all do? We hand over $700 billion to the same exact people that couldn’t or wouldn’t stop this and we expect them to all of a sudden get smart and now how to fix it.

    <– banging head against wall…

  389. glenn says:

    Horatiox this Obama born in Kenya stuff gets crazier every day.

    Now his paternal grandmother states she was at his birth in Kenya. Will we ever get the truth?

    http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=3324

  390. glenn says:

    This article today in The Seattle Times really spells out a major problem. We still have $3.6B in defense earmarks getting through the system. What is startling is the amount of campaign contributions given to our lawmakers from the employees and PAC’s of the companies.

    I think we should block all lobbying activity and disallow anyone that is in a company that receives government contracts the ability to contribute to a campaign. We need to get a handle on this quid-pro-quo crap in our government.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008257178_favorfactory12.html

    Remember in any business that this stuff happens would be against the law…so what is good for us should be good for the lawmakers.

  391. JoeDuck says:

    the velocity this unraveling has displayed has been unique

    Paul everybody keeps saying that but I’m increasingly skeptical. I cannot believe that the FDIC ran no computer simulations that suggested a equity drop would reverberate catastrophically through the financial system. I’m guessing that it’s so complex the models showing problems were tweaked to show “all is swell”. I’m not saying they “knew” what would happen but I’m guessing they knew big shit was coming and failed to warn us properly. Republicans for obvious reasons since they were most directly in charge of tweaking things, Dems because they bear the most responsibility for failing to reign in Fannie and Freddie abuses.

  392. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn let’s BLOCK THOSE DAMN LOBBYISTS. I agree but you won’t like my first choice of somebody who should be investigated for fraud immediately:

    Rick Davis, CEO of McCain08. I learned yesterday he was the kingpin of the Fannie and Freddie lobby – his firm got millions from them, presumably to deceive congress on behalf of Fannie. How do you reconcile that with the idea this is all the Dems fault?

  393. glenn says:

    (407) Joe I have no problem with investigating Davis. He should be along with the rest of them. I sent a very detailed email to McCain requesting that he drop all lobbyists from his campaign – of course it will be blocked by the lobbyist who will read it…lol.

    Hey where’s the outrage when McCain supporters marched through the upper west side and the liberals were flipping them off, screaming at them, etc…gotta love the MSM bias.

  394. glenn says:

    Now Iran refuses to meet with US without preconditions.

    See this is how a really stupid statement backfires for the President – now it looks like Iran is holding the cards – just really stupid.

    Vice President for Media Affairs Mehdi Kalhor said on Saturday that Iran has set two preconditions for holding talks with the United States of America.

    On Saturday, Kalhor said Tehran would accept ‘repentance’ on behalf of the US government toward the Iranian people.

    “Negotiations would be rational if the US moves out of the Middle East and the US government gives up its widespread support for the Zionist regime,” he said.

    Anyone reading this stuff that thinks Iran would ever work honestly with us to a solution is drinking some bad kool-aid.

  395. glenn says:

    More left loon despicable stuff ignored by MSM. I can imagine what MSNBC would say if someone wore a shirt on the caliber stating something about Obama.

    http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/obama-supporters-wearing-sarah-palin-is-a-c-tee-shirts/

    Wearing a shirt saying Sarah Palin is a c#*$&!!!!!!

    Just freaking unbelievable.

    I would love to run into some of these people some day…it wouldn’t be good…in fact it wouldn’t be good if they wore a shirt that stated something like that about any candidate – me thinks I would tear them a new one.

  396. glenn says:

    Joe this is exactly why I am concerned about Obama and his far left positions and he is clearly sympathetic to socialist tenets.

    Here is the lead editorial today for The Toledo Blade pushing more FDR socialist legislation. What is shocking is that many economists now agree that FDR’s policies delayed our recovery by decades and this writer wants even more socialism…literally sounds like communism to me. This would clearly be the wrong direction for the country.

    http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Avis=TO&Dato=20081012&Kategori=NEWS09&Lopenr=809290251&Ref=AR

    Can you imagine that government having to guarantee that you would always have a job?

  397. glenn says:

    Judicial Watch Uncovers Documents Detailing Suspicious Illinois State Senate Earmarks by Barack Obama

    These earmarks, especially the one related to his wife’s cousin, Rabbi Funnye, raise serious ethical questions. From documents obtained from only one state agency, we were able to figure out that Obama was responsible for over $3 million in earmarks from 1999-2002. Not exactly pocket change, especially when this taxpayer money is used to take care of your family and campaign contributors.

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/weeklyupdate/2008/41-obama-earmarks-family-donors

  398. glenn says:

    More about the McCain/Palin mob and the convicted sex offender behind the viral videos that started it all.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/k-daniel-glover/2008/10/13/man-behind-mccain-palin-mob

  399. glenn says:

    Joe,

    I did some research today on Rick Davis and from what I can tell according to the New York Times he didn’t do much substantive work for his lobbying company. The last time he did anything was in Oct 2006 and he spoke to a PAC.

    Additionally he didn’t do anything wrong, break any law, etc.

    As you know I am fully against lobbyists I believe it only serves to bring the worst out of our government specifically with bottom-line performance.

    But when you compare the relationships Obama has with Reins and Johnson, not to mention is contributions from Fannie it drives a much more disturbing picture and MSM is not touching this with a 10 foot pole. Even after the problems with Reins and Johnson – Obama continued to have a relationship with them and they both advised the Obama campaign including Johnson heading the committee to pick his VP running mate.

    If any two executives that deserve to be the top of the Wall-Street greed hit list Reins and Johnson certainly have earned their spot in the top t with Reins easily taking the #1 spot.

    People should take a very serious look at all the earmarks, pork and votes Obama has made. Then look at who benefited from the earmarks that subsequently donated to his campaigns (all the way back to IL) and then see who Obama endorses, etc. It is repeated dozens and dozens of times where he has gotten an earmark or voted on issue that directly resulted in the beneficiaries donating to his campaign or receiving an endorsement from Obama.

    Obama represents the same old politician that panders and promises the world but primarily acts where he receives some form of direct financial benefit. Add the Chicago political corruption ingredient to the mix and we have a recipe that produces day old bread and not the real reform and change we so desperately need.

    Take the time to read his record, earmarks, campaign contributions, endorsements, you will be shocked. You will also be shocked at how many people he has financial dealings with are in legal trouble of one form or another.

    Watch Resko something very ominous is brewing there but we may not see it before election day.

  400. glenn says:

    Another example of rhetoric versus record.

    Obama claims he supports equal pay for woman and men.

    However when you look at his own office staff the truth is somewhat different:

    For every man on his staff that gets $1 the woman get paid 78 cents per dollar.

    Now compare to McCain…

    He pays women $1.04 to every $1 paid to a male staffer.

    Don’t listen to the rhetoric…look at the facts.

  401. glenn says:

    Listen to the this conversation with Corsi and the deep connections between Obama and Odinga – a radical islam extremist. Yet another radical that Obama connects with and helps with his campaign and he is FAMILY.

  402. glenn says:

    More information released about Obama’s influence on ACORN and ACORN’s influence on our banking system and congress.

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3150576&referralPlaylistId=playlist

  403. glenn says:

    According to the Democratic Secretary of State in Ohio there was evidence of voter fraud in Ohio.

    Now according to the AP today…

    Election officials in swing state Ohio’s most populous county have asked the prosecutor to investigate alleged voter registration fraud by an advocacy group under fire in other states.

    The bipartisan Cuyahoga County Board of Elections in Cleveland voted unanimously Monday to ask Prosecutor Bill Mason to investigate multiple registrations by four people. They signed forms at the behest of a community organizing group, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform, known as ACORN.

    One of the new voters, 19-year-old Freddie Johnson of Cleveland, says he signed 73 voter registration forms over a five-month period. Johnson says he was trying to help paid ACORN solicitors collect signed registrations.

    ACORN’s state director, Katy Gall, says ACORN is cooperating with the investigation and would fire anyone soliciting duplicate registrations.

