Obama for President

Although I’m a political junkie I’d hoped to try to stay  objective  in a race I knew would be clouded with the usual nonsense of our American democratic experience where marketing and the politics of personal destruction *always* trump an intelligent discussion of the issues.   However I’ve been especially alarmed by the very personal and deceptive attacks on Obama’s character and personal history.   Thanks to some huge comment streams this blog has become mostly political for the past week so I should let readers know where I stand.

Barack Obama for President.

Like Christopher Buckley I’m normally a small government low tax fiscal conservative, but also like Buckley I think more than anything right now the country needs a “first class mind” in the oval office.  The world faces the greatest fiscal crisis since the great depression, and global terrorism remains a critical threat around the world.   Perhaps the John McCain of the 1990s would be a good man for the job now, but that John McCain is not running for President.

Obama, unlike any other prominent American leader, will send a signal to the world that the USA remains both the shining beacon of prosperity we have always been but also is asserting an entirely new approach to internal affairs – an approach characterized by flexibility, compassion, and intelligent reflection rather than the knee jerk ideological responses that have compromised our reputation and standing in the global community for much of the past 8 years.

Obama is the right choice for these challenging times despite some flaws.   I’ll keep hoping that the economic challenges will force Obama into more realistic ideas about how the economy and personal responsibility.    I hope Obama will soon come to realize how the national debt and deficit are ticking time bombs that pose a  greater than the current looming financial crisis, and work hard towards a balanced federal budget.

But trumping those concerns for me is that the country will benefit from Obama’s ability to galvanize support and bring people together.  Some will choose to fight Obama and to continue the smears and personal attacks, but in the same way that approach has failed in the campaign I hope that approach fails with America as we move forward to the great challenges that we all must face together, like it or not.

The future is uncertain and potentially very perilous.   Major changes and challenges are coming at us with each passing day.  We need inspired new leadership.

Obama for President.

Anyway … the cooler logo should win this thing


641 thoughts on “Obama for President

  1. McCain voted 90% of the time with the current “strategy” – I will take hope over THAT any day of the week….and I think there is more to it than hope alone. I retain my cautious stand on having all 3 branches of government in the hands of either party, but McSAME and Palin leave me feeling that is the better alternative by far.

  2. Because of the current circumstance, the national debt is going to continue mounting. We’ve just experienced a sort of Pearl Harbor.

    The zeroes in the White House just sank financial row.

  3. I am very much a moderate (a recent fun quiz put me literally at 50/50 liberal/conservative but with strong views across party lines on different topics), and I agree for so many of the same reasons that Obama gets my vote.

    I am also sickened by all of the over the top truth twisting, misrepresentations and outright bold faced lies floating around. I’ve made very good friends with http://www.factcheck.org/ and http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/ (and a few other similar sites) because non-partisan, non-agenda and unbiased information seems so much more elusive this election than any I remember. After reading the facts, not the spin, not the bullshit, not the lies, but reading the facts in places where neither candidate is favored but where veracity is actually painstakingly researched on statements from either camp, I’ve made my decision, and it’s Obama.

    By the numbers, Joe the Plumber actually gets a better deal and pays less tax under Obama, and so do I. Frankly, right now, that matters because I need to hold onto as much of my paycheck that I earn as possible in order to buy groceries and heat my home this winter. Plus, I just plain like Obama and have since his courageously honest speech addressing the race issue still alive and well in much of our country, and while I don’t believe McCain wouldn’t necessarily be entirely terrible, I don’t think he’s the right kind of change or that he “gets it” the way Obama does. More importantly, McCain is out for me because Palin is scary as hell on so very many levels even if she is cute as a button (and I think her special needs infant needs a mom more than we need her as VP – there, I said it).

    All that to say: I agree. 🙂

  4. Hi Maggie – hey, thanks for checking in! I think you are speaking for a *lot* of people with the comment and I think the polls are suggesting that for a change the smear campaign has backfired or been ignored as it should be.

    I’d almost go so far as to suggest that if McCain had made a more responsible choice for VP, had stuck to his 1990’s “straight talk”, and had put out more fiscally prudent policies he’d be the likely winner Nov 4.

  5. Joe the Plumber does not really get a better deal with Obamanomics. A professional plumber’s a contractor–not merely punching a clock. Any small savings that he makes via an income tax cut (if it even goes through) will be offset by a mandatory health care premium for his employees, his capital gains tax rate (and any real businessman has cash in investments, loans, bonds), and possibly a “profits” tax (as Obama supported in IL—i.e. taxing commissions), etc.

    For that matter, as soon as Joe reaches the upper middle class (say 250 grand a year), he’s put in a higher tax bracket, and most of his profits are gone. And there are rumors BO may implement some type of equity tax: i.e. a higher tax rate on house sales (when Joe wants to sell his shack and move into a nice neighborhood).

    Paraphrasing Matt Stone from a few years ago, “I hate conservatives, but really f-ing hate liberals.” (politicians, that is, and figuratively speaking of course). While I am not thrilled with McCain, BO is not the middle class or business candidate: he’s the po’ folks candidate, and the unionist candidate . SO best to stick with DFV (as in Don’t F-ing Vote).

    Plus, BO’s not as dovey as some of the DNCocrats claim: that he accepted Colin Powell’s blessing without comment might be cause for some concern. It’s a free country and all, but I don’t agree with your move to the BO par-tay, Mr. Duck.

  6. Hey, fair enough Horatiox though I’m very confident that if Joe ran his math he’d be better off under Obama now and into his possible plumbing business future. I’m surprised 250k is getting bandied about as if a lot of folks make that much. Very, very few do although you can make a case that the rich bring a lot of jobs. That case is getting weaker every day, but certainly Bill Gates creates a lot more jobs than Joe Sixpack. How taxing the heck out of Bill and Buffet will affect employement remains to be seen, but it is interesting that Buffett – no stranger to capitalism or business approaches – favors Obama’s plans.

  7. You guys are assuming you are going to actually get a tax cut.

    FACTS: This is third time Obama is running primarily on middle class tax cut.

    The first two times he never delivered…in fact after he was elected it was never even mentioned.

    There is no way Obama can do 10% of what he is promising without raising taxes on everyone.

    Additionally the slow down in the economy is only going to accelerate and be prolonged with his massive government expansion and expense.

    Economically it is 1929, world danger it is 1939. We need to look back in history and try not to make the same damn mistakes again.

  8. (5) Maggie always says it so much better than I ever could, just like when we were all trying to figure out where James was. So good to see you here again.

  9. • Tax relief for trial lawyers — $1.5 billion worth over a decade by changing rules to encourage more and riskier “jackpot justice” lawsuits. (Section 311 of H.R. 6049.)

    • New federal subsidies to buy gas for families making up to three times the federal poverty line, which would be $63,600 in annual income for a family of four. (H.R. 6561)

    • Wage insurance. Create a new federal payroll tax on all workers to pay for “insurance” that would – get this – pay people up to 50 percent of the difference in wages between an old job and a new, lower-paying job. So if John Doe voluntarily takes a new job that requires 10 hours less work per week, the government would pay him for five of the hours that he doesn’t work – courtesy of other, harder-working wage earners.

    These are some of the things Obama is going to bring to the American taxpayer.

  10. Glenn I’m skeptical of Wage Insurance as well, but it’s also a McCain plan.

    From US News:

    McCain recently suggested to the Detroit Free Press that when a middle-class worker is laid off and takes a job at a fast-food restaurant to make ends meet, government should lend a helping hand as long as he is retraining for a new job. “If someone has to work at McDonald’s, I will compensate them for the loss of income for some period of time,” he explained.

  11. Sure Obama might go back on promises but so might McCain who has offered more of a total tax break (most to rich) and thus more of a potentially budget busting plan.

    Glenn don’t you think that presidential leadership and inspiring confidence in people will have at least as much impact as cutting so much in taxes at the top? I’m not seeing job creation from that any more than we’ve had a jobs boom from the Bush tax cuts.

  12. (13) Like I have said Joe…McCain is as much of a Democrat as he is a Republican. It is my belief that we at least have a chance of minimizing bureaucrats gone wild!

    (14) The main issue you have with leadership from Obama is that he is partisan and with a congress and judicial branch all in the bag the only leadership you will see is a forced big government agenda where Americans lose more of their money and quite frankly their rights.

    The main government sponsored program that could have created jobs would be the building of nuclear power plants and I just don’t see Obama doing any of that. I also don’t see any oil drilling or clean coal going on. Even with the price of oil tanking it is of up most importance that we completely sever the ties of foreign oil and I just don’t see a viable plan from Obama to do that. 20 years from now we will still be having this discussion.

    I also think on national security and international affairs Obama is going to be a disaster and quite frankly Biden has been wrong many more times than he has been right about foreign policy.

    The rogue nations (which Russia is one) will most definitely try to take advantage of these facts and that erodes any real possibility of diplomacy working unless we are just going to be willing to cave in to their demands.

  13. Joe another area I just can’t bring myself to reconcile and that is a vote for Obama is a vote for the biggest cover up in the history of our country.

    Dodd, Frank and ACORN need to be fully investigated and where the train went wrong it needs to be exposed and those responsible need to be prosecuted if any laws were broken.

    Obama is not going to do that and in fact if Obama gets elected it will only empower Dodd and Frank to do even more corrupt legislating.

    Just listen to both of them right now…

  14. Frank hasn’t broken any laws. Neither has Dodd.

    You have to have a reason to investigate. Not liking them is not a reason.

    FOX news loves to show the 2003 tape where Frank says he sees no crisis at Fannie and Freddie.

    That is such unbelievably stupid logic on the part FOX. (Gee, what a surprise.)

    In 2003 Lehman brothers was not bankrupt. In 2003 there were no signs of trouble at Goldman Sachs. In 2003 Merrill Lynch look like it could last for centuries.

    So there is nothing surprising in Frank not seeing a crisis at Fannie and Freddie. Why? Because there was none. Fannie and Freddie had a revenue misstatement problem at the problem. That was not a financial crisis.

    The most disturbing thing about the national media on this issue, not a single one of them has figured out the 2005 Fannie and Freddie reform bill did nothing at all to regulate subprime lending, and that, in point of fact, it likely would have resulted in even more subprime mending. So we have congressmen making the totally false claim that they supported a bill that would have averted the credit crisis. What a joke the pretty hair crowd has become.

  15. (17) JCH you are so partisan it is just downright silly.

    Amazing how you refuse to find any fault whatsoever with the Democratic party – regardless of issue.

    You might want to stop drinking Kool-aid.

  16. In addition to having questions about Obama’s socialist-leaning econ. policies (see his IL record for details), the lack of “transparency” on the part of Team Obama should concern rational Americans, even rational democrats (a rarity).

    Reporters (and the public) made a big deal of Bush/Kerry/McCain’s poor grades and college associations (skull and bones, etc.). In Obama’s case, reporters have been prevented from investigating/verifying those records. That approaches obstruction of justice (and not lacking a somewhat Orwellian quality. Ignorance is Strength!). The birth cert. another related issue.

    What does Team Obama have to hide? Some of the terrorist paranoia may go a bit far, yet it would seem Team Obama WOULD cough up the college records and the rest assuming there’s nothing to hide. So, since they haven’t coughed it up, he probably IS hiding something.

  17. (19) So I guess under your base assumption unless someone discloses their private records they are guilty of something/have something to hide? He is not required to do so, and he has already been thoroughly vetted by the systems in place, including providing his certificate of live birth, which is a valid document despite the tin-foil hats conspiratorial claims.

    Since when did personal privacy become an indication of sinister activity?

  18. Obstruction of justice? What can one say? From that I cannot conclude that rationality is much in abundance on the right.

    Glenn, you are dead wrong. I have demanded you provide a law that you think he violated. You provided none. You want to hang the lynch-mob way.

    Congressmen get campaign donations. Industries are free to give donations to members of committees that regulate their industry. It’s called free speech. Frank can express an opinion about the financial condition of Fannie and Freddie. He can be right or wrong in his opinion. That is not a violation of law.

    You cannot go around willy nilly investigating Americans. There has to be some reasonable threshold before something like that can be initiated. Nothing coming from the right about Frank even begins to pass the reasonableness test.

    Find something material, and I’ll consider it. Throw crap against the wall and I’ll slam your fingers in a drawer.

  19. Yeah, obstruction of Justice (i.e. denial of Due Process, transparency, “vetting”, all the BS that the DNCocrats have whined about for years). Rational politics would seemingly require verification (fact-checking) of a potential candidate’s background (the Fed courts think so, and Berg’s case still an issue). Could Obama even pass a security clearance? Some journalists say no:


    (that’s not an endorsement of JWR’s politics, btw, but they do have an interesting perspective on BO’s rise to power. Anyone recall Nat Hentoff? He’s not down with Team Obama either).

  20. (21) Doesn’t it bother you that we know more about game show contestants than we do about a Presidential candidate?

    I think Hillary, McCain, Biden, etc…etc…etc…have all been properly vetted.

    In regard to Obama even his voting record screams that he wants to hide something…

    And his ever evolving campaign stance since the primary…it always changes with the polls.

    MK you are comfortable with Obama, many Americans are not and they want to know more but unfortunately most in the media have given this guy a huge pass. It is to the point of absurdity and double standard.

    Compare the press conferences that Biden has had compared to Palin. The media screamed no access to Palin. Biden has not had ONE presser since Sep.

    Look at Mahoney versus Foley. Foley was caught having disgusting emails and texts and if the media used the Barney Frank standard he should have passed. Look at Mahoney he campaigned against Foley when it broke and he campaigned on family values. Mahoney completely violated the public’s trust but the media is nearly silent on it.

    The media made a conscientious decision to help get Obama elected. That became clearly obvious during the primary.

    This attitude of the end justifies the means is very scary. Nothing good hardly comes of it.

  21. Joe I just realized you could have named this blog entry as:

    His Vote For Obama.

    Then all the recent comments would say:

    Glenn on His Vote For Obama.
    JCH on His Vote For Obama.
    Metroknow on His Vote For Obama.

  22. I still have no answer to my question…So because someone exercises their right to privacy they are guilty of hiding something? Kind of a simple question really. Kind of common sense, really.

  23. And how many of you are qualified to *disqualify* the certification of the elections commission who allowed him to be a a U.S. Senator, and then run for President? I guess he’s got everyone fooled. They must never have done any sort of background check, apparently. C’mon people. I guess our entire system of security is all suspect, and nobody but a handful of far-right screamers has any clue about how to verify someone’s background.

    Laughable, and embarrassing.

  24. (28) It is a double standard. If McCain had decided that no one was going to see his medical records the media would have stories all over the place about how he was going to die from cancer and the proof was in the B-52 bomber that was found on the moon.

    For Obama it is exercising his right to privacy.
    For McCain it would be covering something up.

    How about a concept since you are about to be elected for the most important job in this country your employer’s are entitled to a background check?

    A person in the middle class will go through a more thorough background screening getting a job at a bank than Obama has gone through.

    He gets to send our troops into harm’s way we have a right to know everything about him.

  25. (30) Again, do you possess the qualifications to disqualify the results of the background check that was conducted by the elections commission? I doubt it. You know for a fact that he has not gone through the required screening? Because if you can produce that fact, that is news. So far, I have seen idiots who claim that because his birth cert. says “African American” that is proof that it’s fake, because “we didn’t call them that back then!” Really intelligent argument.

    On double standard, what bearing exactly do his grades have on his qualifications? On the other hand, whether we are going to turn over the reigns of this country to a gun-toting hockey mom who can’t remember the names of the commanders abroad, THAT has bearing.

    Obama has two choices: keep his right to privacy in tact and stand behind the system that has validated him, or (b) give out his records and let the chatter over a b- in history continue to distract the nation. His grades are a waste of time. His funding of college? I can see how that might concern some, but does that mean he is secretly Karl Marx? C’mon. Be reasonable.

  26. (31) MK why don’t you want to know the truth?

    Why are you willing to give Obama a pass?

    Surely you haven’t felt this way about all candidates?

    The media doesn’t hesitate to slam McCain on his grades when arguably his IQ is actually higher than Obama’s.

    In regard to his schooling I think it is important to see if he received foreign aid and from whom?

    I actually could care less about his grades unless he was given some preferential treatment to get into Harvard Law when another deserving student was given the option.

  27. A candidate for President no longer has the right to privacy that an ordinary joe has, does he. And speaking of Marx, Obama himself admits to respecting one Frank Davis, a communist (as were BO’s parents, at least at times); Davis also rumored to be a, uh, three dollar bill, y’all.

    BO did legal work for various leftist causes, some with marxist aspects, and that’s another “vetting” issue which Team Obama has covered-up: many of Obama’s cases as “civil rights” lawyer have been sealed as well. Porque?? Probably because Team Obama doesn’t want American citizens knowing that BO associations, whether with reds, mobsters, muslims, what have you.

    Did you note this factoid on JWR (neo-con Oppressors, of course): “The Kenny Gamble (also known as Luqman Abdul-Haqq) connection: Gamble, a once-prominent pop music producer (and now muslim, connected to Saudis), cut the ribbon to the Obama campaign headquarters housed in a south Philadelphia building he owns…” Tin-foil-hat, conspiracy stuff, of course. Ishalllahhhhhhhhhh

  28. You also have to wonder what is going on in Chicago. Look at who run the scene there and look at the violence. The murder rate this year in Chicago is higher than the number of soldiers getting killed in Iraq.

    Doesn’t that raise any level of concern?

    Doesn’t it make you wonder if all the radicalization of people is finally coming home to roost in Chicago?

    IL state pension is $44 billion in debt the worst in the country.

    Cook County has these highest sales tax in the country 10.25%

    The Chicago school system is rated near the worst in the entire country. You would think with the citizen of the year and his great educational brilliance that Chicago would be doing better.

    The fact is: Chicago is a disaster on all levels and we are going to nationalize the failed approaches in Chicago for the entire country. Doesn’t that concern you in the least?

    You have to look at the track record of the candidates to understand what they will do as opposed to their rhetoric.

  29. I tend to think Kid Obama’s more affiliated with mobsters–chi-town tradition, y’all– than Red (or orthodox mooslim). The Rezko connection, his association with Blagojevich–even the Kennedys. That’s not to say Barack’s stupid or incompetent. Hell no: he’s a mastermind, as the gangstas say. And however trite or corny it might seem, the old school gangs–Al Capone, Five Points, Murder Inc.–usually had some bruthas for back up, not to say attorneys and aldermen on the take. Fuggetaboutit.

  30. (32) I may be the minority here, but honestly I truly do not care about either one of their report cards from Middle school (I actually did have to look up whether McCain disclosed his, because it is so unimportant to me), high school, or any other school. The real issue is how much division these sorts of questions cause, when we need more than anything to unite in this country to save us from ourselves. To even suggest that Obama got preferential treatment to get into Harvard Law is incredible to me, and based on what exactly? Well I guess again, according to that reasoning, Harvard is also in the pocket of the Democrats. You know, Harvard, famous for turning out middle class minority Democrats.