  404. glenn says:

    Finally someone does an honest view regarding Ayers and Obama.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24485226-7583,00.html

  405. glenn says:

    A really good read from someone following the money trail of Fannie and Freddie. It is amazing how intertwined all of this stuff is…

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=AACB1F16-301A-4C13-93C8-32FA87CAB52A

  406. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn you are keeping me too busy – gotta work on some other stuff for awhile but I will follow up. I do agree that everybody associated with Fannie and Freddie should be subject to very intense scrutiny, esp. those in charge.

  407. glenn says:

    (421) Wait until you see the timeline of Obama’s relationships that I have found – amazing stuff. I am cross checking the items to see if there is anything glaringly wrong. One of the biggest revelations is that Ayers was at Columbia in NYC the same time as Obama…coincident, Obama moves to Chicago, coincident…

  408. horatiox says:

    Though Clinton signed the bill that removed the last segments of Glass-Steagal, it was Republican legislation. They put a wall between investment bankers and banking after the Great Depression for good reason.

    Yes, but. Billy Bob Clinton had the final word, did he not: and quite a few economists, even sober, academic types, have argued that the overturning of the Glass-Steagall act resulted in the lending/mortgage crisis, or at least was a “significant causal factor” (or whatever EconoSpeak they prefer). So, as usual, thank demopublicans (at the same time, individual banks are to be held responsible, are they not? blame banks, and the banks’ Underwriters as much as politicians…) . And it might be recalled that Demopublican Obama had no problem working with Heinrich Paulson, Pelosi, Frank, etc. to get the updated
    Bush bailout passed.

  409. glenn says:

    More insight on how things are run (or run over) in Chicago politics…and shockingly another revelation yet another “association” to the radical Marilyn Katz, Obama fundraiser and strategist.

    Doesn’t Chicago sound like a great place to raise a family?

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-mk-bd-12-oct12,0,5393672.column

    PS – Joe did you see Perot’s Reform Party has endorsed McCain unanimously.

  410. glenn says:

    An interesting take on Obama’s tax plans…pretty scary when get down to the details – gives a whole new meaning to the phrase the devil is in the details.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html

  411. horatiox says:

    The conservatives are grasping at straws at this stage, mostly. There may be a few legitimate reasons to oppose Obama–like for his conservative aspects, evidenced in his support of the Paulson bailout, and his association with fundamentalists, both xtian and muslim–yet the conservatives have resorted to their patented Rush Limbaugh slash attacks, which probably will backfire, at least among moderates or independents.

    McMaverick’s choice of Palin was a risky move (if not wrong move), and will not likely pan out, except among Palin-like libertarian GOPers out in the sticks (I respect Palin’s energy and independence, slightly, but her sort of grassroots politics are not likely to appeal to urban peoples, anywhere). McMaverick steadily destroyed his moderate credentials over the last year– so F. him.

    That said, I won’t be voting for BO/Biden (or McCain’t/Palin), but the endless Rush L. BS and choice of Palin didn’t help McC’s candidacy at all. As the soldier shouted to willard in Apocalypse Now, “yr in the a**hole of the world, Capn.”

  412. glenn says:

    Two of Odinga’s biggest contributors…

    Odinga’s MOU – signed agreement with extreme muslim terrorists to institute shaira law if he could get the muslim vote behind him.

    This is who Obama directly campaigned for and help.

    “Friends of Obama” fund raising organization ($1 million) and Gaddafi.

    Odinga lost the election and claimed voter fraud and called for violence. A couple of thousand people killed and over 800 churches burned to the ground.

  413. glenn says:

    Well Obama finally admitted it on the campaign trail today.

    He told a plumber in PA that we had to spread the wealth around.

    Classic income redistribution and even more classic socialism…

    His economic plans today are a joke and pundits on both sides are concerned and CEO magazine gave Obama a D- for his economic plans…

    Sheeple of America wake up…

    A homeless person can’t give you a job.

  414. glenn says:

    Listen to this radio interview of Harlem voters. They mapped McCain’s position on Obama’s name and the voters still selected Obama…these questions are hilarious. Great voters for Obama they really are in tune with the facts.

  415. glenn says:

    Bogus ballots discovered in Ohio – SHOCKER – you will never guess what group is behind it – ACORN.

    According the the Democratic Senator of State there is no indication of voter fraud – WRONG.

    Unbelievable story.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm

  416. glenn says:

    More and more info about Obama connected with ACORN and the ever-changing stories between Obama and his associates.

    Does anyone seriously believe Obama has no idea all of this stuff is going on? Now it looks like he will have to throw ACORN under the bus as well.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394051071230749.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

  417. glenn says:

    You have to love the hypocrisy of the left. To listen to the left and MSM media today talking about the crowds at the McCain/Palin rallies you would think liberal never say anything bad. We have seen the disgusting shirts worn by Obama supports, saw the peaceful McCain group walking through the upper west side being accosted by the left loon goon squad.

    But it goes even deeper…zoom back to 1995 when Newt Gingrich was scheduled to address a meeting of country commissioners at the Washington Hilton and ACORN decided to show up. 500 protesters stormed the Hilton and caused the speech to be canceled – of course the MSM never reported back then that they protesters where calling for Newt’s head and wanted to nuke him. That is all reasonable because Newt doesn’t look, feel or smell left.

    Anyway read this article about the ACORN disease and its Democratic allies helped build the mortgage disaster.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10132008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/spreading_the_virus_133375.htm

  418. glenn says:

    This summary is from the Kurtz Post article referenced above.

    HOW does Barack Obama fit into all of this? Obama has been a key ally of Chicago ACORN going back to his days as a community organizer.

    Later, as a young lawyer, he offered leadership training to the activists who were forcing Chicago banks into high-risk subprime loans. And when he made it on to the boards of Chicago’s Woods Fund and the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, he channeled money ACORN’s way.

    Obama was perfectly aware of ACORN’s intimidation tactics – indeed, he oversaw a Woods Fund report that boasted of managing to fund the radical group despite its shocking behavior.

    And as a lawmaker, in Illinois and in Washington, he has continued to back ACORN’s leglislative agenda.

    ACORN’s high-pressure tactics live on. And congressional Democrats are still covering for ACORN, funneling it money and doing its legislative bidding. ACORN also continues its shady ways, using a vast network of technically separate but in fact quite interconnected organizations to evade federal laws on the politicized use of government money.

    Perhaps most disturbing of all, the Obama campaign appears to have little more regard for freedom of speech than Reps. Kennedy or Waters did when they backed up ACORN’s thugs in 1995. The campaign actually practices ACORN-style tactics, sending out “action wires” that call on supporters to block Obama critics from radio appearances (a tactic once applied to me) and demanding legal actions against unfriendly political advertisers.

    As a presidential candidate, Obama promises a massive national-service program closely allied with the nonprofit sector. He wants to remove “barriers for smaller nonprofits to participate in government programs.”

    In other words, he plans a massive effort to funnel America’s youth into volunteer work alongside the likes of ACORN. So Obama’s favorite community organizers may soon be training your child.

    ACORN’s alliance with the Democratic Party is at the root of the current financial meltdown. And Barack Obama has stayed true to ACORN’s ways.

    Pretty soon, the folks who poured into the Washington Hilton to shut down Speaker Gingrich in 1995 may no longer need to take over the microphone. They’ll be in charge of it.

  419. glenn says:

    This is the most disturbing and frightening thing I have heard yet. Jesse Jackson talking about the future of America with Obama as President.

    His position on Israel is just completely out of touch, Jesse says we must heal the wounds in the world that America has caused…another apologist who wants to blame America first.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_o_jesse_knows_133450.htm

  420. glenn says:

    More and more truth emerging about Obama, his actual relationship with ACORN and his radical beliefs on transforming America into a socialist country.

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=308790381199062

  421. horatiox says:

    Phresh wingnuttery for you, Herr Glennster:

    http://www.nationalenquirer.com/obama_sex_perv_scandal/celebrity/65575

    “””The National Enquirer now suggests Barack Obama had an underage, gay affair with a pedophile. Yup. That Frank Marshall Davis guy Barry says was his good friend? Turns out he was a perv of the first order and liked young boys.

    Yowza. Barry, hon, take it for the Peoples! Probably standard issue rightist BS, but BO does admit to respecting Comrade Davis (old CP-USA hack, like BO’s mama)

  422. glenn says:

    (436) lol…amazing Horatiox…

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/obamas_no_preconditions_pledge.html

    This is a little more scary than Obama’s personal preferences…

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/10/samantha_power_uncut.html

    This is our future foreign policy view…I am impressed.

  423. glenn says:

    (436) But you know Horatiox none of these despicable people in Obama’s life had any influence on who he is or what he believes…unbelievable…

  424. glenn says:

    Think about this…

    Hillary Clinton on the supreme court…

  425. glenn says:

    (436) Horatiox looks like your going to get your answers tomorrow. The courts denied Obama’s motion to squash the discovery items. Obama has until tomorrow to produce a vault copy of his birth certificate.

    He also has to answer all of Berg’s inquiries.

    Here is the lastest motion ruling…

    http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/18/0.pdf

  426. glenn says:

    LOL…Warner Bros delays release of movie showing McCain in a positive manner until after the election – SHOCKER…

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6056814.html

    I hope conservatives start to boycott Hollywood and MSM…it has come to the level of absurdity and hypocrisy that could only be topped by a Hollywood movie!

  427. glenn says:

    Good news in Ohio tonight. The full 6th Court of Appeals has upheld the earlier ruling that Brunner (D) has to use other standard government records to validate the registrations of new voters in Ohio – including all of those in the same day register and vote group.

    They have two days to get it all down now. Next week they start opening the ballots and counting the votes – it is important to get them validated now because once the ballot is outside the envelope there is no way to determine person/address etc of the ballot.

    Hopefully they will keep count of the fraudulent votes so we can all know what went on here.

  428. glenn says:

    BREAKING NEWS…

    Joe Duck actually hits the campaign news!!! Watch Joe get credit for this election cycle. Way to go Joe!

    http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=370617&altf=Kpf1&altl=Evdl

  429. glenn says:

    Now the Mahoney scandal…where is the MSM outrage?

    Hush money, sex, with an employee and possible law breaking plus you have HDC Chairman Rahm Emanuel (D) who knew about it over a year ago and tried to cover it up to “protect his career”. Ironically some of the same people who tried to help Mahoney bury this thing are the same people that went after Foley along with the help of the MSM – they couldn’t stop talking about.

    Mahoney ran against Foley on a platform of family values to beat Foley during the scandal.

    Now Foley needed to go he was a scumbag but so is Mahoney and Emanuel should be tossed as well.

    Of course JCH will chime in and say Bush paid Mahoney to have sex with his staffer and de-regulation was the cause for Emanuel trying to cover this up.

    Can there be another more fine example of the skew MSM provides on what is really happening in our country?

    Don’t you feel ripped off that you are not allowed to see the issues objectively so you can make up your own mind?

    Or do you need the government and left wing MSM make it up for you?

  430. JoeDuck says:

    Hey, thx for the video excitement Glenn!

    I *promise* to lower your taxes.

    Frontline has an excellent review of the rise of McCain and Obama onto the national scene.

  431. glenn says:

    Schumer aye yi yi…he is such a brilliant man…

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121607771017452513.html

  432. glenn says:

    Even CNN is forced now to discuss the Obama ACORN relationship and confirms Obama was a trainer for ACORN, etc…

    Even though Wolf does his best to try to come to the aid of Obama by inserting “was it a third party that contracted with ACORN” but Drew sets him straight.

    Drew also stated at an ACORN event at least half the ACORN staff had ACORN for Obama shirts on and he summarized that any notion that ACORN is non-partisan is simply not true.

    They get their tax money because they are supposed to be non-partisan and they have received many millions of taxpayer dollars over the year.

    The facts also show that the ACORN subsidiary has the same address as ACORN and it has been proven that the subsidiary uses the same personnel as ACORN.

    Lastly the statement that Obama just used ACORN in the primary is a false statement – another way of Obama adjusting his relationship statement to buy time. Other news networks are showing that Obama just recently paid ACORN significant money.

    The ever evolving story about Obama. Who is Barack Obama?

  433. glenn says:

    Once again Nancy Pelosi connected to FARC terrorists and Hugo Chavez. A Columbian associate of Nancy Pelosi has been linked through emails to FARC and Chavez.

    But hey just because the USA considers FARC to be a terrorist state far be it for us in the taxpayer class to be worried that the speaker of the house could be helping them.

    Next we will learn Pelosi has been working with Ayers on meetings with Chavez without pre-conditions. Considering the hidden agenda of the far left in this country is totally makes sense that Obama would meet with Chavez without pre-conditions.

    It was just in July that Pelosi tried to affect her own foreign policy by trying to arrange for swaps of captured terrorists for hostages held by FARC – Jim McGovern (D) worked with her on that – oh yeah didn’t McGovern run on pretty much the same premise as Obama is today.

    In fact if you go back and look at Obama’s ideas they bear a strikingly resemblance to those same bad ideas of almost 40 years ago put forth by McGovern.

    The more I research the “lost causes” campaign of McGovern the more I see the blueprint behind Obama.

    Why can’t the far left come up with anything new and exciting?

    First they tank our economy (probably on purpose) and try to ride in a wave of government control to save the day.

    The ultimate wag the dog!

    I wonder how different Pelosi’s speech will be in Jan 2009 than it was in 2007…maybe this time she will tell the truth…we will be most spendthrift congress in the history of our country, we will be most tax levying congress in the history of the world…we will change Mount Rushmore and put Barack up there – of course Ayers will blow up the George Washington first to make room.

  434. glenn says:

    ACORN runs the public school system in Illinois. 64 schools, supported by the Obama foundation, school doctrine by Bill Ayers.

    Urban school teacher turnover is a problem and the national average is 15.7%, Obama’s ACORN Radical School of teaching has 25% turnover rate.

    How many people knew ACORN had that much influence over 64 public schools?

    But Obama has nothing to do with ACORN and Obama doesn’t support Ayer’s view except for the radicalization doctrine put forth by Ayers and taught in ACORN schools.

    But of course only an Obama influenced systemization of schools would rationalize their turn-over and I quote:

    “teacher turnover is healthy, as it signifies that ineffective teachers are leaving and schools are not stagnating”

    Actually it problems means that the teachers realized they were no longer teaching in America and left to go teach in an American school.

  435. glenn says:

    Now we here Mahoney had another affair but of course the MSM isn’t reporting it.

    CBS News is the only site with a reference and of course they coach the headline as: Fla. Congressman Reportedly Had 2 Affairs.

    But of course there is no bias.

    Those that support the liberal you must feel good how we continue to lower the bar…

    1) Now we accept terrorist because they are liberal
    2) Now we accept Congressman who run on a family values campaign and wins and then has 2 affairs but it is ok because he is liberal
    3) Now we accept voter fraud because it is better than voter suppression and oh yeah it is because is helps the liberals
    4) Now we accept radical teaching of children in our public schools because it is liberal

    You can’t make this stuff up…

  436. horatiox says:

    ACORN works with some “schools” in LA ‘hoods. Teachers who work in those area–like watts, compton, torrance, eastside, etc.—earn about double what they do in suburban areas.

    Admittedly, conditions in the schools in the ‘hood have improved a bit, since metal detectors are installed on each doorway; some teachers work behind plexiglas, and an LAPD goon usually posts up, like near the hoops. With some kevlar, and a good helmet, and a 9mm in your coat, you’re good to go for about $200 a day, at ACORN-Tech. Forget the liberal yoplait suckers in the bay or westside ‘burbs: the sc ‘hoods be BO’s peoples.

  437. glenn says:

    (451) Horatiox…what does that tell you about urban schools and Ayers radical teachings? It doesn’t surprise me when you want students to opposes authority and become bombers (ah er, I mean political activists).

    But of course the left will blame something else. This problem all started with the left housing projects…disaster to begin with and it has miserably failed. All they have done is continue to hurt the people they were supposed to help.

    Pretty soon they will have to start handing out guns to students for their own protection but take all the guns from middle and upper class…so they redistribute the wealth themselves.

    We have amazing problems in this country and Obama wants to continue trying ideas and programs that failed over 40 years ago but he wants to bring them back in vogue…this time we know what to do…we can do it water boy!…yeah that’s the ticket.