    Unreal. It’s a waste of time. But more than anything, I am not interested in re-asking the question because the relevant truth is *already known*. Obama is a Senator, a Patriot, and seeks to try to undo the fiasco that McCain and his Good Old Boy party has done to our nation (Thanks for helping to write the unbridled checks to Haliburton, Exxon Mobil, and all of the other friends of the RNC – it certainly has helped the economy, and that wealth of the few is clearly trickling down today). He is not Karl Marx. He is not a Terrorist. He IS a Black man, which although strikes terror in the hearts of a generation of white Americans who think he is somehow anti-White, is truly insulting to our intelligence, and more importantly, NOT NEWS. It’s not bias for the news to omit stories that lack any legs. It’s reporting on what is relevant.

    Travel abroad and see what people say about Americans – not extremists; moderates all over the world shake their head in disbelief now because the country under RNC leadership has destroyed our reputation as being “the good guys” in the world. We are hated everywhere now because of the failed policies of Republican let the rich get richer and the poor don’t deserve help philosophy. What is McCain’s view of this? Denial, especially if you listen to his running mate. What is Obama’s? He is realistic about it, and wants to restore faith in America. McCain? Increase spending on the military, cease to talk to anyone who disagrees, and bomb the hell out of anything that moves.

    To me, what is relevant? Not his grades. His health? Yes, for the same reason as McCain. But now to suggest (again, completely, utterly slanderous heresay) that McCain’s IQ is higher than Obama’s? Are you seriously willing to suggest that there is proof of THAT, or that it is even relevant? Should Bush have been held against an IQ standard? Oh how I wish that that were true. We would not be in this mess today killing hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq including our own dedicated Men and Women, still hunting for the bad guy 8 years later, the economy in disaster and the national debt at an all-time high.

    The problem is, people want to keep asking over, and over, and over again the truly trivial questions in hopes of finding some tiny fingerhold to justify their irrational fears. It’s a waste of time, particularly when the *relevant* questions have already been answered, long ago. Berg is a perfect example. His ridiculous frivolous lawsuit where he claims personal damage because Obama hasn’t given him personal access to his birth certificate is pure, unadulterated nonsense; but it has led to a large group of lawyer wannabes and pseudo-analysts claiming things like “They admitted it! By not answering they admitted it!” – when in reality, they know nothing of how the legal system actually works. I know enough about the legal system to know that unless you are a lawyer, your analysis of court action is worthless, because you have no idea how it actually works.

    What I care about is a) what the person elected will do to seek to resolve our current financial crisis (I believe eliminating tax breaks for the wealthy and supporting the *real* middle class (not the wealthiest 5% of the country) is good for this country), b) how are they going to get our valuable serving Men and Women out of a war we should never have entered into (Afghanistan is a different story), c) whether the President has the class, diplomacy, temperament, and intelligence to deal with foreign governments good and bad, and d) how he is going to resolve the basic human need of health care.

    Those are my top issues, and those are to me among the issues that should be uniting the country. Instead, we are wasting endless amounts of babble on whether the man’s grandmother remembers Kenya.

    Bottom line: If a story has relevance, and accuracy, and basis in fact, the media reports it. If is is frivolous, irrelevant, and unimportant to how we fix our situation, it is relegated to the back page, as I believe it should be. It is not a perfect system, but it works the majority of the time.

  31. (33) Can you point to me where in the Constitution that the POTUS gives up his rights to privacy?

    (35) Did you just say “bruthas”? Do you really want to open this up to Race as a reason? Because thus far I have been very careful not to address the racist remarks that I see constantly, where good white folk won’t admit that the real fear here involves what I saw on posters at Palin rallies…I haven’t brought that up to keep the conversation on a higher plain. Do you want to bring that up?

  32. It’s really interesting to me how “uncertainty” is the keyword of our times. It applies to the financial crisis on a daily basis, to the terror and security threats all over the world, and to Obama / Palin / McCain / Biden’s qualifications for office.

    Horatiox and Glenn I do think Obama is “hiding” a bit of his past in an effort to make sure he’s (correctly) seen as a liberal Democrat and strategically to keep as little informatoin from detractors as possible – a good campaign strategy. I certainly don’t think it is reasonable to give credibility to Corsi and the Obama bashing gang who are reporting things so subjectively and inaccurately that they have done a lot more to distort the truth than promote it. Obama should *not* cooperate with them in any way – it’s like asking a crime victim to give info to the criminal to help him commit a new crime. These info requests are not about public disclosure – they are fishing expeditions for any tidbits that can be used against Obama. Sure, I like disclosure but in this climate going “above and beyond” what is legally required is not called for by any means by either candidate.

    Glenn McCain has not been all that forthcoming either. His extensive medical records were only viewable by a handful of folks for a few hours as I understand it. Also, McCain has a lot of interesting characters in his past that have remained in the shadows of media attention. This includes his first wife who was treated very poorly, women from some of his affairs, crooks like Keating, and many more. More importantly McCain did not appear to take his school or military education seriously. If his IQ is higher than Obama’s you sure wouldn’t know it from the debates or candidate comments – to me, Obama generally comes off as brighter and more thoughtful and I think this is a key factor in his success so far.

  33. (36) Sorry but there is a real possibility that Obama had foreign assistance with school. I think it is important to understand who is connected to him.

    One of the potential connections is with a very serious radical Saudi.

    You talk about unity but all Obama does is create these rifts and hides behind legalese which is whats causes people to split apart. Imagine what it would have been like if Obama just opened up his past and told the whole story – what could possibly be so bad to keep it from all of us?

    Hillary has done it, McCain has done it, Biden has done it and even Palin has done…oh yeah don’t forget Joe the Plumber had no choice with his privacy the Dem hit squad just violated the law, pulled some strings and we new everything about Joe the Plumber in 72 hours…seriously the hypocrisy is unbelievable. This isn’t leadership this is about a lawyer creating perception to win over a jury – that’s the main problem with having attorney’s in executive positions.

    As far as their grades I could really care less. It is the fact that he has to cover everything up.

    I would argue Obama is not a patriot. Just like I would argue anyone that would have a direct association with Bin Laden could never be a patriot. Anyone that financially supports and participates in a church of hate with Rev Wright could not possibly be a patriot – it just doesn’t make any sense.

    Why do you keep bring up race? None of us are even discussing that. I don’t even look at Barack as black (Horatiox I could have said red here right now…lol)

    But seriously this race stuff is ridiculous. Anyone who votes for Barack because he is black is just as much a fool as anyone who doesn’t vote for him because he isn’t white.

    I am satisfied with a one page summary about their health – people should be allowed privacy when comes to their health.

    Trivial questions? My concern is a far left socialist leaning agenda bolstered by a liberal in the Whitehouse, a liberal running congress and liberals hijacking the judicial branch. That my friend is not trivial.

    I am also deeply concerned over the economy. Barack will put us in a deep depression.

    (37) Can you show me where it is said because you ask a question of a presidential candidate and the answer
    exposes the emperor that you have to lose your right to privacy?

  34. The emotional manipulation of the Democrats and Obamaites (as witnessed by Metro’s posts, for instance) offends at least as much as the honest greed of the right does.

    I don’t care for Obama, or what he represents, and don’t agree with his economic proposals, regardless if he beats McCain at Toastmasters . Therefore, I won’t vote for Obama. That’s still allowed, for the time being, at least until ACORNOcrats register some 2/3s of America as Democratic-socialists and then vote themselves into power in perpetuity. I mean that in good way of course, Brutha Metro. Lay some skin on me, you jive talking turkey.

  35. (38) Joe do you realize the stuff they could be doing to Michelle Obama and yet they don’t? How do you reconcile that?

    The difference with McCain you can clearly see his voting record for over two decades you can also see what decisions he has made over and over again that support his country even over his personal gain.

    We don’t have that opportunity with Obama, he is the most inexperienced candidate to ever run for office…so what do you suggest we do? Just accept it that he doesn’t want to tell us stuff because it could hurt him politically? That is just foolish.

    You are about to commit a HUGE choice at some of the most troublesome times this country has ever faced and can you sit here and say that you are completely comfortable with the Obama story? Or do you just want to roll the dice and hope he was just mistaken with his voting record and his associations?

    Hope is not a strategy. Obama’s relationships were not a coincidence nor were they accidental. His voting record was not a mistake. You all know exactly what he going to do when he gets into office with Pelosi. Huge spending, huge taxes on 100% of America, reduction of our individual rights, nationalization of health care, retirement plans, banking industry and probably the insurance industry.

    At the same time making our country the #1 most expensive location to headquarter a company.

  36. Metroknow you have to admit Horatiox’s way of saying things is actually quite creative and pretty darn funny. I truly don’t think he means anything racist in the comments.

    I think he is very creative in his wording that with all the metonymy it drives a clarity that is quite profound.

    And I literally find myself chuckling with his comments even when I don’t agree.


    BTW this stuff tends to get pretty heated however we can all remain civil and we don’t have to throw the race card at each other. I would truly hope we are ALL well above that crap.

  37. You know you guys may not like NewsBusters, etc…

    But this stuff about Khalid is pretty serious and there definitely seems to be a direct connection to him.

    Personally I don’t have a problem with whomever Obama wants to be friends with, associate with or even help as long as we are told the truth about it. That way each voter can decide whether this is important or not.


    LA Times writer Peter Wallsten wrote about Barack Obama’s close association with former Palestinian operative Rashid Khalidi back in April.

    “During the dinner a young Palestinian American recited a poem accusing the Israeli government of terrorism in its treatment of Palestinians and sharply criticizing U.S. support of Israel. If Palestinians cannot secure their own land, she said, “then you will never see a day of peace.”

    One speaker likened “Zionist settlers on the West Bank” to Osama bin Laden, saying both had been “blinded by ideology.”

    ….His many talks with the Khalidis, Obama said, had been “consistent reminders to me of my own blind spots and my own biases… It’s for that reason that I’m hoping that, for many years to come, we continue that conversation — a conversation that is necessary not just around Mona and Rashid’s dinner table,” but around “this entire world.”

    …The event was videotaped, and a copy of the tape was obtained by The Times.

  38. Glenn if Obama has his exact same personal history but had McCain’s platform would you be worried about his past so much?

    Is there anything in McCain’s past that concerns you in any way?

  39. (45) Sure his liberal voting record…lol

    But lets assume they are completely equal and we know the same about both.

    Two main factors impact my decision:

    1) Obama knowingly engaged in a relationship over many years with an admitted terrorist. Obama has not been honest about the relationship – that in my mind only means one thing: Obama doesn’t really want me to know exactly how deep and far the relationship has gone.

    2) Dem POTUS, Dem SOH, Dem SCOTUS – that dog won’t hunt in my neck of the woods. I would always vote opposite party in this situation.

    Consider a scenario Joe…what if after the election we do find out something really bad in regard to Obama and he is impeached.

    Biden POTUS, Pelosi VPOTUS…talk about a nightmare scenario.

  40. (45) My vote is far more strategic to what I think is best for the country. Having the same party in power across all three branches is very scary…regardless of party. Typically it never works out and during the midterm we always change as so goes the historical record on this.

    Like I have said I am a fiscal conservative and social moderate with one major caveat…I tend to more often pro-life than I am pro-choice. So I really don’t fit in any party.

    As much as I don’t think McCain is a fiscal conservative I find myself more inline socially with him and not as conservative as Palin.

    In regard to Obama/Biden and quite frankly the far left – I think they are fiscally irresponsible and just go way too far on social issues.

    With everything we need a balance and we truly need a meeting in the middle of road to bring this country back together and quite frankly if anyone believes this country is going to be unified after this election they just want to believe in a fairytale. Quite frankly I blame the DNC for not putting up a candidate that could actually bring policy and people together in a bi-partisan manner.

    Really a shame it could have had a huge positive impact when this country needs it most.

    Regardless I wish there would be some accountability in Washington but to seems to just be a fairytale.

  41. (45) BTW…the last time I voted for a political party was during Reagan and I am sure I will never party vote or be part of a political party ever again.

    The two party system just ruins this country and divides us.

    Why not have candidates run on their own platforms and let Americans vote for who best matches them and not some schizophrenic ideological party?

    The reasoning…on a national level the majority of the country will vote for moderates and who truly represents the majority of America and the local voters will get exactly who matches their regional needs.

    National positions in congress should be voted on through referendums during the time between the vote and new session starts. The country should be able to pick who is the Speaker of House, etc…

  42. (45) You know what else Joe the electoral college should be dumped. It is ridiculous how our elections are run. It should be popular vote – PERIOD.

    Campaign finance should be set at the same value and have it grow with inflation. National campaigns set at a value and regional campaigns adjusted for market costs, etc.

    You should be able to buy an election.

    PACS should go.

    Lobbyists should go.

    Earmarks should go.

    Get the trend…I tend to pick on all the things that lead to corruption. 🙂

  43. There is absolutely nothing done by Obama in this election that even remotely begins to reach the level of obstruction of justice.

  44. I’m going to respectfully step away from the discussion for a while (family calls) – And Horatiox, while I clearly disagree with you on the fundamentals, I gotta agree with Glenn that you’ve got a way with words, and I do look forward to your comments. Even if they are overlayed in Reynolds Wrap. 🙂

    (48 and 49) Glenn, you may not believe this, but my God Man, we actually agree 100% on something for once! While I am obviously not a fan of Reaganomics, Bushism, and the continuance of the same via the Good Old Boys (although I am not sure if Sarah is Bo, Luke, or Daisy Mae), I am actually not a Democrat either – I hate the two party system, and think it is fundamentally bad for the country. I think in this case Obama has the best chance at real change, relative to what is possible in our current system, BUT…I agree with you on basically every point you just outlined. Well done. On the basis of economics, had there not been such blatant misinformation a la Joe the Plumber and co., I might be more inclined to take it seriously. But when McCainites blatantly distort tax policy, hoping that people won’t check it for themselves, ya lose me.

    To be honest, I actually like McCain. I deeply respect the man for his record of service, his outspoken nature (I remember wondering if he was even a Republican years ago based on his concern for the non-rich), and his obvious Patriotism. However, while I might have considered him more seriously with a better running mate, his selection of Sarah Palin was the tipping point for me. I feel like she was chosen as a patsy by a party that knew it was doomed in this election thanks to 8 years of disaster and economic ruin, and they needed someone who didn’t have a political future to take the fall. Had McCain picked a person with real world-class leadership ability, it would have been a much tougher choice.

    As I said, duty calls here, but I have enjoyed the discussion. And Yes, I certainly hope we’re getting some hits for Joe – Thanks Joe for hosting such an enjoyable and vigorous debate!

    Best to all,

  45. (52) I’ve maintained all along that if McCain had picked a moderate woman, someone who could have reached out to the disaffected Hillary voters, this election would be looking a lot different than it does.

    Most disaffected Hillary voters look at Palin and see their worst nightmare, not a reasonable alternative.

  46. Most disaffected Hillary voters look at Palin and see their worst nightmare

    Exactly correct. Incredibly I don’t think McCain understood that at the time of the pick – he seemed to think “many Democratic women will support a woman”.

  47. (52,53) I guess I don’t understand what the problem with Palin is. When you look at her record and really review her accomplishments I don’t see anything scary. I see a very successful woman who beat down a corrupt system and made significant change.

    And I guess this is where I have a serious disconnect with Obama. I look at his record and his accomplishments and I see someone who only does something that is politically expedient for themselves and has a very liberal voting record.

    So I guess it comes down to believing his rhetoric which has no basis on his track record and somehow he is going to magically change.

    So I think this election decision is about emotion more than fact.

    It is a fact that Palin has more relevant experience for the job than Obama does.

    Can someone tell me specifically what is so scary about Palin?

  48. (56) They are not saying Berg is a nut. But we should also look carefully at the Berg decision it is actually kind of scary. Stating we as voters don’t have a right to challenge someone who is running for President on their basis for eligibility.

    BTW currently the FEC does not require any background check or validation of birth to enter the presidential race.

    Not that I want to start any conspiracy but the judge has ties back to that same exact law firm that Obama worked for with Michelle and Dohrn.

    I am not giving any endorsement for Berg but what is so ridiculous is that Obama could have released his vault birth certificate the same one he mentions in his book and all of this money, time and hassle would have been avoided. He could have very easily responded with the birth certificate with an Attorney’s eyes only clause and Berg couldn’t have gone public with it and judge could have given a ruling based on substance and not legal avoidance.

  49. Can someone explain the following quote from James Cone:

    If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him.

    Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy.

    The US is a white racist nation. The white church is the Antichrist. Obama’s church of 20 years most embodies my message.

    So how in the world does the media give this a pass? How is this acceptable in any way shape or form? How is this anti-American hate USA speech ever going to bring this country together?

    How is it that the very church Obama financially supported, attended for over 20 years, got married in, had his children baptized in doesn’t bother you?

    There is no doubt that Cone and Wright are racists. So why is it ok that Obama has directly supported a platform of racism in this country? How is it different than a David Duke?

    I find this part of Obama’s life to be pretty offensive.

  50. Not the “law”, exactly: one Judge, Surrick, decided to toss out Berg’s case. (now it’s headed to SCOTUS). Not surprising: most of the Fed judiciary tend to be yoplait-sucking bureaucrats, if not wannabe De Sades. Note Surrick’s mini-justification: Berg could not prove harm. In other words, the usual legal BS. It wasn’t about harm, but about “vetting” and proving BO’s citizenship via a vaulted COLB (Obama himself admits to having dual citizenship as child, quite rare).

    The legal business however generally has little interest in mundane affairs such as proof or verification (or even evidence), but in decorum. Order. ORDNUNG! Anyway, assuming BO was properly “vetted” (unlikely), there are other grounds to oppose him. For one, Obama’s a tax and spend, big govt., pro-union, and pro-entitlement liberal: LBJ/Billy Bob Clinton Redux (probably worse, really). Sufficient reason, as they used to say.

  51. (60) The country would be ok with another Clinton. The country is not going to do well with a McGovern + Carter approach.

    Interesting the editorials around the country are coming out pretty strong against Obama’s tax plans.

    There is a 10 million American march planned if he is elected – around one theme – STOP INCOME REDISTRIBUTION…

    Also watch for Plumbergate to expand rapidly this week.

  52. This is the future of our country…this happened yesterday in Florida. The GOP poll watchers had their mandatory training yesterday and during the training they were told by the person in charge of GOP election day activities that the Obama campaigned successfully sued to get a copy of all email correspondence between him and the Supervisor of Elections.

    Within that information included all the names and addresses of all the poll watchers. The poll watchers were told to expect letters from Obama’s attorneys threatening the poll watchers with jail time they in any way “interfered with the election process”. Of course given the approach taken by the SOS in Ohio just trying validate someone would be considered interference.

    Obama’s campaign is a bunch of thugs. PERIOD.

    Now we have legal intimidation involved for people that are volunteering their time to help with this election and to make sure it is fair and the rules are followed. Seriously WTF?

  53. If somebody interferes with the election process they should go to jail.

    Nothing wrong with warning them.

    The Unites States Supreme Court agreed with the Secretary of State of Ohio 9 to 0.

  54. Yes, those ACORNocrats now filling out blank reg. forms a few days before election day should go to jail. Whaddup homie! Make some sh**t up for the peoples: Laquanda, uh, Lasheequa, Jackson. Or Johnson. Or use some jap stuff, dawg: Xing Pao. Xang Pei.

  55. (63) SCOTUS did not agree with SOS in Ohio. Why do you always spin it. SCOTUS ruling was they were going to interfere with the process in Ohio. It was a technicality and as they say the most politically expedient choice for their own skin. SCOTUS ruling had nothing to do with the merit on ether side in Ohio. JCH you should really lay off the kool-aid.