    They should take a close look at poor immigrants that flock to the country with nothing and see what they do…they expect nothing from the government, work their butts off and work together and achieve phenomenal success…it’s the American dream.

    The plumber in Ohio said it best…Barack Obama’s plan isn’t the American Dream….

  438. horatiox says:

    BO-ocracy looks a lot like welfare-state liberalism, ala Billy Bob Clinton; Escalades for the Peoples! Put some of these bay-area liberal Al Gore groupies (lile Al, most of ’em made it because of a rich daddy) in a ‘hood near Section 8 crackhouses, or in an eastside barrio for a few months and they’d rip up their DNC reg., start reading Mein Kampf, and ink swastikas on themselves and their children.

    That said, I’m not supporting either Obama or McCaint. Neither is Dr. Ron Paul–maybe a quack but not completely wrong.

  439. glenn says:

    (453) Here is a story about Bill Ayers and her relationship with Ayers in the 1960’s. He had a dramatic impact on her life. Caution: There is some graphic language in the article.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=9E8CD8A7-E90B-4311-8AA9-AEFD014A14B2

    Bill Ayers what a nice guy.

  440. glenn says:

    WOW read this article from Glenn Beck.

    Did you hear about the mortgage bill that was signed over the summer that actually gives ACORN 4% of the mortgage…WTH!!!!

    Dodd and Frank wanted to give at least 20% of the additional funds to ACORN from the original bail-out…lol.

    http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/16766/

    No wonder our country is sinking fast…

  441. glenn says:

    Justifiable homicides at highest in more than a decade. What is interesting is the graph data and the trend between justified shootings of police and citizens (self-defense) is almost identical.

    Of course Barack and Pelosi will want to pry our guns from our cold dead fingers and redefine justifiable homicide as that when a liberal shoots you, takes your money and redistributes it.

    LOL…

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-14-justifiable_N.htm

    It is obvious that more than ever we need more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens. Remember criminals don’t register firearms.

  442. glenn says:

    Interview with ACORN trainer who implicates the leadership within ACORN is directing their volunteers to do exactly what they are doing – voter fraud.

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3152572&referralPlaylistId=playlist

  443. glenn says:

    Horatiox…you may have really stumbled onto something with this birth certificate business. Obama didn’t produce the necessary documents and now 9 other attorney’s have file motions for Judge Surrick to review.

    He will have to respond to them before the election.

    Also it is coming to light that Obama will not produce a certified birth certificate, nor will he produce his passport.

    Plus all his college records have been seals for some bizarre reason – Joe you have to admit something doesn’t feel right about the secrecy of these documents that he should have no problem producing.

    BTW…I have seen an actual Hawaii birth certificate from the time period when he was born and it looks nothing like the one Obama has put on his website…strange indeed.

  444. glenn says:

    Horatiox did you see this analysis of his birth certificate?

    These guys are crazy…

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

    So Joe if we find out that he was actually born in Kenya and not in Honolulu should he be allowed to run for President?

    Keep in mind if he was born and Kenya and proves somehow that he still is a natural citizen but this certificate is a forgery…should we let him run for President?

  445. glenn says:

    Horatiox do you have any information regarding the countries Obama visited in 1981? Supposedly there is at least one he visited that wouldn’t allow Americans with US passport in.

    This is actually interesting hopefully it isn’t true – this would be horrible for our election process.

  446. horatiox says:

    Also it is coming to light that Obama will not produce a certified birth certificate, nor will he produce his passport.

    Plus all his college records have been seals for some bizarre reason – Joe you have to admit something doesn’t feel right about the secrecy of these documents that he should have no problem producing.

    Yes, that’s all a bit strange–even slightly Orwellian. The DNC wields a great deal of power, of course, and they can in DNCocrat tradition, make some sh*t up. The transcript situation was what initially bothered me (some reporters back east, even big-name liberal sorts, could not access BO’s college records, as they had done with Bush, Kerry, McCain, etc.).

    McCain was not bad, really. Tough, no frills, sort of Eisenhower-y. Not pretty, but he’s not trying to take my money, either. Boy Obama, on the other hand, sounds (and looks) about like he just got in from a swinging Boston soiree with the Kennedys or Kissinger or something. A consumate bureaucrat.

  447. glenn says:

    (462) This issue hasn’t been resolved yet. There are a lot of unanswered questions and still no “vault” copy of his birth certificate.

    Who is Barack Obama really?

  448. glenn says:

    Today you can see the clear liberal bias within the media. Unbelievable people like Diane Sawyer trying to convince people that Joe the Plumber is some type of fraud.

    This guy is America and he is currently the biggest threat to Obama’s victory. Contrary to what Biden says…Most Americans don’t think higher taxes equates to higher Patriotism.

  449. glenn says:

    Proof McCain will win…LOL…I love these secondary events that fall in line with the election results…

    Cindy’s cookie recipe beat Michelle’s recipe and the last four Presidential elections were in line with the election results.

    http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/10/thats_the_way_t.html

  450. horatiox says:

    The routine references to polls (“Obama has commanding lead among grocery store clerks in Peoria” etc.) seems rather manipulative. Note that the big name sites–MSN, Yahoo, google, etc.— feature a lot of pro-Obama, and anti-McCain blurbs.

    Obama’s on the A-list, regardless if his pro-union, corporate socialist policies will most likely damage the private sector economy (at least middle class sorts). He’s raised taxes consistently as IL senator, and not just on the very wealthy, but on middle income and small business (including some “profit taxes” that will put many out of work, if implemented nationally).

    The cool corporate people don’t care about that, however: BO’s cute and cuddly, and attends par-tays with the likes of the Kennedys, Soros, Buffett or the Grateful Dead, Inc. BO speaks well, and has actor-celebrity type vibe. McCain, not cute or cuddly, stands for something the contemporary consumer doesn’t really care for–the Eisenhower sort of patriotism that college people are taught to dislike as soon as they hit their first sociology class. Regardless, he’s not trying to take my money.

  451. glenn says:

    Biden doesn’t know how to count…

    He is such a dweeb. But he did manage to spell out JOBS

    JoeObamaBS

    He got that right…

    Biden should get his own bloopers show.

  452. JoeDuck says:

    For the record I do think it’s odd that the Obama campaign is resisting some of the info requests,, though I think it’s for the reasons I said before – birth Certificant has probably been long lost and Passport and other records will show the Pakistan visit and Obama’s extensive overseas history which will be used against him in ads and by the many right wing “hit piece” bloggers who have no interest in the truth of the matter – rather in “getting” Obama.

    If bloggers were acting more responsibly and reporting thing more objectively I’d hold the campaigns to a different standard, but because every piece of Obama info is sliced and diced to support the idea he’s a non-resident / terrorist / etc it’s no wonder they are not all that forthcoming.

  453. glenn says:

    (468) Joe like the DailyKOS…calling Joe the dumbass Plumber…lol

  454. glenn says:

    (468) Hypothetical…

    What if we found out that Obama, Ayers and Khalidi all meet at Columbia in NYC?

    What if we found out that Al-Mansour helped Obama get into Harvard Law and subsequently helped pay for his tuition?

    Lastly what if we found out his grades were not that good or his LSAT would not have qualified him for Harvard Law?

    Would any of those or all of them change your view on Obama?

    I think those are the issues here and I think they are highly relevant considering this “evidence” that suggests this even if a young Obama was cynical.

  455. Paul says:

    (470) Yeah, right, and the Apollo moon missions were faked, that was really the desert in Arizona; LBJ fired the shots from the grassy knoll; the Holocaust never happened and Bigfoot really exists !!!

    Desperate people try desperate things, but this is getting beyond ridiculous. You’ve been watching Fox news too much.

  456. glenn says:

    (471) I didn’t get any of that from FOX News. FOX News at least to my knowledge hasn’t reported on any of this.

    I got it by following the trail from Horatiox and I think Obama is definitely hiding something significant from that part of his life and I quite frankly don’t understand why.

    Joe…it isn’t Pakistan that is the question on travel, it is Iran, etc things he mentioned in his book.

  457. glenn says:

    (471) Why didn’t Obama take the high road last night and repudiate Lewis’s comments? He could have but he didn’t…Obama never does.

    McCain continually takes a stand for what is right and speaks his mind.

    If there are racial problems in this election it won’t be because of McCain it will be because of the race card playing liberals. I find it personally disgusting and way way out of bounds.

    The entire Senate should rebuke Lewis and Murtha for starters and Obama should publicly rebuke the Scranton Times-Tribune and the writer should be fired.

    But they won’t because the Democratic party is a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to racism. Senator Byrd is a perfect example.

  458. glenn says:

    (471) The most disgusting part of the liberal left is their hypocritical view of Americans…

    The slash job the Obama campaign and MSM media is doing to Joe Wurzelbacher is unbelievable.

    All this guy did was ask Obama a real and reasonable questions and the liberals are pissed that Obama just happened to mess up and tell the truth about his plan – we need to spread the wealth around. Where is the outrage?

    If he were black he would be called Uncle Tom…it really is outrageous and to see Couric and Sawyers try to “gotcha” him was over the top.

    The best part of this – this is going to backfire on Obama in a huge way. People are seeing why through the MSM liberal BS and just watch the polls…the most accurate polls are showing a 3 point or less race now.

    I can imagine what people would be saying if a homeless, drug addict felon came up and asked a question…

  459. JCH says:

    There has to be a pill that can help him. No?

  460. Paul says:

    (470) Obama graduated Harvard Law magna cum laude – you really think he faked his Lsats and achieved that ?!?

    McCain, meanwhile, was near the bottom of his graduating class at the Naval Academy.

  461. JCH says:

    How DID the Naval Academy find guys who could finish lower?

  462. glenn says:

    CNN shows there class…guess the Palin t-shirts have more meaning in the liberal left than previously thought.

    (476) We don’t know Paul – that’s the point. He is least experienced person to ever run for President and he is literally the only candidate running for President that we know nothing about his college days, grades, his thesis, etc…

    It is now known that Ayers, Khalidi and Obama were all at Columbia in NYC at the same time…what are the odds they are there at the same time and then all in Chicago.

    I think Obama’s thesis would be quite damning but we will never know…

    Absurd to think you would vote for someone without knowing everything you should possibly know. This is the most important vote anyone can ever make.

    If he had nothing to hide…then why hide it.

    The patterns with Obama are very disturbing..

    Signs an agreement (contract) with McCain about public funds – then breaks the agreement…

    Says he will debate John McCain anywhere, anytime, anyplace and then doesn’t do it…

    Has all kinds of relationships with people who would never survive even one day outside of Farrakhan village…

    They can’t produce a vault copy of his birth certificate – that makes no sense – Hawaii has them…the originals are all kept.

    And for some strange reason because it is Obama you will give him a pass…if McCain was doing these same exact things you would have a completely different story.

    For me…regardless of candidate/party it would be the same.

  463. glenn says:

    (476) And Paul if you look at the amazing history and record of putting our country first over decades it goes to show that your actual grades may not play that big of a role.

    I can imagine if McCain had a friend who was feature on the cover of a publication standing on top of the American flag…geesh…

    If you guys hate your country and its symbols so much move to another country.

  464. glenn says:

    At 6pm EST…why don’t you tune in and become enlightened…

    http://instantteleseminar.com/?eventid=4628010

  465. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn that’s Jerome Corsi who simply writes to discredit Democrats. First Kerry, now Obama. His “research” is very suspect to me and his titles are *extremely* misleading as you can see at WorldNetDaily.

  466. glenn says:

    (481) Joe he is a constitutionalists…he has ripped McCain for years. He hates everyone…lol.

    But what he does say about Odinga and Kenya is fascinating.

    There are some pretty serious things that need to be answered.

  467. glenn says:

    (481) Joe I think it is pretty serious the connection that is emerging between Odinga and Obama. Now all the records of Obama are sealed in Kenya.

    http://smithfiles.com/2008/08/14/breaking-photo-documents-barry-soetoro-obama-indonesian-citizen-muslim-religion/

    These documents which were published by AP show clearly that Obama was an Indonesian citizen at one point and was also a practicing Muslim.

    Why hide this stuff?

    The fact that Obama states he wasn’t Muslim is a lie. He was, he may not be now but quite frankly I would rather him be a moderate muslim than a member of Rev Wright’s hate church.

    Now we see what the MSM is doing to Joe the Plumber…anyone who questions Barack better watch out your life and career could be destroyed.

  468. JCH says:

    No, stupid ignorant foolishness does not need to be answered.

  469. glenn says:

    (481) The situation with ACORN is really disturbing as well.

    Obama is clearly lying about the extent of interaction he has had with ACORN. Like you can’t see the picture of Fannie Mae, ACORN, etc all tied up together including the audacity of Dodd, Frank giving 10’s of millions or dollar or more to ACORN in the bail-out bill.

    Does Obama really think Americans are that stupid?

  470. glenn says:

    (484) JCH there are TV news coverage of Obama speaking to all the supporters of Odinga at multiple locations in Kenya during their campaign.

    Obama’s speeches to the crowds matched the talking points of the Odinga campaign.

    Corsi and others are not making this up…it is a matter of fact.

    Do you think it is proper for a US Senator speaking out in support of foreign leader like that? Ever hear of the Logan Act?

    Odinga caused 2,000 people to be slaughtered when he lost the election and called for violence.

    Shouldn’t Obama be held accountable for his bad judgment in this situation?

    Or let me guess…since he is a liberal we should give him a pass just like he has given a pass to a scumbag like Ayers?

  471. glenn says:

    Did you ever read Hillary’s thesis inspired by Saul Alinsky?

    That didn’t hurt her. What could Obama’s thesis be about that is damning? Why does he have to hide it?

    Aren’t you one bit curious as to what he wrote?

    Now Obama says the American taxpayer doesn’t need ACORN either…lol another one under the bus!

    How many “under the bus” do you need before you say…”Wait a minute why are all these things connected to this person getting run over by a bus?” You better think about it before Obama throws our economy “under the bus”.

  472. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn it gets tiring to track down all the stories because *almost every single one of them* seeks to misrepresent the facts to suggest huge problems with (check one, or many!)

    [] Citizenship
    [] Loyalty
    [] Patriotism
    [] Terrorism

    What is interesting is that the stories do not seek an objective truth, rather they are trying to support the right wing negative talking points about Obama. Truth is important. People like Corsi make a living doing shoddy research in an attempt to manipulate opinion. Review his personal history if you want a good example of a shady character.

    OF COURSE the situation with ACORN is serious. The registration fraud also has little to nothing to do with Obama. Obama’s campaign has a history of good and clean registrations which is not in dispute.

    OF COURSE Obama should be held accountable for his past, though if you strip away the exaggerations about his relationships you find an honest, hard working, smart guy.

    John McCain would agree with this.

    The reason Obama’s winning is that people are far more interested in how he’s going to govern than in the smear campaigns. Good for them.

  473. JoeDuck says:

    RE: “Under the bus”

    So, by this logic:

    1) Supporting something is evidence of a big Obama problem.
    2) Staying quiet about something is evidence of a big Obama problem.
    3) Criticizing something is evidence of a big Obama problem.

    Hmmmm – that looks to me like a poll Obama can’t possibly win.

    Seek the objective truth and you’ll find a flawed but sincere fellow. I have read for hours and see no reason to think otherwise.

  474. JoeDuck says:

    The Odinga stuff appears to be Corsi’s trumped up critical view of what may actually become an asset in Obama – his global vision. Odinga was the more democratic of the two in that race and although he may have a lot of problems it was probably along the lines of our “support” for Musharraf and other such leaders. I think you are pinning violence on Odinga that was the result of vote fraud?

  475. glenn says:

    (488) Why doesn’t he instruct Hawaii to release a copy of the vault birth certificate not the registration of birth that he was given in 2007?

    Why doesn’t he provide his thesis for us all to read? They all do – it is important to get an insight to what has shaped the person.

    How can a person sit in a radical church with Rev Wright for 20 years, get married by him, have his kids baptized by him and then expect people not to question that?

    What is most scary about Barack Obama is he will say absolutely anything he has to – to get elected – its like a page right out Alinsky’s writings.