    And it isn’t appropriate to intimidate anyone in the election process. ALL of these poll watchers are instructed on the law and they understand. They don’t volunteer because they want to interfere. They volunteer because they are patriots and to think anyone would condone warning letters from the legal team of one of the candidates is simply daft.

  56. It’s fine with me if employees who are defrauding ACORN are punished. ACORN tells their employees ACORN will turn them in to the authorities if they involve themselves in registration fraud. And they have, in fact, done that.

    All scientific studies have found that registration fraud seldom ever results in election fraud. Because, as I’m sure you understand, if Mickey Mouse actually shows up to vote, he has to prove he’s a legitimate voter.

    The stats are that virtually 100% of all fraudulent registrations never show up to vote.

    But all the hysteria about ACORN being defrauded by their own employees is touching. It makes me feel so good to have nation that cares so much about its community activist organizations. Cool.

  57. (67) JCH there is rampant voter fraud happening. Districts in Ohio are reporting over 40% fraudulent absentee ballots including those that were part of the ACORN drive.

    FBI is investigating ACORN now in 16 states and in ALL 16 states they are finding fraud.

    You just won’t ever admit the truth when it comes to anything Democrat.

  58. Implement like a reading comprehension test, maybe some Pie Graphs, etc at CA voting-booths, and the Demos would be S O L. No se nada, jefe.

  59. (67) And it goes to the very top in ACORN. This is a systemic problem within the organization. You don’t have ongoing fraud issues over a period of 10 years without fixing the problem. This comes down to a training issue – they are training their employees to commit fraud.

    Oh yeah Obama was one of their trainers once…makes sense.

    Oh yeah ACORN is supposed to be bi-partisan and that is how they receive millions in tax payer dollars…oh wait they only support the messiah.

    Oh yeah Obama paid ACORN over $832k and they have had to amend the reason for paying ACORN twice now – yet Biden claims the Obama campaign has NOT paid one cent to ACORN – utter BS.

    Oh yeah the brother of the founder of ACORN embezzled over $1 million dollars including tax payer monies yet ACORN didn’t report this MAJOR crime.

    ACORN isn’t corrupt, it doesn’t go all the way to the top and ACORN has nothing to do with the Democratic party.

    Stop lacing your frosted flakes in the morning!

  60. (69) Absolutely…not to mention that ACORN aka Obama Voting Fraud Squad takes advantage and manipulates the uniformed.

    Does anyone think it is right that ACORN just goes out to homeless shelters, drug addicts, criminals and tells them to vote for Obama? Doesn’t that just sound absurd?

    Hardworking Americans do not take kindly to this type of voter manipulation. Maybe if ACORN actually held non-partisan workshops to teach the uniformed about the issues and did it truthfully and then helped them vote. No wait that makes too much sense. That is to morally and ethically correct and it certainly isn’t PC.

  61. If it’s an editorial, it ain’t necessarily the truth.

    LMAO. In the United States of America a citizen has every right to hire a lawyer.

  62. ACORN trains its employees to not commit registration fraud.

    It’s sort of like McDonalds. They train their employees to not steal cash from the cash registers, and yet, they persistently do just that. They train their employees to not bring in card readers to steal credit card numbers, and yet, they have had employees do that.

    Of course, you want to hold ACORN to some imaginary standard that does not exist.

    The Republicans consistently obstructs any registration system that is directed toward both accuracy and maximum participation of eligible voters. Why? Because they do not want the full participation of American citizens in elections.

  63. “You just won’t ever admit the truth when it comes to anything Democrat. …”

    What I won’t admit to is your false truths, like the one I eviscerated about military voting. Do you realize you posted a total lie as though it was truth?

    Well, okay, I withdraw the question. Not very fair of me.

  64. Really, I don’t think the usual frat-boy liberal understands the implications of an Obama vote, Mr. Glenn. That Barack outperforms old McCain in debates, looks more professional, was blessed by Colin Powell or the Clintons, etc. has celebrity vibe, etc. shouldn’t concern us, whatsoever. His voting record, his economic and political proposals, and his past associations SHOULD concern us, however.

    Few if any of the pro-Obama bloggers have even bothered to examine BO’s very liberal voting record in IL, nor do they seem concerned with the vetting issue, or his ties to muslim groups and individuals (like one Edward Said: a palestinian marxist and professor who more or less called for the destruction of Israel).


    Most of the Obamamites just made some emotional decision (if not bandwagon type fallacy): most of their peer group or co-workers support Obama, so they will too. They simply don’t want the details: who cares if BO partied with Comrade Said, or the saudi royal family, various muslims, reds, or worked for various Chicago mobsters. Doesn’t matter to blogocrats. Ignorance is Strength.

  65. There literally tens of thousands of paper and internet stories about supposedly widespread election fraud on the indian reservation in South Dakota.

    That was before the election. The people making the charges absolutely knew with certainty that their accusations were positively false.

    And yet, they persisted. Why? because they’re scum. Human waste in skin. Chit sausages.

    After the election, the exceptionally conservative Republican Attorney General of South Dakota completed his exceedingly thorough examination of all charges and determined that each and every one of them was “flat false.”

    That is basically the trend here.

  66. In general editorials are not places one finds much “truth”, but there are exceptions:

    “Gov. Palin’s nomination clearly alters the landscape for Alaskans as we survey this race for the presidency — but it does not overwhelm all other judgment. The election, after all is said and done, is not about Sarah Palin, and our sober view is that her running mate, Sen. John McCain, is the wrong choice for president at this critical time for our nation.

    Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic nominee, brings far more promise to the office. In a time of grave economic crisis, he displays thoughtful analysis, enlists wise counsel and operates with a cool, steady hand. The same cannot be said of Sen. McCain. …” – Anchorage Daily News

  67. Not knee jerk at all. More Nietzschean, if you want some intellectual justification. We are not obligated to support liberalism, or socialism, or any ism (even conservativism), and thereby empower “chandala” are we. BO has consistently supported big govt., and tax and spend policies as IL state senator: LBJ redux, with more than a few socialist hints. Obama also wants more gun control for that matter.

    The Sally Fields-like liberals who INSIST that we MUST vote for St. Barack, The One, are the “knee jerk reactionaries”. AS Hume, master of RealPolitik, cogently argued many years ago, values, or supposed values are not facts, nor capable of rational demonstration, except in the sense of choosing a policy or candidate who will advance one’s own interests . Adam Smith shared that secular view as well.

    BOocracy does not serve our best interests, unless maybe you are a welfare mamacita, or homies living in Section 8 crack-chateaus in the ‘burbs, or illegal immigrants (and BO supports an open border). The yoplait suckers out in the ‘burbs simply don’t know what Team Obama or urban leftists are about.

  68. Knee? Check.

    Twitching? Check.

    Knee-jerk reactionary? Check.

    And dude, I have lived in either inner-city dallas or inner-city Houston, uninterrupted, since 1980. My children exclusively attended either DISD or HISD – inner-city public schools for every grade.

  69. More PC rhetoric. Some of us don’t engage in the little DailyKOS circle jerk.

    No obligations means….no obligations. Those humans who side with Obama side not only with St. Barack and the Demo congress, they side with the crips, the radical muslims, the leftist “community activists”. Nuff said.

  70. I gave you facts; you give us hogwash.

    Hogwash – total right-wing hogwash.

    And that is why it is finally losing like crazy. People are finally getting how stupid it is.

  71. At this stage in the game, it’s probably “sleepin’ wit da fishes” time for any judges or govt. officials who stand in the way of the Obama posse. BO’s probably got Don Tony Scalia on his side too, given Scalia’s somewhat anti-GOP rhetoric. At least SCOTUS recently decided to re-ratify the 2nd Amendment, jus’ in case we need ’em when the jubilee starts.

  72. That reminds me. I need to shift my investments over to aluminum foil makers. Can you guys look on one of your many boxes and tell me who makes it? And do you prefer the classic cone, or more of a fedora style.

    By the way, cattle mutilations are also up.

  73. Obviously an advanced case of Obama-cult mania, Mr Glenn, brought on by too much DailyKOS, Huffpo, CBS, NYT, etc. Not much use in discussing anything further. The Democrat herd mind went into effect last spring when Obama paid off the HRC delegates.

  74. Robert Rubin on Zakaria today. He’s always one of the most impressive observers of the economy, and distinguished as one of the few Secty’s of treasury who presided over a Federal balanced budget. Main point was that we need to do more to address mortgages at home and bank level to stabilize things and that he wanted a *huge* stimulous package – probably not in the form of tax rebates because they don’t tend to hit economy fast enough and are often saved.

    Rubin is Obama’s economic advisor (along with Volker, Buffett, Summers). Rubin was very complimentary of Obama’s style and intellect.

  75. Ah Rubin: one of Clinton’s gang who brought us NAFTA and de-reg. G-sachs guy as well, isn’t he. Obama has no problem siding with conservatives when it’s in his best interest, as with his support of the Bush/Paulson bailout. (btw, I have never defended Bushco, or said vote McCain anyway: just not supporting BO–I was slightly for HRC, initially).

  76. Are you again implying that you, MetroKnow, are acquainted with all the details regarding Obama’s political and legal career in Chicago? Seems so. SO Rezko never happened…and we needn’t worry about all those Obama cases that have been sealed, and are now offlimits to journalists. Vetting, schmetting.

    The gullibility of Democrats never fails to astound.

  77. I just think it is funny that Obama has no problem telling the world that he would attack a country like Pakistan but he is afraid to tell the world about his college days and his birth certificate.

    Obama must be living in opposite day most of the time. He just does the opposite what you should do.

    (92) Funny how McCain was the first person to say we need to do something in the form of a stimulus to help mortgage holders but of course Obama attacked him on it.

    Obama/Pelosi/Reid we are looking at the biggest expansion of the federal deficit in history but don’t worry as the corrupt Barney Frank just said this defict fear needs to be shelved for now.

    The only thing we can really hope for is that Obama tries to ban ALL guns in this country just like he tried in IL. Once he starts down that path then real change will truly begin to happen in this country.

  78. Considering I’m not a Democrat…I just don’t believe in conspiracy theories based on a tiny piece of evidence and 99% overactive, desperate, fearful imagination. Kinda’ like self-proclaimed birth certificate “experts” who cry foul without ever having seen a shred of evidence in person. It’s a consider the source thing. And considering these discussions always devolve into racial epithets, that explains it all to me. no substance, no attention.

  79. There is no double standard…not at all…

    Former CBS anchorman Dan Rather says there is a huge double-standard in the media when it comes to coverage the Barack Obama campaign receives, which is clearly made evident in the lack of scrutiny given to comments Obama’s vice presidential running mate Sen. Joe Biden made earlier this week.

    “Certainly if Sarah Palin had said this, it would be above the fold in most newspapers today,” Rather said. “But let me point out that what happens on the Internet may be as important, or more important, than what’s happening in newspapers,” he added, referring to the spotty mainstream media coverage.

    “I’ll be surprised if this doesn’t have a run on the Internet, because if Sarah Palin had said this, the newspapers would have jumped all over it, and so would the major television outlets.”

    I am shocked that Dan Rather would say such a thing.

  80. Early voting results coming out of CA.

    Early votes received between Democrats and Republicans show Democrats at this point only have 1000 more Democrats casting early than Republicans. Considering what the polls are showing CA the Democrats should at this point have 36,000 more votes received so far.

    Major assumption: Democrats are voting for Obama, Republicans are voting for McCain.

  81. It’s election time, and anything which makes Chairman Barack look bad is frowned upon by his followers: a similar thing happened when like Lenin was chosen Premier by the bolsheviks: no attacks on Comrade Lenin, the leader of the Proletariat! That’s happening to lesser extent with St. Barack. You have faith in Barack’s honesty, and competence, virtue, etc. You don’t have proof (we do have proof of his LBJ style politics however–his IL voting record).

    Politics involves conspiracy: that’s what the Kossacks and the rest have been whining about for years. It’s completely naive to think the Democrats are pure, good and above bribes or malfeasance or racketeering (especially when most agreed to GOP plans in regards to the Iraqi war, economy, FISA, etc.).

  82. I’m going to post this in a political thread as that beautiful photograph doesn’t deserve being involved in this smackdown.

    Captain – Bush
    Chief Officer – AlAyn GreenRandSpam
    2nd Officer – Karl Rove
    Chief Engineer – Christopher Cox
    Chief Steward – Alphonso Jackson

    ship’s crew – national Association of Home Builders, the National Association of Realtors, and the Mortgage Bankers Association

  83. Horatiox and Glenn – sure, it would be naive to assume Dems (or Reps) are pure as the driven snow – they are not. But you must also avoid the naivete of the skeptic where even the purest motives are wrongly attributed to malice or opportunism. Obama’s trip to see his Grandmother is a great example – it was almost certainly a final farewell and nothing more. Yet many suggested some nefarious motives. All of the Obama criticisms I’ve tracked down have led to trumped up concerns about things that are likely to reveal little or nothing about his character. On the other side are those who have long term, quality records of public and private action and service (e.g. Powell, Rubin, McCain), all of whom suggest Obama is a good guy. To assume otherwise is to *ignore* the preponderance of evidence. That, I would argue, is actually more naive than believing the conventional wisdom.

    Obama is a politician for sure, but I don’t see his IL records as indicating more than a politically ambitious and dedicated liberal democrat. That alone should leave somebody open to a lot of criticism, but not of the type he’s getting wrt red-baiting, citizenship, Kenya births.

    Yes, we need a new party of fiscally savvy small Government independents. Ain’t going to happen this time. In the meantime I’ve voting for the smart guy who surrounds himself with smart people.

  84. So Glenn – you are stuck on a deserted island for EIGHT long years and you can only pick ONE person to be there with you. Biden and McCain have drowned…

    Are you going to pick Obama or Palin?

    Oh, wait… ummm never mind:

  85. (108) Seriously Joe 8 years…there is only one choice any other choice would be foolish. Palin is the choice for multiple reasons:

    1) She can hunt
    2) She will not sit around and wait for some government to come and bail you out
    3) She is a she

    Now think about this…Obama in the same swimsuit walk…it that enough to change your mind…lol

  86. Reviewing data from Florida and Ohio vote suppression efforts in 2004. Very alarming. However some of the Colorado concerns for this year’s suppression efforts seem to be hyped up.

    Most interesting is the affadavit from a computer programmer Clint Curtis insisting that a congressman Tom Feeney from Florida wanted to rig the vote.

    Glenn was this a big story there? Apparently the Curtis guy ran against Feeney for congress and lost, but did pass a polygraph about the bizarre incident which Feeney states he cannot even remember. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis#Initial_allegations_against_Yang_Enterprises_and_Tom_Feeney

  87. Glenn we can definitely agree on the desert island vote ….. she really looks good in that suit and I think they should add one to her 150k wardrobe ASAP.

    What’s this about Yang enterprises and voting machine fraud? Seems it would be easy to track down the truth there…

  88. One small problem with the 150k wardrobe…how come no one is discussing how it cost $400k for Obama to fly to Hawaii last week.

    $20k an hour is the cost for his jet.

    Obama used the Boeing 757 for trips to Hawaii over the summer for a vacation and again last week to see his failing grandmother. Admirable though that visit was, By Obama using a private jet to go on a purely personal visit to see his grandma, he’s wasting not only energy, but he’s using the money that his supporters have given him for campaign purposes. It’s a purely personal visit paid for with campaign funds.

  89. McCain travels by private jet. For campaign business he uses his campaign money for private he pays privately. His wife has a jet.

    MK I will have to find the IL state records again. Unfortunately they have been taking more of records offline I have to go back in wayback machine to find the copies.

    Joe I might have to email you the voting records so you can send to MK. MK one of the most alarming is a total gun ban for the state of IL that Obama tried to create.

  90. Glenn the Forbes piece seemed to be very out of touch to me. He was arguing both sides – one that Obama is popular with Iran Govt and second that he’s not popular with “the masses”.

    I’m very skeptical of his take on this which didn’t even seem to be well informed. Obama’s election will diffuse a lot of the tension in the moderate Muslim world, not increase it. Obama’s international appeal increases our options dramatically – allowing the US to simultaneuously challenge with weapons and diplomacy.

  91. Joe listen to Obama:

    He is a socialist…and a radical. He will destroy this country and is going to lead to extreme levels of violence in this country.

    Internationally he is going to be looked at as a pawn and countries are going to take advantage of his naivety.

    Get ready he is going to lose this election unless his fraudulent voting activities are successful.

  92. Does anyone else fine these commentaries about racism disturbing?

    Newsweek’s Jonathan Alter – Only racism could prevent President Obama

    Philly Inquirer – All whites are racists, shouldn’t be allowed to vote

    It seems like the raging liberal loons are throwing ALL IN with this election – don’t they realize the backlash is going to be severe if Obama loses the election? Once again the liberal plan is going to hurt the people they are so desperately trying to help.

    The racism discussion in this country has gotten so repulsive. It is all about hate from the left and it is just so wrong.

  93. Here is a thought:

    It is rare that the government can get a bad person to do a good thing.

    However it is common that a government can get a good person to do something bad.

    Doesn’t it all seem backwards?

  94. Now we see more of how a Democrat will blindly chase the destruction of another person’s character to try to get into office. – this is a disgrace.

    When Josh Mandel got a call from the Marines last year asking him to return voluntarily to Iraq, he had much more to contemplate than when he first enlisted in 2000. He had just been elected to the Ohio state legislature. Family considerations were also important to him. He ultimately decided to serve a second tour in Iraq “because I didn’t join the Marine Corps to say no when my country called,” Mr. Mandel explains.

    Of all the factors he weighed, Mr. Mandel says political concerns were not among them. Now he has been forced to deal with the politics of that decision. The opponent in his tough re-election fight, trial attorney Bob Belovich, is attacking Mr. Mandel’s service, arguing that he abandoned voters. Mr. Belovich’s wife, Barbara, acknowledged in an interview for this column that she has told voters that Mr. Mandel “went AWOL” (a military term for desertion) by fighting in Iraq.

    Even Mr. Mandel’s motives for serving in Iraq are being questioned. Mrs. Belovich claimed in an interview with this columnist that Mandel “put his personal ambitions ahead of his constituents.” Asked why anyone would enter a war zone out of “personal ambition,” Barbara Belovich replied curtly, “Certainly he wasn’t serving our needs.”

    Story continues here…


  95. This is a perfect example of the left loon hypocrisy. This is about an unrepentant abortion clinic bomber who tried to become a college professor and the absurdity surrounding the while William Ayers BS.

    For the record I think this person, Ayers and Dohrn should be in jail for life or have been given the death sentence. People like this do nothing for society.


  96. Lew Rockwell says don’t vote:

    “This year especially there is no lesser of two evils. There is socialism or fascism. The true American spirit should guide every voter to have no part of either.”

    Some might consider that the usual 3rd party quack BS, but I suggest there’s ample evidence to support Lew’s claim.

  97. It is now almost comical to watch most of the unFair and unBalanced FOX folks report on the election. Crestfallen anchors like Martha frown as she plays an old 2001 radio clip of Obama in which he uses the word “redistributive”.

    I hear pretty much no challenge of any of the Republican talking points and generally a lot of repetition of those, especially the latest which are “socialism” and “share the wealth”.

  98. Glenn RE: Small business guy’s odd comparisons.

    Glenn! Even if his numbers are right then he’ll be worse off under McCain.

    It is *so well established* that Obama’s cuts are higher for people in his 75k-100k range bracket I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here.

    The Joe the Plumber argument by McCain is just a huge distortion and lie – Obama, on average, promotes a lower small business tax until the biz is over (approx) 250k.

    That may be a bad idea economically because it is the obviously a larger business tends to produce more jobs and wealth, but the math is clear – Obama’s taxes are lower until you start making more money than all but about 5% of Americans make.

  99. Hi all- I am just popping in to see the discussion. Very interesting. Good to see some of “ya’ll” again. I’ll be around. reading and learning.

  100. Take a look at Obama’s voting record as IL senator; he’s been voted the most liberal senator in America by various groups (not all GOP), in terms of favoring tax increases, govt. spending, hand-outs, bureaucracy, etc.. It’s difficult not to place that record in the class of “socialism”, though I think Obama’s become slightly more conservative, economically speaking, that he was say five years ago–probably just for sake of appearances (as with having Robert “NAFTA” Rubin and Buffett as his econ. advisors). At the same time, McCain himself has consistently supported big govt. policies, and of course the military. That’s Rockwell’s point (and the libertarians). Demopublican statism, either way you cut it.

  101. Demopublican statism, either way you cut it.

    This is a point I won’t argue with. Both McCain and Obama strongly support a continuation of our supersized government, supersized military, huge taxation, and progressive redistribution of wealth. Also, the president does not drive the economy as much as candidates or voters like to think.

  102. In any comparison that truly counts all forms of taxation, taxation rates are high in all of the countries in which I would consider living.

  103. JCH – yes, a good though nuanced issue. All countries and societies practice wealth distribution and the most advanced ones tend to hammer the rich harder than anybody and have very complicated progressive taxation as we do here. Bill Gates pays truckloads of taxes where Somalia warlords pay none. If you listed quality of life in a country it would be very correlated with high taxes.

    However correlation is not causation. I think in the high standards countries the bureaucracy – which does tends to be parasitic wrt taxes, can get away with more taxes in the prosperous environments we get from entrepreneurial capitalism. ie we get substantial value from Govt operations, but nothing like what a well managed society with lower taxes would see. However I can’t offer examples – the USA is probably the best example of a big experiment where capitalism was the big driver and a big part of that story is being written as we chat here.

  104. This is a fantastic *simple* comparison of the two tax plans that shows clearly how McCain’s is weighted to wealthy, Obama’s to the poor.


    In fact “eat the rich” folks will like that the big economics guns will on average pay a *million more* per year in taxes under Obama.

    Notable is that Obama is collecting a lot more taxes in total and advocating more total spending. My personal preference for what it’s worth would be this because I think it’s best for the USA long term (short term there would be some hell to pay as a lot of Govt folks would be on the street in my plan):

    Cut Federal spending dramatically – a 15% minimum reduction across the board starting 2010, 20% effective 2011, then 5% reduction each year until we’ve shrunk the monster.

    Freeze taxes for middle class (NO tax cuts until budgets are balanced)

    “Raise” taxes on poor such that nobody has less than zero Federal tax liability.

    Raise taxes on rich to year 2000 levels.


  105. 😀 Attention 😀

    I just found several past comments, including some of mine – in the spam folder at WordPress. [HEY! was that an ACORN spy working on my computer or is this a comment suppression by the RNC?] I’m guessing it might be some combination of links and “very frequent commenting” but not sure. I’ve approved these which may mess up the numbering. Numbering is not a good way to reference comments because it can change, so try to quote people instead.

  106. The one thing about that chart that I don’t like – it shows an average savings or additional cost per bracket.

    In the Obama plan, a taxpayer with “family income” of 250,000 or less will pay less tax. That chart masks that.

    I’ve met people who look at that chart and say, “I’m going to pay $701,855 more under Obama.” Well, not likely. If they make exactly 2.87 million, then they’re going to pay approximately an additional $76,000. That’s one heck of a lot less than the $701,855 the chart shows.

    So far, I’m 100% on converting rich people to Obama once they understand this. McCain is trying to make it sound like they’re about to get raped. Most people making 2.87 million in taxable income do not consider an additional $76,000 being “raped”. They are used to big numbers.

  107. (138) Joe I tried to post that tax chart last week.

    It does show it in clear simple detail. Any one looking at the chart can tell Obama’s plan is very unfair.

    Keep in mind that Obama has run on a tax cut platform his entire political career – and NOT once has ever even brought up a bill to cut taxes on ANYONE.

    He has raised taxes literally every single time the opportunity has come up.

    If you actually think he is going to institute a tax cut you literally have to be smoking something.

    Most economists believe he will not be able to implement his tax cuts with his intended trillions of dollars of new spending.

    Seriously do you think with Pelosi, Reid, Dodd and Frank that they will NOT raise taxes on everyone.

    There is no track record from ANY of them to say that is what they will do.

    When Bush cut taxes during his first term – overall tax revenue actually went up or do you guys just want to ignore the facts.

    Obama’s plan for tax increases are going to cause significant harm to our economy.

    Joe when you compare to other countries there is no reasonable or fair comparison and there is a reason for that – the farther a country goes progressive so does their quality of life. You are also assuming that a progressive tax system is the best – it clearly isn’t. Progressive tax systems are designed for one purpose: government control and power.

    I don’t believe McCain believes in super-sized goverment but Obama certainly does.

    Additionally now that more information is coming out of the paperwork in regard to the Woods Foundation it is very disturbing what monies Obama directly spent where and with whom. Barack Obama is a racist plain and simple. If McCain had done similar the MSM would be screaming foul.

    You need to look at the facts, voting record, activities within the Woods Foundation (all ties back to SDS, Weatherman, ACORN, Wright, etc) – all extremists and racists. His relationship with Ayers was far reaching and something that you should be concerned about. We also learned today that Obama support and spent money with the leader of the Communist USA party.

    If you still Obama is best for this country then you simply has decided to ignore the facts. Obama is a socialist in liberal clothing.

    He will lose this election.

  108. “If you actually think he is going to institute a tax cut you literally have to be smoking something. …”

    You are correct. Somebody is smoking something. It’s you.

  109. Glenn do you see Obama’s plan as unfair to poor people or only to the 5% paying more under this plan or to everybody since we are pushing our obligations forward by spending much more than we tax in both plans. Until we look to balance the federal budget aggressively as we should I fear no plans will approach rational spending and taxing.

    JCH with friends like yours, who needs venture capital?

    … and yours is an important point – the chart is averaging things and this can be misleading. Also, people’s deductions and such vary a lot. Most rich folks have capital gains, schedule K money, etc. This is generally taxed far more favorably than regular income.

    But this gets some of the key points across in simple fashion which are that McCain cuts more taxes in total but mostly for rich, while Obama hammers the rich to give more to middle and poor.

    Glenn I’d have to give Obama campaign the “more honest” award for describing his tax plan accurately where the “Joe the Plumber” debate insults everybody’s intelligence because it pretends Obama will hurt small businesses when it is crystal clear from the facts that his plan will offer greater tax relief than McCain’s.

  110. (143) One major problem with Obama’s plan it speaks nothing of the real tax bracket and where a person ends up. When you add the medicare payments the amount of tax the high wager earners really goes up.

    You also have no way of judging what the impact of a corporate tax increase in the of increased consumer prices and that definitely hurts the poorer people for sure.

    Add to that an additional slow down in an economy where we are already in a recession and the advent of much increased taxes only leads to one thing: massive job loss.

    The housing market is still in decline and until it hits rock bottom price wise we will continue this downward trend.

    I also don’t think a few hundred dollars here or there (when you compare plans and review the tax breaks) is going to amount to anything economically. What percentage of that money will go to gambling, lottery tickets, ciggs, illegal drugs, etc. This is only going to increase the entitlement mentality.

    You cannot legislate prosperity…it just doesn’t work.

    People need a sense of worth, they need to feel accomplished, handing someone a check sounds good but all it does it create artificial barriers on someone succeeding – i.e. oh wait I can’t take that job because it will bump me out of my entitlement. It is unfortunate but that is just human nature.

    Personally I do not believe Obama is trying to help people as much as he is trying to create a power structure where government has more control.

    I don’t think he will win but if he does you will see rejection of his presidency at unprecedented levels.

    Did you see what the Hartford Courant said today?

    The new “unconscious racism” as in if you vote for McCain you are just too stupid to realize you are a racist.

    This has gone to level of absurdity and it is horribly insulting. I have spent my entire life fighting racism and sexism at all levels and to think because I don’t buy the Obama fraud that somehow I am a racist. Makes me feel all the hard work I have done in this area was a mistake.

    Look at the West Hollywood idiot who has Halloween decoration of Palin being hung and McCain burned alive. I can only imagine if someone was so crass to do the same with Obama.

  111. Did you see the latest on Troopergate where a Democratic lawmakers was ripping into the firing of the trooper. Alaska State Senator Hollis French actually said and I quote:

    “Stop and think about, what good does it do to fire a trooper if you really think he’s dangerous?”

  112. Joe what about the healthcare penalty coming for small businesses.

    “We made a decision even before the plan was rolled out not to decide,” David M. Cutler, a Harvard economist who speaks for the campaign on health care, told the Times. “It’s not that there’s a decision out there that we’re not telling. It’s literally that we’ve decided not to decide.”

    Here is another tax that is going to be directly tied to headcount.

  113. When they came up with that average, they factored all the “stuff” that happens to taxpayers into the model, so it’s all there.

    We have lived through a 30-year assault on middle and lower-class incomes. The rich have lobbied for and gotten all sorts of unreasonable handouts. When compared with prior generations of rich Americans, modern rich people have gotten away with highway robbery. And guess what, many of them know it. Warren Buffett and Bill Gates are not exceptions.

    There have always been brackets. Reagan had brackets. That makes him a Communist? Lol. It’s a pathetically weak attack on Obama.

    The rich getting richer is wealth redistribution, and it’s been real. It really happened. Well, until recent events poofed several trillion of it.

  114. (147) JCH this where we divert from our themes. It is my belief that a lot of people created the economic mess with the majority of blame squarely on the Democrats and the liberal policies of really bad business.

    You ONLY think the Republicans are to blame and none of the Democrats did anything wrong.

    So I can understand why you think they have the answers and you think their way is the way to prosperity.

    Knowing what I know about the facts of our economic mess and the track record of the upcoming blank check Whitehouse and Congress…there is no way Obama can even implement 10% of what he wants to and between Obama/Pelosi/Reid/Dodd/Frank they have already amassed over $4 trillion in new spending ideas and yet you think we can actually have a tax cut with that kind of spendthrift mentality.

    Are you listening to Barney Frank, etc?

    There is no way you can spend what Obama wants to spend without massive tax increases. So if Obama can fulfill his campaign promises (which btw – he NEVER has done) why are you voting for him? The Obama/Pelosi tag team is enough to suggest that it is a bad idea to put them together in charge of your checkbook.

  115. Today we see the rightful conviction of Stevens for taking a bribe.

    But where is the investigation of the real estate bribe Obama received from the convicted felon Tony Resko?

    The amount in Obama’s situation makes Stevens bribe look like chump change.

    Wake up America – hate to report but Obama is as corrupt as any other politician to come out of the Chicago corruption machine.

  116. What percentage of that money will go to gambling, lottery tickets, ciggs, illegal drugs…. 😆 😯

    OK Glenn, will you vote for Obama if I promise to only spend $550 of my tax break on lottery tickets?

  117. RE: Medical plans. I’m still digesting all that information. As a small biz guy both McCain and Obama offer me better than current (My strategy is to have great catastrophic coverage with a very high deductible to keep premiums down). I do think health care is a great example where our system offers very little improvement over, say, Canada but at a much higher cost. We basically have a crappy form of partly socialized medicine *right now* because all emergencies must be covered. I’d like to see a lot less emphasis on high tech super expensive approaches and a lot more on high ROI simple solutions like more ambulances for urban poverty pockets.

  118. Since the Chicago school system is one of the worst in this country I think it would be an interesting statistic to see how many people that have gone through the Ayers/SDS reeducation indoctrination and figure out how many have been arrested, convicted and incarcerated for crimes as compared to another major city that doesn’t use an Ayer’s radical approach.

    I think the numbers would speak for themselves.

  119. WOW look at the Obama hit squad going after bloggers…

    From: Rosenberg, Thomas
    Date: Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:32 PM
    Subject: At least in today’s blog you spelled my last
    name right
    To: tiffany

    In other words, I am going to read what you write and watch what you say. Hopefully you will be fair and impartial as you told me you would be.

    Thomas L. Rosenberg
    Roetzel & Andress, LPA

    Columbus, OH 43215


  120. (155) That was the blogger who reported the first actual validated case of VOTER FRAUD in Ohio and Obama’s attorney went after her with intimidation.

  121. Look at the West Hollywood idiot who has Halloween decoration of Palin being hung and McCain burned alive. I can only imagine if someone was so crass to do the same with Obama.

    I agree with this somewhat. The media spin on McCain-Palin seems far more negative than the media spin on Obama does. Yes, Foxnews does some Obama bashing, as do some of the AM radio types, but compared to the harsh treatment of McCain, and especially Palin, that seems fairly negligible. MS-NBC has been pro-Obama for the last year, and the rest of the big networks are as well. Katie Korkit/CBS could be working for the DNC, for all we know.

    Part of the liberal media “spin” consists in portraying BO/Dems as the underdogs, when the Dems have more money (Obama has like triple the budget of McCain), more “exposure”, more media outlets pulling for them. The barons of finance and IT (like Jobs & Co) also mostly support BO. The big political blogs are nearly all pro-BO.

    The liberal media also routinely depicts the GOP as the villain for everything that has happened over the last 8 years, when it was a Dem senate that agreed to Bush’s Iraqi war, Bill Clinton who signed off on de-reg, Dems who agreed to PatAct and FISA, and now Dems agreeing to the Bush/Paulson/Pelosi bailout. The villainy (if one wants to use normative terms) is solidly bipartisan, as even Ron Paul noted quite a few times. With the assistance of the media (TV, blogs, journalism, etc.) the Democrats have succeeded in creating this myth of political innocence that has nothing to do with the facts.

  122. (157) Horatiox please don’t speak in plain English I was so much looking forward to your phraseology. But I certainly agree with your statement…political innocence.

    I heard a great phrase today…Obama is the jedi mind candidate…

    I didn’t really know those guys…

    I really didn’t say those things…


    Obi Wan Obama!

    Joe btw how come you guys are silent about the 2001 radio interview I posted first thing this AM? It proves he is a socialist?

  123. Nothing to see here…Sarkozy didn’t say any of this…

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy is very critical of U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama’s positions on Iran, according to reports that have reached Israel’s government.

    Sarkozy has made his criticisms only in closed forums in France. But according to a senior Israeli government source, the reports reaching Israel indicate that Sarkozy views the Democratic candidate’s stance on Iran as “utterly immature” and comprised of “formulations empty of all content.”

    Obama visited Paris in July, and the Iranian issue was at the heart of his meeting with Sarkozy. At a joint press conference afterward, Obama urged Iran to accept the West’s proposal on its nuclear program, saying that Iran was creating a serious situation that endangered both Israel and the West.

    According to the reports reaching Israel, Sarkozy told Obama at that meeting that if the new American president elected in November changed his country’s policy toward Iran, that would be “very problematic.”

    Until now, the five permanent members of the UN Security Council plus Germany have tried to maintain a united front on Iran. But according to the senior Israeli source, Sarkozy fears that Obama might “arrogantly” ignore the other members of this front and open a direct dialogue with Iran without preconditions

  124. Just watched the film “Recount”. Although it’s a partisan perspective it’s a very dramatic exploration of the 2000 vote.

    I also just learned something I was wrong about (NOT from the film which never discusses the later very detailed analyses of the vote) – Gore would have won with a total state recount including undervotes and overvotes. Nobody asked for that (not Gore or Supreme Court), but it was done in December and Gore won by the slimmest of margins. The 2000 election really was tragic and I wish we’d move away from electoral college or it’s bound to happen again.

  125. For the record I agree that the “slant” of a lot of TV news stories outside of FOX now favor Obama. That’s probably coming mostly from a psychological desire to jump on the winning bandwagon. I’ve been watching a lot of coverage – mostly FOX and second CNN, and I still say there is no contest in bias where wrt news stories FOX clearly has a partisan agenda, CNN clearly does not. Like FOX, CNN does have some odd partisans on shows like Lou Dobbs, Bill Bennett, DL Hugeley, but the network’s news integrity is fairly high in my view. I think FOX and perhaps MSNBC have become too partisan to “trust”,though I don’t watch MSNBC regular news anchors much.

  126. Glenn I listed to the radio piece which had no surprises. It is hard to discuss the “share the wealth” talking point because it’s a complete and utter distortion of reality. If you give money to your friend, church, kid, or pay your taxes you believe in income redistribution. The only *intelligent debate* is “how do we redistribute our income”? Some might say “hey, very minimally – I’ll only give to my church” but I have *never met anybody* out of thousands of people who believe in no redistribution whatsoever. That belief system would leave your children to starve. The radio bit offers very little insight into Obama. Like every other American he wants income to be redistributed. Sure, he wants more of that than I’d favo and certainly than you’d be for, but as with all the Obama issues it’s a matter of degree and he certainly has no interest in redistribution on a scale reasonably called socialism.

  127. (161) Joe the latest polls of media bias has Fox dead last with the minimal amount of bias.

    (162) He said it was a tragedy that we didn’t bring about redistributive change. He used the phrases redistribute the wealth and economic justice – both of those go right back to the 60’s SDS, socialists agenda here in America. The word wealth in that statement is very clear and economic justice is very clear. You are now using the Daily KOS reeducation spin on his interview. Add that to spread the wealth around it is clear what he intends to do.

    Take money from the wealthy and give a check to 45% of the people that don’t write a tax check now – that is welfare and the whole concept is socialist. Only 9% of America support this idea.

    Joe wait until Obama wants to cave in and pay reparations to Africa:

    The first West African conference of the African Socialist International has ended in Freetown, with delegates calling for reparations to be paid to Africans for 400 years of slavery.

    A presentation by Ismail Rashid, a Sierra Leonean professor of African History at New York’s Vassar College, captured the mood when he insisted that it is long overdue for the West to pay for the “heinous crimes committed against Africans for our enslavement and dehumanization.”

    “Asking for reparations is no favour demanded from the west,” the radical pan-Africanist exploded. “It is our right because through slavery, the West stole our labour, dignity and resources. It is repayment for our labour, our looted human resources.”

    Obama will have a tough time getting me to pay a single penny in reparations for the what the Democratic party supported.

  128. Joe is there anyone that he won’t pander to? Now we must give up hamburgers and milkshakes? Obama is an idiot.

    In a speech this afternoon in Altoona, Pennsylvania, Senator Barack Obama made a groundbreaking announcement:

    I have long been an advocate of the less fortunate among us, of those who life has handed a crooked deck, the short end of the stick, an unfair deal.

    There are no Americans for who this is more true than the populations of our feedlots and industrial farms.

    It is time to end the exploitation of farmed animals on American soil.

    It is time to give up hamburgers as we have given up slave-holding.

    It is time for us to end our dependence on milkshakes as we must end our dependence on foreign oil.