    The only reason he is in the lead is the level of anger against George Bush it really has little to do with what Obama wiil do in office. Have you seen the on-spot interviews with the “young” supporters of Obama?

    When asked “what question would you ask Senator Obama?”, most of the responses are like: “I want to know what Senator Obama is going to do to keep hope and change alive”…let’s all jump on unicorns and ride over rainbows.

    Given what Bush has done over the last 8 years any Democratic candidate should be 20 points or more ahead at this point. This shouldn’t even be a contest for the Democrats. Whenever everyone starts to focus on Obama and take another look the polls narrow and now it is a statistically dead heat. This election is far from over and McCain is still very much in this race.

    During the next two weeks I suspect we are going to see more and more revelations about Obama that he is going to have to fight to contain.

    Obama is the least electable candidate the Democrats have and McCain is literally the only Republican that could possibly win this year.

    Doesn’t it bother you at all that Obama has to on a daily basis adjust his stories? He knows ACORN is radioactive and there is a new clear connection with the voter project in Chicago that ACORN was clearly involved in and it shows Obama worked with them as well…and that happened in 1992, 3 years earlier than Obama claimed.

    I think the polls are changing because people are realizing they really don’t know who Obama is.

    Unfortunately race is probably going to have some affect on this race as well and many are suggesting he needs at least a 6 point lead on election day to overcome it.

    Additionally the student vote just isn’t going to happen…they have never followed through and granted more will show up this year but not as much as Obama needs.

    Another factor is people will question whether Obama will really cut taxes and when they get to the lever and think about Obama/Pelosi it will affect their ultimate choice.

    I know with Palin and the MSM bias it has energized the Republican base far more than I have ever seen.

    I am not exaggerating down here in Florida in most places it is 20:1 McCain signs to Obama signs. Florida will end up going for McCain.

    And now look at Ohio – dead tie and over 200,000 registrations look to have problems and are possibly invalid. That is out of 600,000 registrations – this ACORN issue is on massive scale across the entire country and now the FBI is all over it. This is going to cause damage to Obama and the Democratic party – they were fools to pay off ACORN in the bail-out and when that finally gets the air play people are going to pay attention.

  476. glenn says:

    (490) Joe Odinga called for violence in the streets because he alleged voter fraud. Odinga stopped the violence when the winning party gave him a spot in the government but not until 2000 people were killed.

    Odinga signed a MOU with Islam extremists and pledged to institute Sharia law if elected as long as he got the Muslim vote.

    This isn’t disputed…it is all over the news in Kenya with the newscasts and documents to prove i.

    Odinga isn’t the good guy here and he claims to be Obama’s cousin. Why hasn’t Obama answered that? He could just say Odinga isn’t my cousin…he could have rebuked Odinga’s call for violence…but he didn’t.

    I don’t think violence is the answer and if that is what Obama’s world vision is…sounds like Ayers is playing a major role in that vision (j/k).

  477. glenn says:

    (490) BTW…I should have said that Obama did try to calm the violence after it occurred which is good. The most disturbing part of Odinga is his direct financial ties to terrorists. I just don’t get that…hasn’t the world learned that any deal with a terrorist even if it benefits you today will certainly come back to bit you in the arse some day down the road.

    Bin Laden is the perfect example of that.

  478. JoeDuck says:

    Glenn there appears to me to be a fairlyt minor connection between Obama and Odinga. Obama already has said they are not cousins – that was a claim by Odinga, not Obama. Corsi, because he is a very dishonest writer, keeps talking about the cousin connection.

    FYI there are usually good objective analyses of all these issues at Wikipedia and unbiased websites. However you’ll only find bad stuff at WorldNetDaily, Corsi, and other sites dedicated to the proposition of printing all the bad news they can possibly track down about Obama and then inventing stuff when they can’t make a good case you will wind up believing he’s a bad guy.

  479. glenn says:

    (494) I know Odinga made that claim but I can’t find where Obama said it isn’t so.

    We have a couple weeks left and I think the final game plan for McCain is pretty well defined. If I could be so bold as to presume what they are thinking but this is my best guess…

    1) Look at what the Democrats and Obama have brought to the American people, Fannie Mae and ACORN. This is their way of Government helping out the American People, corruption and fraud and the collapse of our economy.

    2) Obama can’t possibly spend the kind of money that he wants to with his programs, he won’t agree with my spending freeze and now everyone one in American has lost trillions of their investments and savings – where is Obama going to get the money?

    He says he will raise capital gains – there will be no capital gains taxes for at least 2-3 years because of the stock market losses.

    He wants to raise the corporate income tax and force health care insurance on employers, we are already the 2nd highest corporate taxer in the world.

    These plans are going to cost jobs and/or raise the prices of good and services and the consumer is going to get stuck with it anyway.

    He wants to tax the big oil companies more – well they will just raise prices and we get stuck with it again.

    Either way you look at it 100% of Americans are going to have their taxes increased or prices inflated to cover the other taxes.

    Obama will be Herbert Hoover all over again.

    An Obama Presidency with Pelosi in Congress you will have essentially given them a blank check from your checkbook.

    3) When you add up all the questions you have about Obama and you can’t seem to get the whole story you have to ask yourself are you really comfortable voting for someone that you really don’t know all that much about?

    Our country is in major crisis and I know how to deal with crisis – I have had to deal with them including life and death crisis’s my entire life.

    If we elect Obama it would be like calling up a rookie to pinch hit for a long-time slugger during the last inning of the 7th game of the World Series.

    America cannot afford to mishandle the solution to this crisis and we certainly cannot trust it to someone who has never really handled crisis before.

    4) If McCain pledges to investigate and prosecute Wall-Street and Congressional members that broke the law or America’s trust he will pick up at least 3 points in the polls.

    On another topic…have you noticed in the seat polls those that supported the bail-out have had their races narrow to almost even…amazing but understandable just how mad people are about this fiasco.

  480. glenn says:

    Joe did you see them at the Smith dinner tonight – they bought were quite amazing in their speeches and their enthusiasm for each other.

    Whoever doesn’t get elected could host their own late show…lol

  481. JoeDuck says:

    I just saw a little clip from the dinner. It’s odd to see them so cordial and joking but I think it reflects how you can be friends and still have very strong disagreements.

  482. glenn says:

    Joe this is a perfect example of the things that pop up. Now it looks like Project Vote is actually part of ACORN.

    http://www.capitalresearch.org/blog/?p=1646

    ACORN does this kind of stuff…uses several corporate names but overlaps addresses, staff, etc.

    So even though Barack Obama says he worked for Project Vote in 1992 he “wasn’t” working for ACORN until 1995. This is problem I see with attorney’s running for office – you have to parse every single word and then figure out what they are not telling you.

  483. glenn says:

    Look at one of the major donors for ACORN – Robinhood…what a great name – take from the rich and give to the poor. This is one of Soro’s gigs…but look at the Board of Directors – no wonder MSM isn’t touching this.

    They all have their hands in this gig with the liberal left – this is absolutely turning out to be the biggest fraud and theft in American history.

    http://www.robinhood.org/leaders-and-staff/board.aspx

  484. glenn says:

    Joe did you see Murtha canceled his debate tonight? Nobody in the MSM even mentioned it.

    These networks are becoming no better than the hard wired channels in North Korea.

    This is our future…nice…

  485. glenn says:

    Joe, ACORN is the key to this entire fiasco. Now that we know Project VOTE is connected to ACORN more tightly then they admit but people are uncovering.

    They are claiming they convinced Brunner in Ohio to issue the directive. Given Ohio has a Democratic Governor you can see how this looks.

    This is beginning to look like a concerted effort on the Democratic party to subvert the election this year. If this hypothesis gets any legs then it won’t be a big stretch to start connecting the dots and tie the financial crisis as part of the plan – the timing was just too convenient and the players are all too tightly connected.

    Either way this will make a great movie!

    https://secure.groundspring.org/dn/index.php?aid=10447

  486. glenn says:

    Geesh…Joe…do you know the founder of ACORN – Wade Rathke? Do you know what group he was part of: SDS.

    Now we know SDS and The Weatherman were close and connected…gee what a shocker!

    When you start to connect all the dots it paints a very bad picture.

    Gee I wonder if Rathke and Ayers are friends?

  487. glenn says:

    Joe SEUI filed an amicus brief in the United States Supreme Court asking they rule with Brunner.

    Guess who started SEUI? : Rathke.

    What a bunch of thugs!

  488. Paul says:

    “If this hypothesis gets any legs then it won’t be a big stretch to start connecting the dots and tie the financial crisis as part of the plan – the timing was just too convenient and the players are all too tightly connected.” – now this is beyond a reach, this is just plain bizarre!! This is as silly, and ludicrous, and crackpot as liberals who think the neocons conspired to have planes flown into the twin towers to provide a motive for invading Iraq….and it is just about as believable.

    You’ve gone round the bend with this one…

  489. glenn says:

    So now we see Obama went to ACORN and asked them to provide an economic expert.

    But he only used them for location and lighting…oh yeah that is what they first reported…then they refiled with FEC and said it was for get out the vote…

    http://www.chieforganizer.org/index.php?id=57&no_cache=1&tx_eeblog%5BcategoryId%5D=17&tx_eeblog%5Bpointer%5D=9&tx_eeblog%5BshowUid%5D=18837

  490. glenn says:

    (504) What is absurd is how connected ACORN is to these major crisis’s we are experiencing today.

    ACORN was at the heart of the bad choices supporting CRA.

    ACORN is at the heart of this massive voter fraud.

    Then you connect up the entire cast of characters and it implicates the entire liberal Democratic group in the USA.

    ACORN is going to cause major major problems for Democrats now.

    And ALL of this connects back to radicals…just plain strange.

    And for the “conspiracy theory” it was written to show how easy it would be for extremists to jump on it. I don’t think that is the case of what happened. If it ever got anywhere near that we would have a massive civil war in this country over it.

  491. glenn says:

    (504) Paul the massive hypocrisy of the left and how they have vilified Joe the Plumber…it is just disgraceful. His situation is probably more common than not with so many people hurting in this country right now.

    And he is being destroyed by Obama, Biden and the left wing MSM for what reason? Because he disagreed with Obama.

    It’s a disgrace to every taxpayer in America. I couldn’t believe Obama’s and Biden’s comments today.

    BTW…Did you see how many plumbers have come forward today to say their business did generate more than 250k in revenue per year?

    People want to rip into McCain negative ads even though there is definitely some truth in them but no one wants to speak about how they destroying a hard working Joe who deserves a hell of lot better than that. This is a prime example of exactly how Obama/Biden feel about the middle class – they are beneath them and part of the non-elite. But this isn’t class-warfare oh not at all.

    The problem for Joe…he isn’t an illegal alien working here – if that were the case Obama, Frank and Dodd would give him a house and complete immunity from any wrong doing.

    The liberal left is the one going round the bend on this one.

  492. glenn says:

    (504) Get ready Paul the blank check congress is about to start.

    Now House Democrats want to abolish 401(k) tax breaks…

    http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081012/REG/310139971

    Gee let’s stick our boot in the eye of the American taxpayer while they are reeling on the ground from massive evaporation of their 401(k)’s.

  493. JoeDuck says:

    Sure plumbing businesses might top 250k in taxable income but no plumber would make that much. 2000 hours x 100/hr = 200k would be close to the very high upper limit with only a few exceptions. Very few plumbers work 2000 hours or charge 100 per hour. Average is probably about 65k?

    So the funny thing about the Joe the plumber incident is that he is pretty representative right now as a regular guy, and would get more tax relief under Obama, but he seems to think that if he buys his biz he’d do better under McCain’s plan. I’m guessing he’s simply not understanding that the 250k is taxable income. That’s very good for a mom and pop plumbing company.

  494. JCH says:

    I read that the actual owner of the plumbing company where Joe works is on some business data list. He grosses $510,000, and makes 175,000. He’ll make a little less this year because he’s gonna have to buy himself a plumbing license.

    Using Glenn’s wild-butted rumor approach, there is a rumor that Joe has been suspended for insubordination and drunkenness. And, he told his X in divorce court that he’s only making $40,0000, but he apparently has saved enough money to buy a very expensive plumbing company. Her lawyer may have some questions for Joe.

    Joe would not be better off under McCain’s plan as 95 out of 100 of his potential customers would have more money in their pockets for plumbing work, and the other 5 would still be exceptionally well off and be able to buy whatever plumbing services their little hearts desire.

  495. JCH says:

    That should be, under Obama’s plan 95 out of 100…

  496. glenn says:

    (509) Even T. Boone Pickens thinks raising any taxes at all is complete suicide for our economy.

    So no matter how you want to slice and try to protect Obama’s plans he is going to take us into a deep depression and the job loss in this country is going to be staggering.

  497. JCH says:

    He raises taxes on 5% of taxpayers, and lowers taxes on 95% of taxpayers.

    And T-bone is called T-bone for a reason.

  498. glenn says:

    (513) JCH at least 45% of those 95% don’t pay taxes today. So he will be sending them a government check. It is the largest welfare program in the history of this country.

    Its ironic in an age when everything is supposed to be more open people like Obama want to hide as much as they can so they can get away with their agendas.

    ALL the experts out there say the 95% number is way off and if you think with the blank check congress that taxes are not going to go up on most if not all Americans your smoking something.

    Any increase in corporate tax is passed along to the consumer – so no matter how you want to spin it 100% of Americans will be paying higher prices. It will have nothing to do with supply and demand.

    I know for a fact that many companies have already issued hiring freezes and if Obama is elected then they are planning significant layoff of US workers just to stay ahead of the curve.

    According to Gallup only 13% of America supports income redistribution which is exactly what Obama is planning. 84% are staunchly against it. Isn’t it ironic that even less people than that approve of Pelosi and the blank check congress?

    Do you seriously believe that a radical and socialist tenet like income redistribution is going to be accepted by Americans? This is going to create a level of strife and violence in this country that we have never seen before and it is going to make us much weaker overall on the international front.

    I don’t think the American people are that stupid, they will get the message and they will vote down socialism.

  499. glenn says:

    Americans will read and understand the truth of what is being pitched on their doorstep. Most Americans will not buy into the unicorns and rainbow approach to life.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122420205889842989.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

  500. JCH says:

    It’s 95% of tax-return filers. People who fill it out and send in a 1040.

    Any business that is planning layoffs based upon the election of Obama needs to go out of business because the decisionators are total idiotic moron dumb-butted retards.

  501. glenn says:

    (516) JCH then you need to send your message to the VC guys all over the country. The message is loud and clear and companies have already started laying off.

    Now you are playing games…

    Barack Obama says 95% of Americans are going to get a tax cut.

    Of course you are completely ignoring that he will repeal the Bush tax cuts and those businesses today that you say are not making 250k a year will all of sudden be making 250k a year.

    This idea of Obamaconimics is loony.

    PS – This FBI agent has it right about Bill Ayers.

    http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3154201&referralPlaylistId=playlist

  502. glenn says:

    Now look at MSNBC completely falsifying and burying the truth about ACORN.

    MSNBC says ACORN fake registrations do not account to voter fraud. Unless someone tries to vote on that false registration.

    THAT IS COMPLETELY UNTRUE. It is illegal to submit a false voter registration and to knowingly do it is fraud and conspiracy.

    What is wrong with the moral compasses of the liberal left?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27228549/

  503. glenn says:

    WOW now look at Martin Nesbitt’s tax liens. You would think the TREASURER of his campaign would do a little bit better job with his taxes and managing finance…but hey with all those illegal donations and other questionable financial activity how can you blame Nesbitt?

    MSM and liberal left are hypocrites…they go after Joe the Plumber but once again give a pass to a key member of Obama’s campaign.

    http://webofdeception.com/obama.html#nesbitt

  504. JCH says:

    Glenn, I’ll try to help you out. The WSJ opinion page is total crap. They lie. They distort. They cheat. They’re excrement sausages parading around the earth as human beings.

  505. glenn says:

    (520) Good answer that was very effective. Thanks I will just watch MSNBC and read the NYT (at least while they are still in business) so that I have the complete truth about all this stuff…lol

  506. JCH says:

    i do not watch TV news, and I do not read the NYT. They employ David Brooks.