    It is time to acknowledge that the fishing industry does damage to our oceans far beyond that of emissions from our coal burning power plants.

    I invite all Americans to join me in a bright future free of cruelty and exploitation, free of the blood of innocents killed only for our pleasure.

    While details of his animal liberation agenda were vague, he obviously doesn’t lack conviction. When questioned directly by a reporter after the speech, Obama stated “Yes, I am now a vegan. From a personal perspective, it doesn’t hurt that people of African descent are invariably lactose intolerant.”

    Longtime vegan and perennial presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich was supportive, saying “It’s wonderful to see a young politician like Barack taking a stand on such an important, under-discussed issue.”

    Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean was less enthusiastic: “While we support Mr. Obama’s right to stand up for his principles, this decision takes him so far away from mainstream American belief that it’s difficult to regard his candidacy as viable. The corn and soy lobby think they’ve pulled off a coup here, but he’s just lost his Super Delegates.” (It’s worth noting that the Vermont dairy lobby is especially strong.)

  129. Now Obama is telling people to take the day off on Election Day.

    Don’t show up for class…don’t show up for work…

    Of course he would say that…we don’t need our free markets anymore. We just need the big government to take care of everything. It won’t matter that I lose my job I can get one from the government…

  130. Atlas Shrugged? Lol. You finally listed one of the culprits behind the credit crisis. The fountainhead of AlAyn GreenRandSpam’s flaw.

  131. An American businessman’s letter to Obama

    Mr. Obama,

    Given the uproar about the simple question asked you by Joe the plumber, and the persecution that has been heaped on him because he dared to question you, I find myself motivated to say a few things to you myself. While Joe aspires to start a business someday, I already have started not one, but 4 businesses. But first, let me introduce myself. You can call me “Cory the well driller”. I am a 54 year old high school graduate. I didn’t go to college like you, I was too ready to go “conquer the world” when I finished high school. 25 years ago at age 29, I started my own water well drilling business at a time when the economy here in East Texas was in a tailspin from the crash of the early 80’s oil boom. I didn’t get any help from the government, nor did I look for any. I borrowed what I could from my sister, my uncle, and even the pawn shop and managed to scrape together a homemade drill rig and a few tools to do my first job.

    My businesses did not start as a result of privilege. They are the result of my personal drive, personal ambition, self discipline, self reliance, and a determination to treat my customers fairly. From the very start my business provided one other (than myself) East Texan a full time job. I couldn’t afford a backhoe the first few years (something every well drilling business had), so I and my helper had to dig the mud pits that are necessary for each and every job with hand shovels. I had to use my 10 year old, 1/2 ton pickup truck for my water tank truck (normally a job for at least a 2 ton truck).

    A year and a half after I started the business, I scraped together a 20% down payment to get a modest bank loan and bought a (28 year) old, worn out, slightly bigger drilling rig to allow me to drill the deeper water wells in my area.

    I spent the next few years drilling wells with the rig while simultaneously rebuilding it between jobs. Through these years I never knew from one month to the next if I would have any work or be able to pay the bills. I got behind on my income taxes one year, and spent the next two years paying that back (with penalty and interest) while keeping up with ongoing taxes. I got behind on my water well supply bill 2 different years (way behind the second time… $80,000.00), and spent over a year paying it back (each time) while continuing to pay for ongoing supplies C.O.D.. Of course, the personal stress endured through these experiences and years is hard to measure. I do have a stent in my heart now to memorialize it all.

    I spent the next 10 years developing the reputation for being the most competent and most honest water well driller in East Texas. 2 years along the way, I hired another full time employee for the drilling business so that we could provide full time water well pump service as well as the well drilling. Also, 3 years along the path, I bought a water well screen service machine from a friend, starting business # 2. 5 years later I made a business loan for $100,000.00 to build a new, higher production, computer controlled screen service machine.

    I had designed the machine myself, and it didn’t work out for 3 years so I had to make the loan payments without the benefit of any added income from the new machine. No government program was there to help me with the payments, or to help me sleep at night as I lay awake wondering how I would solve my machine problems or pay my bills. Finally, after 3 years, I got the screen machine working properly, and that provided another full time job for an East Texan in the screen service business.

    2 years after that, I made another business loan, this time for $250,000.00, to buy another used drilling rig and all the support equipment needed to run another, larger, drill rig. This provided another 2 full time jobs for East Texans. Again, I spent a couple of years not knowing if I had made a smart move, or a move that would bankrupt me. For the third time in 13 years, I had placed everything I owned on the line, risking everything, in order to build a business.

    A couple of years into this, I came up with a bright idea for a new kind of mud pump, a fundamentally necessary pump used on water well drill rigs. I spent my entire life savings to date (just $30,000.00), building a prototype of the pump and took it to the national water well convention to show it off.

    Customers immediately started coming out of the woodworks to buy the pumps, but there was a problem. I had depleted my assets making the prototype, and nobody would make me a business loan to start production of the new pumps. With several deposits for pump orders in hand, and nowhere to go, I finally started applying for as many credit card as I could find and took cash withdrawals on these cards to the tune of over $150,000.00 (including modest loans from my dear sister and brother), to get this 3rd business going.

    Yes, once again, I had everything hanging over the line in an effort to start another business. I had never manufactured anything, and I had to design and bring into production a complex hydraulic machine from an untested prototype to a reliable production model (in six months). How many nights I lay awake wondering if I had just made the paramount mistake of my life I cannot tell you, but there were plenty. I managed to get the pumps into production, which immediately created another 2 full time jobs in East Texas. Some of the models in the first year suffered from quality issues due to the poor workmanship of one of my key suppliers, so I and an employee (another East Texan employed) had to drive across the country to repair customers’ pumps, practically from coast to coast.

    I stood behind the product, and made payments to all the credit cards that had financed me (and my brother and sister). I spent the next 5 years improving and refining the product, building a reputation for the pump and the company, working to get the pump into drill rig manufacturers’ product lines, and paying back credit cards. During all this time I continued to manage a growing water well business that was now operating 3 drill rig crews, and 2 well service crews. Also, the screen service business continued to grow.

    No government programs were there to help me, Mr. Obama, but that’s ok, I didn’t expect any, nor did I want any. I was too busy fighting to make success happen to sit around waiting for the government to help me.

    Now, we have been manufacturing the mud pumps for 7 years, my combined businesses employ 32 full time employees, and distribute $5,000,000.00 annually through the local economy. Now, just 4 months ago I borrowed $1,254,000.00, purchasing computer controlled machining equipment to start my 4th business, a production machine shop. The machine shop will serve the mud pump company so that we can better manufacture our pumps that are being shipped worldwide. Of course, the machine shop will also do work for outside companies as well.

    This has already produced 2 more full time jobs, and 2 more should develop out of it in the next few months. This should work out, but if it doesn’t it will be because you, and the other professional politicians like yourself, will have destroyed our country’s’ (and the world) economy with your meddling with mortgage loan programs through your liberal manipulation and intimidation of loaning institutions to make sure that unqualified borrowers could get mortgages. You see, at the very time when I couldn’t get a business loan to get my mud pumps into production, you were working with Acorn and the Community Reinvestment Act programs to make sure that unqualified borrowers could buy homes with no down payment, and even no credit or worse yet, bad credit. Even the infamous, liberal, Ninja loans (No Income, No Job or Assets).

    While these unqualified borrowers were enjoying unrealistically low interest rates, I was paying 22% to 24% interest on the credit cards that I had used to provide me the funds for the mud pump business that has created jobs for more East Texans. It’s funny, because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, and now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you and your ilk have perpetrated on our country.

    You see, Mr. Obama, I’m the guy you intend to raise taxes on. I’m the guy who has spent 25 years toiling and sweating, fretting and fighting, stressing and risking, to build a business and get ahead. I’m the guy who has been on the very edge of bankruptcy more than a dozen times over the last 25 years, and all the while creating more and more jobs for East Texans who didn’t want to take a risk, and would not demand from themselves what I have demanded from myself. I’m the guy you characterize as “the Americans who can afford it the most” that you believe should be taxed more to provide income redistribution “to spread the wealth” to those who have never toiled, sweated, fretted, fought, stressed, or risked anything. You want to characterize me as someone who has enjoyed a life of privilege and who needs to pay a higher percentage of my income than those who have bought into your entitlement culture. I resent you, Mr. Obama, as I resent all who want to use class warfare as a tool to advance their political career. What’s worse, each year more Americans buy into your liberal entitlement culture, and turn to the government for their hope of a better life instead of themselves.

    Liberals are succeeding through more than 40 years of collaborative effort between the predominant liberal media, and liberal indoctrination programs in the public school systems across our land.

    What is so terribly sad about this is this. America was made great by people who embraced the one-time American culture of self reliance, self motivation, self determination, self discipline, personal betterment, hard work, risk taking. A culture built around the concept that success was in reach of every able bodied American who would strive for it. Each year that less Americans embrace that culture, we all descend together. We descend down the socialist path that has brought country after country ultimately to bitter and unremarkable states.

    If you and your liberal comrades in the media and school systems would spend half as much effort cultivating a culture of can-do across America as you do cultivating your entitlement culture, we could see Americans at large embracing the conviction that they can elevate themselves through personal betterment, personal achievement, and self reliance. You see, when people embrace such ideals, they act on them. When people act on such ideals, they succeed. All of America could find herself elevating instead of deteriorating. But that would eliminate the need for liberal politicians, wouldn’t it, Mr. Obama? The country would not need you if the country was convinced that problem solving was best left with individuals instead of the government.

    You and all your liberal comrades have got a vested interested in creating a dependent class in our country. It is the very business of liberals to create an ever expanding dependence on government. What’s remarkable is that you, who have never produced a job in your life, are going to tax me to take more of my money and give it to people who wouldn’t need my money if they would get off their entitlement mentality asses and apply themselves at work, demand more from themselves, and quit looking to liberal politicians to raise their station in life.

    You see, I know because I’ve had them work for me before. Hundreds of them over these 25 years. People who simply will not show up to work on time. People who just will not work 5 days in a week, much less, 6 days. People always looking for a way to put less effort out. People who actually tell me that they would do more if I just would first pay them more. People who take off work to sit in government offices to apply to get free government handouts (gee, I wonder how things would have turned out for them if they had spent that time earning money and pleasing their employer?). You see, all of this comes from your entitlement mentality culture.

    Oh, I know you will say I am uncompassionate. Sorry, Mr. Obama, wrong again. You see, I’ve seen what the average percentage of your income has been given to charities over the years of 2000 to 2004 (ignoring the years you started running for office – can you pronounce “politically motivated”), you averaged less than 1% annually. And your running mate, Joe Biden, averaged less than ¼% of his annual income in charitable contributions over the last 10 years. Like so many liberals, the two of you want to give to the needy, just as long as it is someone else’s money you are giving to them. I won’t say what I have given to charities over the last 25 years, but the percentage is several times more than you and Joe Biden. combined (don’t you just hate google?). Tell me again how you feel my pain.

    In short, Mr. Obama, your political philosophies represent everything that is wrong with our country. You represent the culture of government dependence instead of self reliance; Entitlement mentality instead of personal achievement; Penalization of the successful to reward the unmotivated; Political correctness instead of open mindedness and open debate. If you are successful, you may preside over the final transformation of America from being the greatest and most self-reliant culture on earth, to just another country of whiners and wimps, who sit around looking to the government to solve their problems. Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less to offer mankind every year.

    God help us…

    Cory Miller

    just a ordinary, extraordinary American, the way a lot of Americans used to be.

    P.S. Yes, Mr. Obama, I am a real American… http://www.cmillerdrilling.com

    And now you know the rest of the story…

  132. First, the freakin’ idiot thinks you can tell how much somebody gives to charity by looking at their income-tax return.

    Many of us do not believe in deducting charitable deductions. We don’t think Jesus would approve of being paid to be charitable.

  133. (171) Some of us don’t want people to know what organizations we deem as charities that we give to. Like radical socialist and communist organizations in this country.

    Unfortunately for Obama those records had to be maintained at his charitable fund he oversaw. We can all see exactly who he thinks is deserving of monies.

  134. Voter rolls stuffed with dead and absent registrants
    Voter rolls need amending

    By Bert Case

    JACKSON, MS (WLBT) – Mississippi’s voter situation is hard to believe. Places like Madison County have over 123% more registered voters than people over the age of 18.

    Sue Sautermeister, First District Election Commissioner in Madison County, tried to purge the rolls, but ran into trouble when it was discovered it takes a vote of three of the five election commissioners and the purge cannot take place within 90 days of a federal election.

    Secretary of State Delbert Hosemann is the first to admit the situation with voter registration in this state is terrible.

    “It is terrible,” he says. “Combined with the fact that we don’t have voter ID in Mississippi, anybody can show up at any poll that happens to know the people who have left town or died — and go vote for them.”

    “Whenever we have a third party determined by payment, for example, as they did in Benton County — ‘walking-around’ money — and they determine what that vote is going to be, they’ve taken your vote, whether they may have voted like you would have or not, they’ve still thwarted the process and they’ve still have taken your vote away from you,” added Hosemann.

    Sue Sautermeister is working hard in the First District of Madison County to start a purging of the voter rolls as soon after the election as possible. She has file drawers full of names of people who haven’t voted in years and are known to be dead.

    “We have people who registered in 1965 who have never voted,” she says. “We have 486 people (registered who are) over 105.”

    Hosemann says 190,000 new voters have registered for this election and he believes the turnout will be historic.


  135. Seriously folks even though the piles of evidence and proof that shows Obama favors Marxism throughout all stages of his life – there is nothing to see here…just move along…

    Barack Obama laughs off charges of socialism. Joe Biden scoffs at references to Marxism. Both men shrug off accusations of liberalism.

    But Obama himself acknowledges that he was drawn to socialists and even Marxists as a college student. He continued to associate with Marxists later in life, even choosing to launch his political career in the living room of a self-described Marxist, William Ayers, in 1995, when Obama was 34.

    Obama’s affinity for Marxists began when he attended Occidental College in Los Angeles.

    “To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully,” the Democratic presidential candidate wrote in his memoir, “Dreams From My Father.” “The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists.”


  136. Glenn the “Corey the Well Driller” does not look real to me. Where did you find that story?

    😯 Don’t trust the internet! 😯

    Why are so many business people in favor of Obama? Google’s CEO Schmidt and many high income folks in Silicon Valley are very big on Obama – I think because they are looking at a long term, broad view of things.

  137. “Face JCH…Obama is an unrepentant socialist!”

    The vast majority of Americans believe in versions of socialism.

    Perhaps you need to move to a country where that is not true. Wait, there is no such country. Nothing left to do but whine whine whine about socialism.

  138. (177) Joe the guys at Google are total socialists for sure too bad they don’t practice what they preach with their own communities and organization.

    Why do you think Google tracks everything? They definitely favor a huge government plus Schmidt will most likely get a post within Obama’s admin.

    As far as I know Corey is the real deal…

  139. Run on eliminating Social Security. Be honest with the American voter. Tell them that Social Security is pure socialism, and that you will end it upon your your first moment in power.

    Americans would rise up like a big hammer and smash you like a bug.

  140. (182) JCH so you think running a dishonest campaign is the proper way to get elected. The end justifies the means and you don’t think a serious uprising would occur.

  141. So you would deny a homeless American their right to vote because they have no address?

    “The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. …” – Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

  142. Nothing to see here…Obama is not behind any fraud…

    Rich Chrismer, the St. Charles County elections director, says his office last week turned over to the FBI 15 voter registration cards with nonexistent addresses that had been submitted by the Barack Obama presidential campaign in Missouri. Chrismer said the bad addresses were noted by one of his employees who was checking on voter registrations. He said the FBI had asked him to contact the bureau if anyone tried to vote using the suspicious registration. He said the cards were turned in, mostly on Oct. 8 and Oct. 9, by Obama for America.

  143. (185) Aye yi yi…do you think a homeless person is informed enough to vote? I have no problem with their vote I have a problem with the voter extortion perpetuated by the Obama campaign.

    Instead of helping these people they just want to take their vote. Obama is manipulating the poor and helpless for his own political ambition.

  144. The homeless person can vote for anybody and anything he wants, so you are, once again, dead wrong.

    And once again, in all but three states, all voter registration cards have to be returned to the courthouse. It is a violation of law to not return them. That is true no matter what the potential voter writes on the card.

    How can it be fraud if the law requires you to return every single card back to the courthouse?

    The courthouse has procedures in place to verify the cards. That is their job.

    The FRAUD is how this is being presented to the American voters – as though something is going on that is so dangerous that it threatens our democracy – what a pile of HS.

  145. “A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. …” – Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

    Hear hear. A progressive income tax (or property tax, or capital gains tax), however, does not imply an LBJ/Clinton style welfare state. Obama’s in the LBJ tradition; for examples visit a few LA neighborhoods (even middle class ones) where the mamacitas, the parolees, the unemployed gangstas live in Section 8 houses (paid for by LA county and CA), collect a few thou. in benes, drive Escalades, etc.

  146. JoeDuck, as far the the Cory Miller letter.. you’ve landed in my stompin’ grounds. I can definately, unquestionably confirm that Mr. Miller DID write the letter, he does own that drilling company, and yes, he lives in my neck of the woods. Just thought I could finally throw my 2 cents in about something I actually know about. I have his number if you’d like to call him. 🙂

  147. Hey Tara that is a wild coincidence. No need for me to call him – I’ll take your and Glenn’s word for it!

    “Hello Cory, this is Joe Duck from Oregon calling on behalf if Glenn 😯 to ask for your vote for Obama”

  148. the guys at Google are total socialists for sure
    No, they are not. (again, I’m using that term in it’s normal definition – everybody is a socialist if you consider helping your church, friends, country as “socialistic” as some of the McCain bits seem to suggest about Obama when they declare “spreading the wealth” as a socialist enterprise).

    All the Google folks I’ve met are very big on entrepreneurial capitalism which does not fit in well with Socialism at all.

    Glenn you surely don’t believe that

  149. do you think a homeless person is informed enough to vote?

    Whoa…Nobody I’ve met is informed enough to truly vote intelligently, but everybody who is sane should be considered “informed enough”. Otherwise you wind up with a non-Democratic stuff like voter suppression, literacy tests and poll taxes. In a democracy it’s the obligation of the candidates to convince people why they deserve the office, not the obligation of *anybody* to convince *anybody* they have the right to vote. Sure that leads to some very uninformed votes, but welcome to Democracy.

  150. Glenn I’m curious. In the 2000 and 2004 elections do you think voter suppression or voter fraud were bigger problems? Do you think that suppression efforts in Florida 2000 changed the outcome?

  151. do you think a homeless person is informed enough to vote?

    Mr. Glenn may be a bit blunt for Cafe Birkenstocks lib-rawls, but he has a point. A popular vote does not magically produce truth. Madonna may sell ten thousand more CDs a year than say a classical pianist who plays Bach and Chopin does: is Madonna therefore like superior to Chopin? Nyet. Silly, but in ways the American voting process similar to that sort of mob consumerism.

    There have been various attempts at improving voting, instead of just allowing any human over 18 to mark his or her X: like, for instance, literacy tests, or some basic math skills etc. Being able to read the voter’s guide, maybe. A pie graph test at CA booths–in Ingles, like–and large numbers of voters would be like eliminated.

    A consensus of morons does not mean much–and standardized tests do suggest a high level of moronness in USA. A straw poll on a pirate ship doesn’t really count for much either: Arrrrgh ye mateys ah’m a pullin’ for the moooor.

    HL Mencken wrote some interesting essays on this topic, and had a great fear of populism gone wrong. For that matter, so did the Founding Fathers (one reason for electoral college was to curtail the effects of a pure popular vote).

  152. Yes, clearly if you are homeless you not deserve to keep the rights of an American citizen. Live in your car? Sorry – you are no longer American. Lose your job, and your house, even temporarily so that you don’t have an address? Yep, you are no longer a citizen.

    Dumb, dumb, dumb.

  153. And who should judge whether an American citizen is “fit to vote”? Oh yeah, forgot – the Right reserves the right to condemn anyone who does not fit their model of “good, Pro-America” Americans.

    Karl Marx himself would be proud to hear your ignorance.

  154. And lets see….hmm….says here that African Americans and Latinos score typically lower on standardized tests than Whites in affluent neighborhoods…yep, looks like they are not informed enough to vote either….

  155. Horatiox I had not seen this Capitalims quote before. Using the prevailing McCampaign logic this indicates that Adam Smith was … a SOCIALIST!

    … the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. …” – Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

  156. And who should judge whether an American citizen is “fit to vote”?

    Yes, this is the key problem with tests and other measures of worthiness. They’ll be used in a partisan way as suppression is right now.

    Vote encouragement may be a problem, but is not reasonably considered a problem with *democracy* where ideally you’d have 100% informed participation.

    Seems to me we have no way to administer “voting standards” and consider ourselves a Democracy. Uninformed electorates (present company excluded of course …?) go with the territory.

  157. Not to mention the 200,000-400,000 estimated American Veterans who are homeless. Sorry son, ya went to war for us, but the man says if you’re homeless, you give up your right to vote.

  158. Joe – say it ain’t so!! – the original proponent of free markets a Socialist ?!? Heaven forbid !!!

    “Socialism” gets bandied about by some like it’s a live grenade or a highly contagious deadly disease. In reality there are socialistic elements to much of our society and economy, Social Security, as another poster pointed out, being but one.

    Much hue and cry has been made about the dangers of socialized medicine, citing the shortcomings of such systems in Europe and Canada. These criticisms clearly fail to address or even discuss the fact that our system of healthcare is clearly & irreparably broken. We spend more than any other country as a % of GDP, but rank 37th among countries for overall quality of care. Virtually all countries with forms of socialized medicine experience lower infant mortality rates than does the U.S. There has to be a better way.

  159. Paul, with talk like that we may have to strip you of your right to vote, and there will be an investigation. Using the “definition” of “Socialism” is strictly anti-American.

    Say, you’re not homeless are you???

  160. Adam Smith was … a SOCIALIST!

    Not really. He wants some “levelling” but I strongly doubt Smith, an advocate of laissez-faire, would approve of LBJ-style social engineering, which Obama (like Clinton) hopes to reinvigorate. Given the comments (and others like it) Smith probably would have supported anti-trust sorts of legislation (say on Google, MSN, Yahoo, JP Morgans, Citigroup, etc.), which neither party has pushed for since like Roosevelt.

    Yes, provide po’ working folks with something to get by on; but doling out 3 bedroom homes via Section 8, or AFDC payments of 3 grand+ month, Affirmative Action, welfare for years– nyet.

    Re voting: require at least a HS diploma. If someone can’t read the voter guide or do some basic math, someone’s unfit to vote.

  161. whoa whoa whoa…nobody ever said people shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Everyone should vote. Hey if you happen to be an Obama supporter they say vote early and vote often!!!

    My point is this…

    ACORN goes out and gets the homeless to vote, that all sounds great except for one very important point – when they interview the ACORN volunteers they are not only getting the homeless person to the polling station but they are instructing the homeless person to vote for Obama.

    Does anyone actually think that is ok?

    I think everyone should be given the ability to vote but to think a homeless person can use a park bench as an address…that is absurd…CA found out about this the hard way from the squatters rights laws that are still lingering on the books.

    The person should just say they are homeless.

    My entire point on this is that the argument has gone to the level of absurdity where we will bend over backwards to get a homeless person to vote and at the same time they do everything they can to block our soldiers from voting but of course that would fit right in inline with SDS and the ACORN way. Remember our troops are actually the enemy.

    I think it is immoral for anyone to take advantage of any person whether they be homeless, mentally handicapped or otherwise and basically take their important right of voting and manipulate them into voting for one candidate or the other.

    Joe as for 2000 and 2004 unfortunately I don’t think we will ever know the truth but I am strongly against any form of corruption in our government at any level for any topic.

    I think it is pretty clear I don’t care about the two party system nor do I care where the guilty reside. If they are corrupt they need to go – PERIOD. It is our money and we deserve an honest government with a respectable level of integrity otherwise it really is all going to eventually collapse that has been PROVEN over and over again for thousands of years.

    Ok…let’s not slice the definition of socialism. We all know what socialism at a very understandable yet very hight level it is…the centralized control of key industries within a country and the disproportionate redistribution of wealth.

    The bail-out has started that process with our banking industry, Democrats want to do it with the insurance industry, health-care and with our property. Let me make it very clear – the government owning a portion of our property is a MAJOR PROBLEM.

    Yes we have a progressive tax system and most Americans accept it however most don’t agree with it and certainly over 84% don’t agree with it once they are explained what is really happening with our money. Recent polls show progressive income tax in this country has a solid support level of between 9%-13%. Sorry that isn’t enough support. Our incredibly unfair tax system is forced upon all of us and we really don’t get proper representation for this taxation because special interest and lobbyists.

    You all should seriously look at the FairTax proposition it is amazing and would have an enormous impact on our economy and would help people significantly at or below the poverty level – and it isn’t socialism or redistribution of wealth.

    The main reason our health-care system is broken is because of the massive need for tort-reform. Just ask any doctor what malpractice insurance costs. Once again lawyers/lobbyists are destroying our country. I think the biggest issue with our government is they want to treat symptoms instead of curing the problem – because it will impact all of their sacred cows and easter bunnies they have created that control their votes.

    Bigger government isn’t the answer – it never has been the answer. Just look at the IRS, Treasury and how they function with the most basic of functions, AP, AR they are horribly inefficient at it. Literally any business that how to operate at their efficiency would be bankrupt in a matter of year. That is the reality here – government will NEVER be efficient because there is no market mechanism to force them to be.

  162. Usually, as far as I know. Better question: is it necessary that grunts should be allowed to vote? Even Marx might agree with Nietzsche on that. No, hell no. Good king: what’s needed. Enlightened despot, man.

  163. For the record the biggest reason I wouldn’t vote for Obama is because he is an attorney.

    You really need to think about why I make that statement. I have nothing against the profession of an attorney – god knows I have heaps and heaps of friends that are attorneys.

    This is about a top executive position where we need a leader that is going to make the right choice when no one is watching. This is about a person that is going to be able to make a difficult and unpopular position because it is right and right for this country.

    An attorney is incapable of doing this. It is all about parsing and manipulation of perception to create a tide of support and has nothing to do with the truth.

    The second biggest point is that Obama has said himself that he feels the Constitution is significantly flawed. Sorry no way – that document has a level of profound wisdom that is beyond reproach.

    Third Obama foreign policy experience is a joke and having Biden has not helped in this area at all. Listen to what other world leaders are saying in closed door sessions as it leaks out – Obama is very naive and I think he would inadvertently sell Israel out. Whether it is unfortunate or not Israel is critical to us in the Middle East. Obama has too many radical friends that support Israel going down.

    We all have short memories when it was during the Carter administration that we had the hostage crisis and one of main leaders of the hostage taking could very well be Ahmadinejad. Mark my words when Iran gets nuclear weapons we are all in deep chit. PERIOD.

    Fourth his economic policies are going to be a disaster. We already know this from history. You probably notice that I keep looking at track records and history to get a grasp on what is going to happen next – it is our best guide to understand the future. Even the ex-CEO of Citibank came out today and stated we are going to see 9% unemployment – that is way beyond rescission that will be a depression. UCLA has produced a position that states the big government policies extended the Great Depression by at least 7 years.

    Fifth the trifecta of Obama/Pelosi/Reid is a very bad thing. That is a fixed horse race for sure. To think that Pelosi has the audacity to tell the American public that a complete Democratic controlled government would be the most bi-partisan, etc…TOTAL BS. Just go look back in Jan 2007 what she promised. Once again she didn’t deliver. When the country was at a crisis point with the economic meltdown and we needed bipartisan effort – what did Pelosi deliver? One of the most inappropriate and partisan speeches on the history of the floor.

    Sixth rhetoric versus reality. The track records of Obama and Pelosi have a complete disconnect from what they promise to what they deliver. Literally 100% it is no wonder that Pelosi has achieved the lowest approval rating in the history of congress.

    Seventh the guilty will get away. Obama will not pursue a bipartisan investigation to find all those at fault for this economic mess.

    Eighth the race card. The fact that the race card has been played so often and is so insulting it really makes me want to vote against Obama. Everytime I go back and listen to the hate speech from his friends of 20 years and the despicable acts of his terrorist friends – how dare he even mention race when it is clear his personal views are racist themselves!

    Nine the MSM. If Obama is elected the MSM will be vindicated of their disservice to the American public. It is embarrassing that in a country that has so many freedom and rights that we would have so much over the top bias in the news. We let this pass and the MSM will believe they can promote their personal agendas at a rampant level.

  164. (212) Quick question, again a legit one: In my perception, the reason things have not gotten done under Pelosi has more to do with the imbalance of veto power than anything else. I am assuming that is not your perception, but I would like to hear your opinion – On Pelosi specifically, I don’t have enough specific knowledge to make an airtight argument either way – I’m just giving you my own “knee jerk” reaction. What is your perception?

  165. Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read, “Vote Obama, I need the money.” I laughed.

    Once in the restaurant my server had on an “Obama 08” tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference—just imagine the coincidence.

    When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need—the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.

    I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I’ve decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.

    At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient needed money more.

    I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

    Just my two cents…

  166. I guess I don’t understand the basic reasoning – we’ll let you kill for us, but you get no say in the government you kill for?

    Does a grunt get to vote on battlefield tactics?? Hell no. When Sarge says, take Hamburger Hill, putos! the grunts do it–at point of a gun if necessary. Once grunt’s honorably discharged, settled down with gruntette and kids, and passes a basic voter education test, maybe. Democracy has nothing to do with how the military functions, except maybe a consensus of well-educated officers, and their technical support men.

    Those who read a few pages of Madison and Jefferson’s thoughts on democracy soon realize the founders feared the power of a mob unleashed (as it was during French Rev.) as much as they feared the power of monarchy, or something like that. TJ pushed for an educated citizenry in hopes of avoiding mob democracy: his fears have been realized (tho’ probably were like right after civil war). Let’s have real reform: overturn 19th and 15th Amendments! (j-k, but there were quite a few opponents of both)

  167. thanks – that clears it up perfectly. My question was not whether the grunt gets to vote on taking Hamburger Hill – it was whether he has a right to vote on the direction of his country.

    But it does clear up how the Right thinks. They know best. David Duke would most assuredly approve.

  168. (213) Fair question. My response about Pelosi. It is pretty straight forward. We have a person who does not represent nor understand the needs and wants of mainstreet America.

    At some point Bush has decided to become a Democrat his spending is wild beyond belief but we must temper that with the fact the Pelosi is the one who ultimately controls the purse strings.

    She promised serious change, she promised a spend as you go theme based on what we have and no more deficit spending. Seriously look at the increase in the deficit since she took the chair. She promised a clean and ethical government that America had demanded that change – and you know what…she was right about America demanding that change in 2006. She failed miserably.

    Additionally they took their vacations while leaving important issues on the table, over the history of this country her congress has accomplished the smallest amount of work in the history of this country. If these people were employees you would kick their butts to curb.

    I think they had enough votes and support from moderate Republicans and RINO’s to get anything they wanted passed.

    I think Pelosi did everything she could with the help of other Democrats to set the stage for a Democratic win in the Whitehouse this year. That is totally unethical and unprofessional.

    Just look at our country today. It is unbelievable that we are even having to have these discussions about these topics.

    Years ago we needed to get off foreign oil – we didn’t.

    Years ago we needed to fix the housing problem – we didn’t.

    Years ago we needed to fix the gambling on Wall-Street – we didn’t.

    Years ago we needed to fix the problems in our health-care system – we didn’t.

    Years ago we needed to fix the problems in our education system – we didn’t.

    How can anyone have any confidence in our government at this point without first some accountability?

    We are about to elect a president that along with his partners in crime wants to introduce over $4 trillion in spending. Are we serious? Do we even have a clue to what we are doing?

    BTW…the key problem on why none of those have been fixed in the past is the lobbyist and tied to that is personal corruption amplified and accelerated by the lobbyists.

    Until we fix those core issues we don’t stand a chance of fixing what really needs to change in this country. You think we have problems this time…think about how bad it will be when we have bigger problems and we have an additional $4 trillion in debt! The annual interest will be over $800 billion at this point alone.

    This can only be described as pure insanity.

  169. (217) David Duke deserves to be exiled from this country along with anyone else that exposes a doctrine of hate toward any ethnic group or religion in this country.

  170. Those who would accuse people of racism or even right-wing politics without any grounds should be held as accountable as David Duke, if not more: restricting the vote does not entail racism, or totalitarianism. For that matter, the bolsheviks had no problem shutting down the popular vote when they took power.

    I simply say people should demonstrate intellectual competence to be allowed the right to vote–if just a HS diploma: that’s traditional republicanism, actually. The intellectual crimes have been committed by MetroKnow, repeatedly.

  171. (195) Joe I think a socialist, a communist whatever should be allowed to run. The point is not to play the Saul Alinsky game to justify the means by achieving the end result. That is dishonest and I would suggest that a socialist candidate that is hiding under another label because of political expediency runs the risk of massive uprising after an election.

    Americans will not tolerate that level of deception. Socialism continues to creep into the far left of the Democratic party. There is no doubt that Obama is truly a socialist or maybe even a Marxist. You don’t seek out people with those beliefs that are going to be influential to your growth and life unless you embrace it as a core value.

    Personally I don’t have a problem with someone being a socialist or Marxist. Just tell people what you really are.

    I think it is obvious that Obama’s relationship to Khalidi, Khalid, Ayers, ACORN, SDS, etc are all very intentional and where he is most comfortable.

    He should have run on that platform if he really believes it – that would have taken courage, honesty and integrity.

    If he gets elected and tries to further a socialist path on this country specifically with gun control, nationalization of industry and much higher taxes on the wealthy and we plunge into a depression we will plunge into a period of violence and strife in this country that will only lead to one place: our country for the first time in history will be invaded by a foreign power.

    The Saul Alinsky playbook always falls apart once the wool is pulled back from everyone’s eyes. If Obama is who I think he truly is…we are in for the toughest period of history this country could ever imagine.

  172. Where do you get this crap that soldiers are being blocked from voting. You cited some whack-job congressman, and when I posted the actual report there was nothing that supported his contention.

    All voters have a set of rules they have to negotiate to be able to vote. Same goes for the military. Every single soldier is given ample opportunity to get his ducks in a row so he can vote.

    You are creating false issues at a 100 mph. It’s hilarious.

  173. (220) Actually I think people should have to attend a government class that explains what happens with our taxes, the branches of the government, who holds the key positions, etc.

    They should also know in a clear way what the candidates are promising and what their track record shows.

    Why does everyone have a problem with looking at someone’s track record?

    We have bloodmobiles, mobile DMV’s, etc…we can certainly have a government sponsored program that could be at every polling station during elections that people should go through at least once and/or always have the opportunity to go and get the most up to date information.

    I think this is a very serious subject and our country will only get better in its greatness if our voters understand what they are voting for.

    Enough of the games to swindle people into voting for a candidate…the candidates should have to have clear measurable promises in their campaigns. And if they don’t achieve their promises while in office a national certification process should produce a “report card” for the people in office. It is time for some integrity and honesty with our money.

  174. RE: Adam Smith socialism. Horatiox I’m confident you are correct to think Adam Smith would object to the level of entitlements in USA and failure to recognize personal accountability. But my point is that the notion that Obama is a socialist because he advocates “redistribution” is not reasonable. Rightly or wrongly, Smith advocated a variety of checks and balances on unbridled Capitalism where Marx himself suggested how progressive the USA was compared to Europe. Yet it would not be reasonable to call Smith a socialist or consider the 1890? Marx endorsement a sign of impending socialist doom.

    Glenn is that tip deal a true story? You actually did that? Very clever but I think many waiters would get a kick out of that if you did the more accurate form which would be most to them and a dollar to the homeless. In fact that’s a good example of what has passed in the McCain talking points as “evidence” when even if true it’s not a measure of “truth”.

  175. (222) JCH – Clinton was the biggest offender of suppressing the military vote and for good reason – he was not respected by the military.

    Obama has even less support from the military.

    Here is another example of the military disqualification:

    Fairfax County Registrar Rokey Suleman is disqualifying an overwhelming majority of the military federal write-in absentee ballots received in his county on the basis that no address had been given for those witnessing the voter signatures on the ballots. According to Springfield District Supervisor Pat Herrity and four former members of the military who held a press conference on Thursday, over 98 percent of these military absentee ballots in Fairfax County are being rejected.

    “The federal write-in absentee ballot is a federally mandated ballot that allows military service members and their dependents to cast an absentee ballot when they haven’t received a [state] ballot before the election,” Herrity said. “For them it’s a safety net. It allows them to vote if the mail truck hasn’t reached his or her remote base in Iran or Afghanistan in time to cast a regular absentee ballot.”

    When asked how many ballots had been rejected, Herrity responded, “Out of the 260 military federal write-in ballots received to date, only five included an address for the witness. The other 255 have been set aside for rejection.”

    But I forget all Democrats are ordained as our untouchable leaders in your mind. Barney Frank is your hero…I get it.

  176. Are you referring to me? I responded to MK’s hypothetical. The point’s sort of conceptual, and thus a bit out of reach of most DNCocrats: voting does not necessarily produce good politics. Majorities voted in Mussolini, Hitler, Bush, and Diane Feinstein (supposedly). Yes, it seems more “just” (somehow) than a more republican or monarchistic model, but few bother to prove that. A society run by a good King (try to think of one……Charles II) could be better than injust democracy…..Even under the Pax Romana, citizens were often better off with a just emperor-despot (say Aurelius) than subjected to a fave of the democratic mob.

  177. (224) Now it is just a story. You wouldn’t believe who sent it to me even if I told you…

    Joe my point about Obama being a socialist isn’t because he supports Wealth redistribution. He is socialist because that is what he aspires to be. His entire life (validated by his own words) he has surrounded himself radicals, socialists and Marxists. IT IS A FACT.

    He is leveraging the Saul Alinsky playbook, he has mastered the Jedi mind trick and is trying to weasel his way into the Whitehouse on false pretense. It isn’t a conspiracy it is just a political methodology he is using to achieve his goal when if he ran on socialist platform he would receive single digit percentage of the vote.

    It is as clear as day and if the MSM had done their job we wouldn’t even be looking at this predicament today. Hillary or some other better qualified Democrat would be running in this race.