    What percentage of working families – that means they have at least one job and earn income – makes less than $10,000 per year?

    What percentage is between 10,000 and 30,000? $30,000 and $60,000?

    You can look this stuff up.

    Just about every policemen, school teacher, college professor, and firemen in America will get a tax cut under Obama. You want to screw them by perpetuating welfare to the rich because you are jealous that a working family making 10,000 or less per year is going to get a 500 bucks.

    Pathetic.

    As for welfare to the rich, the theory was they were going to grow their businesses and create more jobs and create a great economy. What happened?

    Looks to me like they spent all their welfare benefits on derivatives and swaps.

  507. glenn says:

    (522) Actually JCH you are dead wrong about what I think.

    If you do some research on the fairtax which I fully support then you would see people living at or below the poverty line would get a check every week from the Government.

    It would be way more than what Obama is promising.

    The major difference with me and you…

    I believe that our government continually has shown it is incompetent and corrupt with ALL financial matters. I do not believe the potential massive growth of Government is going to benefit Americans.

    You on the other hand think the Government can solve all these problems. Look at Hawaii, CA, MA and how their “massive” feel good socialist ideas are bankrupting those states or failing to deliver on the promise.

    I want the power returned to the people and I want the corrupt out of our way.

    You want to reward the corrupt and empower them to do more ill toward the hardworking American.

    I want the Government to stand next to me, protect me militarily, provide excellent infrastructure.

    You want the Government to do everything for you. You want to evade responsibility, accountability, etc ALL the things the liberal left support.

    It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to understand what percentage of America is represented by Obama/Pelosi/Dodd/Frank/Reid/Murtha/Franken

    Even within the Democratic party they represent less than 1/3 of their entire party. On a national level they represent maybe 10-13%. It is pure insanity to hand over power to a group that represents less than 20% of the population. Go do some research on history and you will see what happens when this type of power change occurs.

  508. glenn says:

    (522) JCH so you can read some facts about the middle class. With the expiration of the Bush tax cuts literally 100% of taxpayers will have their taxes increase.

    WITH THE EXPIRATION OF THE BUSH TAX CUTS:

    Single tax payers in three typical low to middle income categories have the taxes increased 12% on average

    Single Taxpayer making $30K – Pays 15% more in taxes when Bush tax cuts expire

    Single Taxpayer making $50K – Pays 10% more in taxes when Bush tax cuts expire

    Single Taxpayer making $75K – Pays 11% more in taxes when Bush tax cuts expire

    But married taxpayers in typical low to middle income really get the shaft! Their taxes are increased 20.5% on average

    Married Taxpayer making $60K – Pays 19.5% more in taxes when Bush tax cuts expire

    Married Taxpayer making $75K – Pays 21.5% more in taxes when Bush tax cuts expire

    Married Taxpayer making $125K – Pays 20.5% more in taxes when Bush tax cuts expire

  509. glenn says:

    (522) JCH so more info on Obama’s tax increases on 100% of taxpayers.

    When Obama and the Democrats allow the 2003 tax cuts to expire the following will happen:

    1) The federal income tax rates go back up to the higher rates of the year 2000. Low income, middle income, high income will all pay higher taxes.

    2) The Earned income tax credit (EITC) will be reduced. This affects the low income.

    3) The child credit will be reduced from from $1000/child to $500/child. This affects all income levels.

    4) The marriage penalty will be back. This affects all income levels.

  510. glenn says:

    (522) JCH I found a school that would do really well at…just kidding…this press release is hysterical.

    MEDIA ALERT: Prophet Yahweh Predicts Spaceships Will Appear Oct. 31st in Support of Senator Obama

    Prophet Yahweh, Seer of Yahweh, Master UFO Caller says that on October 31, 2008, superhuman black men, from other planets, will appear in their spaceships and hover over his UFO Summoning School for three days as a sign that all Americans should vote for Obama as President.

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/10/prweb1395924.htm

    Now I know I must change my views…I am sure the NYT’s and Olberman will interview this guy…

    God help us!

  511. JCH says:

    If I’m an employer and I know that you will work for net dollars, why would I pay you gross dollars?

  512. glenn says:

    Of course there isn’t any media bias going on here…lol

    “No presidential candidate should get to the point that he has locked up his party’s nomination without public vetting of his health.”
    –New York Times, on John McCain, May 4 2008 “Missing Records”

    Many were the words written about John McCain and his medical records. That he delayed in releasing them, that his health records were crucial to the public’s right to know.

    After McCain released nearly 1200 pages of medical records–the Arizona Senator not only had war-related injuries, but also bouts with skin cancer–the Mainstream Media complained that reporters were not given enough time to go through McCain’s records: they were given three hours to look through them.

    Three hours is far less time than it would take those same reporters to go through Barack Obama’s medical records that have been released.

    Because there are none.

    The Obama campaign has stated that no medical records will be released. Instead, a one-page undated letter from a doctor will have to satisfy reporters on that issue.

    The New York Times on Barack Obama in May:

    The six-paragraph, one-page statement summarized the senator’s health for the last 21 years and was signed by Dr. David L. Scheiner, who said he has been Mr. Obama’s primary care physician since March 23, 1987.

    A spokesman for Mr. Obama said his campaign would not make Dr. Scheiner available for a telephone interview.” –New York Times, May 8 2008.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/us/politics/30obama.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    But he isn’t hiding anything…no medical records, no college records, no college thesis, etc…

  513. glenn says:

    (528) That makes no sense whatsoever unless you are in the fishing industry.

  514. Paul says:

    All this rhetoric matters not a bit because:

    -Sarah Palin is going back to Alaska, where she most decidedly belongs….as far away from the lower 48 as we can get her.
    -John McCain is going back to Senate where he can work hard at being part of the checks and balances that are so important to our system of government.
    -Barack Obama and Joe Biden are going to win this election with a solid, though not overwhelming, margin on Nov 4th.

    You can argue & vainly try to vilify all you want, but that reality is barreling towards us with greater strength and momentum every day.

    There is a silver lining, of sorts, in all of this – the fair and balanced (ha!) talking heads on Fox will have plenty of fodder for their venomous & acerbic commentators to whine about for the next 4 years – thus providing John Stewart & Steve Colbert with more priceless material for us all to enjoy.

    It can’t happen soon enough for me.

  515. JCH says:

    Simplified examples:

    Your salary is 100,000. I deduct 20,000 for taxes. One day I get a letter that says there are no more taxes.

    Guess what, I know you will work for 80,000.

    I’m selling loaves of bread for $5.00. I know there is $1.00 of hidden tax in a loaf. I get a letter saying the hidden taxes went poof.

    I already know you will pay $5.00.

  516. horatiox says:

    Just about every policemen, school teacher, college professor, and firemen in America will get a tax cut under Obama…

    Yes, the public employees like cops, fire-boys, schoolmarmies, the massive maintenance-worker unions (the El Lay janitor union probably carries more weight than teachers or nursies) stand to benefit. Those not in a public employee racket stand to lose.

    Corp. execs have probably figured out ways to avoid the impact of Obamanomics, via tax shelters, various foreign investments, etc. It’s the middle/upper middle class class working in private sector that will be f-ed.

  517. glenn says:

    The great Obamanation…

    This is our future…less rights, less freedoms unless of course you go far left.

    Mentally challenged man says his vote wasn’t right. Volunteer took him to vote and force him to vote for Obama.

    http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?s=9177991

    The Democratic party – party of Terrorists, Drug Addicts, Homeless, Felons, and abusers of mentally handicapped people.

    Now wonder they hate Palin – she actually dared to bring a downs syndrome baby into this world.

    We only want slaves that can serve the elite we can’t have people born that can’t do our bidding.

    As Obama said himself…if my daughter makes a mistake I don’t want her punished with having a child…interesting how some people think a child is punishment.

  518. glenn says:

    Joe have you noticed the samples used in all the current polls have a significantly higher percentage of Democrats than Republicans and Independents are almost not even counted anymore. They use the voter registration by party to determine these ratios of Dems/Reps/Ind̷