  178. (230) Actually MK you really drove home an important point. We all need to stand united against racism and hate doctrines. It is absurd that Rev Wright is even given the time of day.

    Just as I would stand one minute in the company of David Duke I would find Rev Wright just as reprehensible and for the life of me I just do NOT understand how Obama could have listened to his crap for over 20 years.

    I try to separate out the church thing when looking at a candidate but it is bizarre to me that anyone in the 21st century would find anything in common with someone like Duke or Wright.

    Just think about it for a second…would you spend more than a minute more in a church when a preacher said something like GD America…truly mind blowing and truly insulting.

  179. That is not voter suppression. That is a soldier who failed to correctly fill out his ballot.

    Actually, Hitler was not voted in by a majority. Your errors mount. In his first attempt, 70% of the German vote was against him. In the runoff, 63% voted against him. There followed a series of failed attempts to create a stable majority.

    Hitler was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg.

    Oh, and Hitler absolutely hated liberals.

  180. (232) Let me add one more thing. I have never been put in a position to be face to face with someone like Ayers, Wright, Duke or any of these people that exhibit such hatred.

    But I truly believe in my heart that if I ever were face to face with someone like that I am not sure what I would do. I think it would take all the strength and fortitude I had not to rip their head off.

    This is a great country and the reason our country is great has nothing to do with the likes of that lot. Freedom of speech is an amazing thing but it definitely gets taken advantage of in this country.

    I find it hard to imagine that in 10 years or so that a Bin Laden could end up being a professor in one of our colleges…doesn’t that just sound so wrong?

  181. (233) As they say JCH…every person has at least on redeeming quality…lol…just kidding.

    We make statements about Hitler but right now it is 1939 when you look at what is happening in Iran. Let’s hope we have the courage and strength to not repeat another Chamberlain response to a serious threat.

    For some reason people seem to be happy to repeat history including the darkest of times.

  182. (233) JCH the way you blast non-liberals I can only imagine the following…

    You know the saying behind every great man is a woman…

    You must think everyone that is non-liberal would view that woman as Edith Bunker.

  183. Alright. Not to be “macro”, but isn’t there some data–psych./econ/soc. etc.– suggesting that the old “rational man” standard does not hold in many situations? Stanley Milgram’s experiment demonstrated something like that: people will behave irrationally (sadistic, unpredictable, etc) in many circumstances. Voting seems to bring that out.

    Large proportions of the population probably have mental disorders of various sorts; regardless, there’s an innate faith in the correctness of voting. Were humans conditioned properly in Skinnerville (time for yr reinforcement pill, Duckie), voting would most likely be superfluous….or have it done online, say, after you go through Vote-bot ware.

  184. No, you’re in error, JCH. Hitler and the nazis won the election by large majority in ’33, after the Reichstag fire. While a rather nasty piece of German history (and I’m not a fascist, so another libel), the reds also had a great deal of power (and a few hundred miles to the east, they held sham elections). The Reichstag fire was sort of a 9-11 like event (the reds are coming!–the left did pretty well in vote too), and the nazis manipulated that for their benefit; regardless, they had a great deal of popular support. After that, Hitler implemented various anti-democratic laws, but they came into power with a majority vote.

  185. JCH since you looped back to Hitler…lest we forget another Obama gem in the 2001 tape…

    Overlooked in the audio tape from Barack Obama’s interview on “redistributing the wealth” on WBEZ.FM in 2001 was his comparison of the US to Nazi Germany.

    “…just to take a, sort of a realist perspective…theres a lot of change going on outside of the Court, um, that, that judges essentially have to take judicial notice of. I mean youve got World War II, youve got uh, uh, uh, the doctrines of Nazism, that, that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home.”

    Even on our worst day we never even in the same ballpark of Nazi Germany this is just reflective of a very naive person and their world view. He completely misunderstands what Nazi Germany was all about. Probably explains why he thinks he can sit down have a chat with Iran.

  186. (240) Horatiox…didn’t Hitler have a memoir that was so popular and he didn’t really have any experience either?

    Didn’t Hitler chant real change. Didn’t Hilter have youths performing anthems in their pledges to him…

    Didn’t Ahmandinejad have his campaign use…Yes we can…

    Just because Obama has done of a lot of these same things doesn’t mean he is going to be like Hitler…just interesting to note now that we are talking about it.

  187. Move along folks…nothing to see here…even though Obama’s law firm led charge benefiting socialist party in Chicago.

    The law firm at which Sen. Barack Obama served as counsel led a legal charge to overturn state bans on allowing politicians to run as members of more than one party.

    A primary benefactor of the case – which the firm took to the Supreme Court – was the radical leftist New Party, which has close ties to the Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland law firm, where Obama was employed until 2004.

    The information comes amid evidence that emerged last week showing Obama belonged to the New Party, which sought to elect members to public office with the aim of moving the Democratic Party far leftward to ultimately form a new political party with a socialist agenda.

    In 1997, Davis, Miner and Barnhill’s Madison, Wisc.-based partner Sarah Siskind reportedly went to the Supreme Court to lead the main fight to allow electoral “fusion,” which enabled candidates to run on two tickets simultaneously, attracting voters from both parties. The New Party relied on fusion and went defunct in 1998, one year after Siskind lost the Supreme Court case.

    Siskind is the wife of Joel Rogers, a socialist activist and University of Wisconsin-Madison law professor who was the co-founder and national chair of the New Party. Siskind, who worked with Obama at the firm and later donated to Obama’s presidential campaign, was also a key attorney representing the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which maintained a close alliance with the New Party.

    But really he isn’t a socialist…not at all. I actually don’t even think he is black anymore. This just keeps going farther left.

    No wonder he claims he was born in Hawaii…you can’t go any farther left than Hawaii in this country…one more step left and you would have to be in the drink!

  188. Hitler was appointed Chancellor before the fire. After the fire Hindenburg suspended civil liberties. Two weeks after the fire the Reichstag delegated its powers to Hitler. He suspended the German constitution.

    In 1924 Hindenburg died, and the office of President was abolished by Hitler.

    The Nazis never won a majority vote under the German constitution.

  189. Well I guess the Michelle Obama tapes are going to be released tomorrow. If it is true what they claim she has said on the tapes…it will truly be over.

    What a fiasco…

  190. The Obama of 2008 is not the Obama of 1998: but his record does seem rather socialist (and numerous voter groups think so as well). Obama work with Ayers and pals for years on various projects, and he was a community activist in very poor areas of Chicago, etc. He’s got a lot of juice with the unions too. In his bio he admits to respecting leftists, etc. OK, Obama’s not Karl Marx, but his leftist past remains an issue (as does his mob and muslim connections–).

  191. Hindenberg appointed Hitler Chancellor in early 33, but the nazis were the majority party by that time (they banned other parties after taking over). The vote was in March I believe, and Hitler won. The nazis had wide popular support, and came into power by democratic means (mostly): it wasn’t a coup as some liberals seem to suggest. A total nightmare (at least the camps were), but Stalin’s total body count exceeds nazi crimes, supposedly.

  192. Hitler never won a majority vote. The Nazi party took a large number of seats – 230 out of 608 -, but still less than a majority.

  193. Not quite: the coalition of nazis and nationalists (both supporting Hitler) won control. They did not have 2/3 majority or something, but had the majority, as I claimed. The wiki lays it out pretty well, or review Shirer’s Rise and Fall of 3rd Reich.

  194. Glenn even if there is a rant by Michelle Obama (I have my doubts), it hardly suggests much of anything. Are you saying we’d use Cindy McCain’s personal history as some sort of indication of John McCain’s presidential approaches?

  195. Obviously if a majority of the members voted to delegate its authority to Hitler, then a lot of members voted with the 230 Nazi party members.

    A majority of the German people never voted for Hitler.

  196. (253) Two big differences Joe…

    1) The NYT made Michelle a direct target for anyone else.
    2) If what is true about Michelle on those tapes it will expose her as a racist. That will backfire big time.

    If Cindy had said racist comments during this election I would be all over it.

  197. There was a popular vote in March ’33, and the german people voted for the coalition, which along with Hindenberg, had already approved of Hitler.

    Picture a pie graph, with 6 or 7 parties (instead of just two), and the nazis the biggest slice of pie by far; including their close allies the nationalists and a catholic party, they take the majority. So a majority of people voted for a coalition led by the maniacal Der Fuhrer. The voice of the people ain’t the voice of “God.”

  198. Another interview with Bill Ayers in 2000…

    This guy is a piece of work! The real truth about Ayers comes at about 7 minutes into the interview…

  199. Move along folks…nothing o see here…

    Just 23 days before a crooked fundraiser helped Sen. Barack Obama buy his Chicago mansion, a billionaire bagman for Saddam Hussein wired millions into the crook’s account.

    “Barack Obama appears to have personally benefited from funds originating in Saddam Hussein’s regime,” said Mideast expert Daniel Pipes.

    Former Iraqi official Nadhmi Auchi bankrolled his longtime friend and business partner, Syrian immigrant and Chicago slumlord Tony Rezko, who in turn bankrolled Obama’s political career before being convicted this year of fraud.

  200. Simply unbelievable…

    Just three weeks earlier, Rezko – who at the time was under indictment and virtually bankrupt – received a $3.5 million wire transfer from Auchi, his “close friend” and partner, who smuggled weapons to Saddam’s regime.

    A year before their real estate deal, Obama, fresh off his U.S. Senate win, attended a dinner that Rezko hosted honoring Auchi at the Four Seasons hotel in downtown Chicago. There, he met with Rezko, as well as his career mentor, Emil Jones, president of the Illinois senate, where Obama had previously served. Jones also is close to Auchi.

    While Obama acknowledges attending the 2004 event, he claims having no memory of meeting Auchi there.

    “I just don’t recall,” he said, even though the dinner was held in Auchi’s honor and Rezko had invited Obama to meet him and other friends.

    What’s more, Rezko that same year had held another reception for Auchi, this time at his mansion; and according to court testimony in Rezko’s trial, both Barack and Michelle Obama attended the reception and met Auchi.

    Auchi at the time was under investigation by the U.S. government. The Pentagon had accused him of perpetrating fraud in Iraq, and he was subsequently barred from future entry into the U.S.

    Yeah Obama isn’t corrupt at the least. He is the most honest politician ever to come out of Chicago!

  201. Lies, distortions, more lies.

    The LA Times says they made a commitment to the source of the tape to not air it. They say the story in which they revealed the existence of the tape is their final word.

    Coverup 101 – nobody mentions a tape they intend to bury in their own news story.


  202. Father of progressive taxation – Adam Smith

    Enthusiastic believer in progressive taxation – Teddy Roosevelt

    Father of affirmative action – Richard Nixon

    Father of the Earned Income Tax Credit (redistribution of wealth) – Ronald Reagan

    Their son – Barrack Obama

  203. I do not know enough about Mr. Wright to make a judgment either way, but after doing some digging it does appear that his comments were taken out of context. I personally don’t believe that he preached “every day for 20 years” some message of hatred as Fox News would have everyone believe, particularly after watching what Fox showed, and then watching the context. Here’s a video with the the context:

    Again, I am not justifying his behavior, but I think the case is vastly overstated. Pat Robertson, Falwell, and co. have preached hatred and intolerance for many, many years on the basis of their interpretation of the Bible. Where they may not dare to tread into race, they certainly do in religious intolerance and sexual orientation. I don’t see Wright’s behavior (from what I’ve seen so far, with an emphasis on the context), as unusual for charismatic Christian churches. I have not seen him call for violence. I have not seen him say anything I haven’t heard elsewhere in charismatic churches, particularly inner city churches where oppression is a common theme from the pulpit.

    Again, a legit question here: Can you point me to the factual evidence that shows his record of inciting violence _with the context_? Also, can you show me factual evidence that shows he preached violence for 20 years in Obama’s presence? I’d like to see it for myself, but soundbites simply don’t count, because it eliminates the all-important context, as Palin and co. continually demonstrate.

  204. IMHO Rezko is probably the most controversial of the legitimate Obama connections, but the Auchi connection looks totally trivial to me. Rezko stuff is very well vetted and nothing that should keep O out of the big house.

    Also IMHO Rev. Wright stuff has really been overblown as well. It is amazing how *little* controversial dialog there is from his decades as a minister. I think the FOX “hit tape”, played over and over, represents most of his controversial stuff. In the same way you cannot listen to a Chris Rock HBO special and then conclude he’s some sort of uncle tom racist maniac, you cannot reasonably make sweeping generalizations about Wright based on his most controversial stuff.

    I agree with critics who say Wright’s infatuation with liberation theology and divisive type of preaching is misguided, but it does not follow that Obama supports or believes identically to Wright – all the evidence points to the contrary.

    Saddam Obama connections? Are you joking again? Glenn the Reagan administration, under Rumsfeld’s guidance, had a *fairly cozy* relationship with Saddam as part of the anti Iran campaign. It was questionable realpolitik that helped Saddam consolidate his power over the Iraqis and strengthen his regime. Compare this popular position that McCain supported to Obama’s non connections with Iraq

    There are already more foreign and domestic policy skeletons in the McCain closet than Obama could hope to have after years in the Presidency.

  205. The LA Times tape probably has Michelle Obama saying some minor thing that would be wildly used out of context, but I don’t know. What remains really notable is how there are so few statements by B. Obama that are even remotely controversial to regular folks. Everything that comes out – or in the case of the infamous Michelle tapes does NOT come out – is hyped up to the point of absurdity. Obama says “Share” and the right wing spin machine screams “COMMIE”. Very few buy these bizarre interpretations except the folks who are fabricating them.

    All the controversies are almost totally manufactured to exaggerate his (very liberal Dem) record as if he’s a manchurian candidate. I actually think this is yet another of McCain’s campaign errors. Rather than focus people on the reality of an Obama and congress who will be our most liberal of all time and probably very out of touch with mainstream America, they tried to focus attention on associates with whom Obama had only minor connections, the silly socialism myth, and or some supporters even some flirtations with racial fearmongering.

    I’m expecting some pretty whacky stuff to come out over the next few days. Given the history of huge distortion of the facts by Corsi, Berg and many blogs I’ll be very skeptical.

  206. Joe the Plumber running for office? Glenn, I guess all that media attention didn’t hurt him too bad after all, and maybe now he really will have a shot at 250k plus if he heads for a K street after a congressional run.

  207. (264) MK…with all due respect you are missing a very key point about Rev Wright. I suggest you take a moment and review the entire basis of his church. Black Liberation theology and James Cone.

    It is very clear that the entire church is built upon hatred and that speech from Rev Wright would indeed by typical of what comes from that pulpit. He is also a hypocrite with his affairs he has had with church members.

    Then add in some Rev Phleger. The entire scenario is absurd and the church leaders Cone, Wright and Phleger are instruments of hate. It is a downright disgrace.

  208. (265) Joe these connections and associations keep coming up for Obama and he is personally benefiting from these scumbags. Obama’s old…hey this guy is someone from my neighborhood is just total BS…you know it, America knows it and Obama is lying through his teeth about all of this.

    He is a corrupt and paid for politician.

  209. (266) The LA Times tape as nothing to do really with Michelle. The API is claiming they have a tape with her on it saying some pretty bad things however I am rather skeptical about it.

    The LA Times reported in May that they were at an event back in 2003 (just a few years ago) where they were having a farewell dinner for Khalidi and Obama was there, Ayers and Dorhn where there, etc.

    The speeches given at the farewell dinner were anti-semantic and pretty much brutal toward Israel.

    I am sure there is a lot more than what the LA Times has reported and their refusal to release the video tape is just more fodder for people to wonder about Obama.

    I don’t understand why he just doesn’t come out and say he is in full support of Palestine, Iran, Cuba and Venezuela and he wants Israel to fall.

    He is clearly a radical who supports the same doctrine as SDS, Ayers and socialists. If you want to continue to refuse these dozens of relevant connections you are simply looking through raging left loon glasses.

    America is now getting to the truth and Obama is definitely going to lose this election and he should. He is least electable person in this country and the DNC really has blown this opportunity to take the Whitehouse.

    Remember Obama has a litmus test for supreme court justices, he feels the constitution is fundamentally flawed and he wants the supreme court to rewrite it. NO WAY THAT WILL FLY IN AMERICA.

    Face it – Barack Obama does not represent more than 10% of the people in this country and there is no way he would be good for this country.

  210. You guys want to tout the polls when it is favorable for Obama but when Rasmussen and others prove that FOX is viewed by the majority of Americans as the least biased you want to continue to slam FOX. It has been proven that they have a near 50-50 representation of both liberals and conservatives on their shows.

    Contrast that to MSDNC and you can see a stark difference.

    All of this way out of control bias is going to create a very significant backlash.

  211. BTW have you noticed that the 250k benchmark keeps getting lowered. Now according to Biden the tax line is below $142k and no longer $250k as tax experts reveal the truth of the Obama tax plans.

    A lot of small business make more than $140k a year.

  212. Joe can you believe this…

    Obama wants a national security force that is just as powerful and as well funded as our military.

    Obama if elected would become a facist for sure. He will seek to put down anyone who challenges him.

    Where is he going to get the money for this? You want to see major military cuts and here Obama wants to double the cost plus he wants his own personal military to be used against the citizens of this country – that goes against EVERYTHING our country stands for and our rights to bear arms.

    This guy is just plain dangerous.

  213. A Study in Character Assassination.

    ABC, CBS and NBC are running 18 negative stories about Palin for every 1 positive story.

    Where is America when they can’t give a woman a fair shake in the political process? This is another emerging disgrace within this country. Where is the outrage? They did it to Geradine, Hillary and now Palin.

    Unbelievable…yet you guys will continue to protect MSM – they should all be boycotted and put out of business. Why should we allow them to make up our minds unless of course we want to be a country filled with mindless lemmings?

  214. More hypocrisy and fraud from Obama’s campaign.

    The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the Obama campaign confirmed that it’s “allowing donors to use largely untraceable prepaid credit cards that could potentially be used to evade limits on how much an individual is legally allowed to give or to mask a contributor’s identity.” Why is this story not on Page One?

    The Obama team’s disclosures came in response to questions from The Washington Post about the case of Mary T. Biskup, a retired insurance manager from Manchester, Mo., who turned up on Obama’s FEC reports as having donated $174,800 to the campaign. Contributors are limited to giving $2,300 for the general election.

    Biskup, who had scores of Obama contributions attributed to her, said in an interview that she never donated to the candidate. “That’s an error,” she said. Moreover, she added, her credit card was never billed for the donations, meaning someone appropriated her name and made the contributions with another card.

    Doesn’t this stuff bother you guys? Who knows where this money could be coming from?

  215. Now MSM wants you to believe that voter fraud is no big deal since it is an American Tradition.

    The charges of voter fraud stem from the number of irregular voter registrations turned in by Acorn this year. By some reports, up to 30 percent of the 1.3 million voter registrations the group gathered were faulty. Democrats say the level of problem registrations is surprisingly high, but they dispute the Republican contention that it is an attempt to steal the election, calling such claims outlandish.

    Whether or not the Acorn mess is an attempt at voter fraud, partisans have been trying to game the system for as long as there have been democratic elections. Questionable election tactics were used by many of the founding fathers. Even George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were not above wooing unmotivated voters to the polls with free rum on Election Day.

    This is where we are going…let’s continue to lower the bar and allow corruption and fraud to run rampant as long as it helps the person we want to get elected. Again the end justifies the means…

  216. A great opinion today from Thomas Sowell over at Stanford.

    A Perfect Storm

    Some elections are routine, some are important and some are historic. If Senator John McCain wins this election, it will probably go down in history as routine. But if Senator Barack Obama wins, it is more likely to be historic— and catastrophic.

    Once the election is over, the glittering generalities of rhetoric and style will mean nothing. Everything will depend on performance in facing huge challenges, domestic and foreign.

    Performance is where Barack Obama has nothing to show for his political career, either in Illinois or in Washington.

    Policies that he proposes under the banner of “change” are almost all policies that have been tried repeatedly in other countries— and failed repeatedly in other countries.


    Joe this guy is a real American as well…

  217. “Of course the LA Times has no problem releasing the video on Arnold in 2006. …”

    Did the source of the tape make them agree to not release it?

  218. “Doesn’t this stuff bother you guys? Who knows where this money could be coming from? …:”

    I’ve been the victim of credit-card fraud. Credit-card fraud bothers me.

    But that has absolutely nothing to do with Obama.

    My gawd you can get lost.

  219. (279) JCH you actually believe that? Unbelievable. Our source asked us to keep the video confidential but it is ok to publish a story about it…ROFL.

    How is your raging left loon infused kool-aid this morning?

    If the article is accurate why are they worried about releasing the video? Is the source worried that Obamanation might seek revenge?

  220. “But if Senator Barack Obama wins, it is more likely to be historic— and catastrophic. …”

    I wonder if that moron predicted that the election of GWB was going to be catastrophic.


  221. The source okayed writing a story about it.

    You would have to ask the source. They have every right to make such a deal with the newspaper, and the newspaper has a contract with them that they appear to intend to honor.

    There have been situations like this where sources have released the newspaper from their obligation.

    Is it okay? Of course it is. My gawd you can get lost.

  222. (280) Yep I get it…as long as Obama is the benefactor it is ok for laws to be broken, fraud to perpetuated…

    After all the end justifies the means…

    JCH you are what they call a sheeple.

    Why don’t you think for yourself for once? Why don’t you decide to take a stand for what is right regardless of party? Why is it so hard for you to stand up and say…hey that’s wrong and that shouldn’t be happening?

    You are a left apologist…

  223. (283) The only catastrophe here is the potential election of a racist to the Whitehouse.

    I am all for people of all ethnicity’s to run for office but we have to stand together on stomping out racists who intend to take office.

    The more you learn about Obama and Michelle it becomes painfully clear they represent a form of racism shrouded with a veil of ultra left liberalism and political correctness.

  224. Here is a great video from Rev Peterson. He maintains a very positive view on how Blacks can succeed in this country. In this video at a speech yesterday at Texas A&M he goes through the history in this country and how Black Americans have been hijacked by the Democratic left. Remember the Democrats are the same ones who perpetuated slavery and finally segregation.


    Watch the video if you want to hear a reasonable mainstream view of Black America by a great black reverend.

  225. Obama speechwriter switches to McCain – of course ignored by MSM.

    Imagine if a speechwriter for John McCain had switched sides and announced she was going to vote for Barack Obama. Would she not be featured bigtime in the mainstream media complete with new thrills running up Chris Matthews leg? Well, this did happen except that it was an Obama speechwriter, Wendy Button, who became disillusioned with The One and switched supporting McCain. Here are the highlights of Wendy Button’s explanation of why she made the switch:

    Since I started writing speeches more than ten years ago, I have always believed in the Democratic Party. Not anymore. Not after the election of 2008. This transformation has been swift and complete and since I’m a woman writing in the election of 2008, “very emotional.”


    The awakening is happening.

  226. …Not only has this party belittled working people in this campaign from Joe the Plumber to the bitter comments, it has also been part of tearing down two female candidates.

    Important point. While I don’t love HRC, the Obamamites (especially “bros”) dissed HRC continually; the blogger leftists abused HRC constantly since she declared her intention to run. The same thing’s happening with Palin. The attacks on Palin, the slashing satire, the daily insults have little to do with politics, and everything to do with sexism. Even some liberals have protested the SNL-Fey BS (mostly silly urban fluff anyway–): who needs political discussion when you can just put politicians in overalls and have them speak like yokels…(where’s the satire of say Obama chatting with some of his palestinian or saudi pals at an east african goat grab? a bit too steep for Ms Lorne Michaels and Co.)

    Wendy Button did this for Ms. Palin, hopefully. She could have done worse. N O on B O.

  227. Dude, I grew up herding sheep, and cattle, and pigs.

    You behave like a sheep. Totally befuddled by information. Confused. Almost always panics and goes in the wrong direction. Unable to sort out sensory information.

    The most likely reason the source does not want the tape released is financial. What they have could end up being worth a lot of money if Obama is elected.

    Give the boot to John McPainMcShameMcBUSH. He’s horrible.

    You put out such a total pile of garbage there is no way I can avoid defending the left.

  228. Obama’s election day holiday for America is forecast to cost our GDP $55 billion if people took the day off.

    Just what we need with these difficult times.

    Obama is clueless…

  229. Sheep? That’s Obama’s peoples. As I have said many times, I have no love for McCain and Palin, and grant they are opportunists, rightists, biblethumpers. BO-Biden on the other hand are east coast bureaucrats, insiders, big govt. liberals with quite a few socialist hints (however much that word offends the Latteocrats). Button’s article, however trivial it might seem to hipster leftists, points out the problem–that said, she would have done better going with say Barr, or, given the choice between rightist outlaws, and big-govt. apparatchiks, not voting at all.

  230. The sheep are the conservatives. If you want sheep to go into the slaughter house, all you have to do is scare them.

    Shout “Socialist”, and the sheep will all turn and run to their deaths.

    That is why Joe the Plumber is going to vote against the guy whose tax policy most benefits him and his child. He’s scared of socialism.

    What an idiot.

    In 2001 McCain opposed GWB’s tax cuts because they placed too much of a burden upon the poor. He apparently wanted to keep Clinton’s tax plan. LMAO. In 2001 McBush actually was McCain, but that McCain is long gone now. He’s been replaced by some frantic, irrational, unstable bought-off nitwit.

    Joe the Plumber – a sheep in sheep’s clothing.

  231. Sheep are on both sides a plenty, and Demos are the traditional populist, big govt. party. The liberal media doesn’t bother showing the real demos: urban slum dwellers, welfare recipients, union goons, with some naive eco-crats out in the ‘burbs. Outlaw GOP vs. DNC apparatchiks: so, refuse the ticket.

  232. “Big Government!” – just another way to herd conservative sheep.

    “Welfare Recipients!” – just another way to herd conservative sheep.

    “Urban Slum Dwellers!” – just another way to heard conservative sheep.

    See, sheep are easily frightened. You spook them to herd them. They can’t think once they’re spooked.

    “Union Goons!” – quick, head to corral so JCH’s dad can cut our balls off.

  233. Yo’re herding DNCocrat sheep, or rather swine. You seem to think you’re voting for some mild-mannered college boy liberal: Obama as replacement for Al Gore. You’re not. Obama’s not a slim-downed Al Gore (and he supports big coal as well). You’re voting for someone who came to power through leftist organizations (not traditional democrat), who pals around with mobsters and muslims, whose voting record has been voted the most leftist in USA. Yes, those are talking points: you simply ignore them. Better to doubt than to believe.

    Really, I’ve had about enough of the political hysteria game (and I suspect Mr Duck’s tired of it as well). That said, I don’t think someone who values the principles of the Founding Fathers (secular principles at that) can vote for Obama with a good conscience. The BO peoples are not about Madison, Jefferson, or even JFK: they’re about the party. They vote BO in hopes of like getting admittance to Club Barack.

  234. Electoralprojection.com is a decidedly Republican leaning blog site that tracks polls and makes electoral projections. Here is their post from Monday:

    “Eight days from Election Day, here is this blogger’s conclusion: Barack Obama will win this election in a landslide. He will capture at least 350 electoral votes and win the popular vote by 7% or more. McCain may benefit from some measure of the Bradley Effect, but that advantage will be overwhelmed by African-American turnout, Palin-induced defections by moderates, and under-funded, unenthusiastic GOP get-out-the-vote efforts. This week’s update shows Obama with a 375-163 electoral vote edge. The actual result may be a tad closer, but I’d be less surprised if his victory surpassed even that landslide tally.”

    Personally I prefer the Democratic leaning electoral-vote.com, but I go to both sites to get a balanced view.

  235. African-American turnout.

    You got that right. And for a few nanoseconds, here’s some honesty regarding race: blacks (and hispanics) still underperform whites and asians significantly in education scores, IQ ratings, and other standardized tests. Blacks of course outperform everyone in terms of incarceration ratios, and violent crimes (and other crime stats). That’s who will be bringing homie Barack into power next week.

  236. “I don’t think someone who values the principles of the Founding Fathers (secular principles at that) can vote for Obama with a good conscience. The BO peoples are not about Madison, Jefferson, or even JFK: they’re about the party. They vote BO in hopes of like getting admittance to Club Barack. …’

    My father is 90 years old. He once worked for Harry Truman’s campaign when he was a Senator from Missouri. He fought with JFK in the Solomons. He has known almost every Democratic Presidential candidate in his lifetime. A former President recently knelt by his wheelchair and thanked him for what he has done for his country and his party.

    He is perfectly comfortable voting for Barrack Obama.

    You are spewing hogwash, and I know what hogwash looks like and smells like. I grew up farming and ranching.

    You and Glenn just aren’t used to having anybody challenge the white-trash crap you put out.

  237. (296) And how exactly do you go to both sites to get a balanced view?

    (297) Horatiox and you know what…they are falling behind because of the hate indoctrination from the Jesse Jacksons, Rev Wrights, etc. One of these days they are going to wake and realize who is really causing them to be held back. It ain’t no whitey! MLK had it right and we right to toss Jackson out to the curb. It is really a shame that the great things that MLK stood for is so misconstrued today.

    Need I even mention Louis Farrakhan…what a shame and talk about sheeple.

    Now we learn today that API is reporting that Obama’s campaign has offered $3 million to API to cancel their agreement with FOX and send the Michelle Obama tape to their campaign.

    As Rev Wright likes to say…it looks like their chickens are coming home to roost! JCH maybe you can help Obama with his new farming responsibilities.

  238. Both sites have a bias, they’re not bashful about admitting it, and so they may interpret polling data as more favorable to their chosen candidate. I think it is compelling that the site that is clearly for McCain is conceding that the election is lost, and by a sizable margin. I am more cautious than that, the image of Truman holding that headline saying he lost pops into my brain often, but I remain hopeful that the polls are right and that – after 8 years of anguished misery – we can restore some degree of confidence and hope about the abilities of our President.

  239. Florida today announces that over 100,000 felons have illegally registered to vote in Florida. Gee I bet you are wondering who did this? The vast majority have registered Democrat and over 30,000 of them are violent offenders.

    Florida concedes it will NOT be able to fix the problem by election day.

    Nothing to see here…there is nothing wrong with felons illegally registering to vote and then voting.

    I am sure JCH will find a reason why this is a good thing…

  240. By “illegal” can you be more specific? Because Florida, with the blessing of a Republican governor, has made it legal for convicted felons to vote after they’ve served their sentence along with 11 other states.

    Are the illegal registrants still in jail?

  241. (302) They need to petition the state of FL to reinstate their legal ability to vote. These have not fulfilled that requirement.

    Funny how states want to throw out an absentee ballot because it doesn’t have a check box marked…but we can’t stop people who are legally barred from voting…lol

  242. BTW after tonight’s Obamamercial I have received an early version of the Republicans rebuttal. You can see it now to be prepared.

  243. Glenn where is the AP story about the Michelle Tape – I’m skeptical about the 3 million tape buyback claim – that sounds like the kind of thing the Berg team puts out without evidence.

  244. (306) Joe it is the API. African Press International.

    I will dig up the link for you…in the meantime I have my own Michelle Obama tape. 🙂

  245. (306) Joe here you go.


    I am pretty skeptical about these guys but we will see.

    In regard to the LA Times video with Khalidi. I have it from a good source that the following is said on the tape:

    Obama congratulates Khalidi for his work saying “Israel has no God-given right to occupy Palestine” plus there’s been “genocide against the Palestinian people by Israelis.”

    Who knows…

  246. Obama is spending $293,000 an hour to win this election. You would think with the economy the way it is, the Bush record and the amount of spending by Obama he should be ahead by 30 points at this point.

    America is just not buying it.

  247. Obama is spending $293,000 an hour to win this election.

    Yes, and the Jellycrats have, as usual, completely overlooked Obama’s massive treasure-chest, like four or five times that of McCain’s. BO has spent like double what McCain has on negative ads as well (another “talking point” that the blogger left used to discuss, until they realized that ibn Obama & Co. didn’t give a F. about all the touchy-feely campaign reform BS). Meet the new boss, same as the old boss–actually, probably worse than the old boss.

  248. (310) What bothers me the most Horatiox is the prepaid credit card contributions that cannot be traced coming into Obama’s campaign. It is amounting to 10’s of millions of dollars and it most certainly being used to skirt the campaign donation laws.

    Obama is such a hypocrite…

  249. Florida has a Republican Secretary of State. It’s his job to take convicted felons off the voter registration rolls.

    I don’t know what to say. Republicans are incompetent? Sounds about right to me.

    John McCain – father of opposition to the Bush tax cuts – the crooked-talk express

  250. (312) JCH I am surprised you didn’t make a statement about the pre-paid credit card donations to Obama…I figured you were going to say it is campaign donation suppression if they don’t accept anonymous donations…lol

    Latest Rasmussen…McCain more trusted on Taxes and Economy – guess that Bush label just isn’t sticking but that old socialist tag is looking mighty nice on Obama lapel.

    Face it JCH gig is up! Obama has been exposed and America will make the right choice in just a few days…

  251. “Dan Pfeiffer, Obama’s communication’s director, said that “no organization can fully insulate itself from these problems. The McCain campaign has accepted contributions from fraudulent contributors like ‘A for You,’ ‘Adorable Manabat,’ ‘The Gun Shop,’ and ‘Jesus II’ and hundreds of anonymous donors.” …”

    “Election lawyer Brett Kappel said the FEC has never grappled with the question of cash cards. “The whole system is set up for them to accept the payment, then determine whether it is legal or not. And if it’s not, send it back. That’s what the statute requires,” he said. …”

    It’s you and your ilk who have been exposed.

  252. (315) If they took the basic precautions that all online shopping carts do…these transactions would be rejected.

    All Obama had to do was keep to his promise he made with McCain about public financing. He didn’t, he broke his promise like he has done with literally every single campaign promise he has ever even made.

    First he wasn’t going to tax anyone below 250k, then he adjusted to 200k and now Biden has it to 142k…how low do you think he will go? Just check his record. He taxes everyone every single chance he gets.

    Funny how things like Khalidi, Ayers, etc don’t matter in this campaign but if you rewind back to 2000 just before the election a DUI from 20 years earlier made the big time news

    The only problem with McCain getting elected is he won’t push hard enough to bury the extreme far left in this country.

  253. He never adjusted anything to $200,000.00.

    Is there anybody on the face of the earth who is easier to lie to than you? You fall anything. It’s astonishing.

    $250,000 family. $200,000 individual.

    LMAO. You are the biggest sucker.

  254. So much for factcheck.org

    The “Truthfulness” website called FactCheck.org is itself decidedly BIASED toward the LEFT as the discussion that follows points out.

    The ANNENBERG Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania is the organization behind the FactCheck.org website that is being consulted OFTEN by voters and media personalities alike to help them form opinions on the “truthfulness” of the claims being made by the McCain and Obama political ads as well as statements made on the Campaign Trail and in Presidential and Vice Presidential debates.

    Kathleen Hall Jamieson, Ph.D. is the Director of the ANNENBERG Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania which is the organization BEHIND the FactCheck.org “truthfulness” website.

    Dr. Jamieson’s newest book entitled “Echo Chamber: Rush Limbaugh and the Conservative Media Establishment” is a MAJOR HIT PIECE against the Conservative voices in the media on television, radio, and in print. View the book’s Table of Contents: http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/echochamber/

    In Dr. Jamieson’s biography on the APPC website, she states that during the 2004 general election she regularly appeared on “NOW With Bill Moyers” and “The NewsHour,” and throughout the 2008 campaign is appearing regularly on “Bill Moyers Journal.” http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/Bio.aspx?myUsername=kjamieson

    In a 2003 interview with BuzzFlash.com, Bill Moyers said, “The corporate right and the political right declared class warfare on working people a quarter of a century ago and they’ve won.”

    Moyers went on to say that the American public has failed to react this fact because it is, “distracted by the media circus and news which has been neutered or politicized for partisan purposes.” In support of this statement Moyers referred to “the paradox of Rush Limbaugh [who is] ensconced in a Palm Beach mansion massaging the resentments across the country of white-knuckled wage earners, who are barely making ends meet in no small part because of the corporate and ideological forces for whom Rush has been a hero…”

    What’s the bottom line? FactCheck.org is a LEFT-BIASED organization that has sold itself as “Politically NEUTRAL” to America’s voters and media personnel.

  255. (317) Funny how you skip Biden’s comments at $142k.

    If $200k is for an individual then why isn’t family $400k?

    The fact that you actually think Obama is going to cut taxes only proves you be the sucka.

  256. Glenn you are a one many blog posting machine! I go to get a cup of coffee and there are dozens of new ones. Good show.

    Glenn, Glenn, Glenn! The “African Press International” should be assigned a credibility factor of … close to zero. Based on Netherlands and reporting only anti-Obama news for a US audience, I think they are a sort of shadow hit blog set up by a McCain supporter – perhaps even his campaign. What isn’t garbage there isn’t reliable enough to consider. They were a big promoter of the fake “Kenya birth” story.

    Biden on taxes: His comments were not a new policy statement, and I think an approx 250k per family rule is still the best nonpartisan interpretation of Obama’s plans.

    Because Obama wants a HUGE spending stimulous (a mistake in my view) I see little reason to think he’ll back down on this plan immediately though I agree that whoever is elected will be raising taxes eventually. The *main reason* for this required raise is the unconsciounably reckless spending of the past 8 Bush years, proving that ther are no longer many fiscally conservative Republicans, only pretenders.

  257. Joe I think Joe the Plumber is going to be a country music star long before he is a politician…wait until this hits the streets…lol

  258. Then why do you keep bringing them up?

    In the last week there have been several specious reports circulating about both Palin and McCain. In one the US Navy is withholding information. I’ve not mentioned a single one.

    Why? Because they’re specious. I could falsely claim the fact that the Navy is sitting on information means there is fire, but I won’t do that. The fact that they are sitting on the information means one thing: they’re sitting on the information.

  259. 😆 New computer analysis says Ayers likely “Ghost Writer” of Obama book. 😆

    Glenn, I agree with the laughter part. I think the same computer has been used to say Obama was born in Kenya to a communist pedophile, the earth is 6000 years old, and that
    Michelle Obama was previously married to Farrakhan.

    When not in use for that it’s making robocalls to get Joe the Plumber elected and suppressing the vote. (Glenn, Joe P is very fair game now that he’s in the campaign and he deserves a lot less credit than he’s got so far).

    Incredibly though, that computer does all that without even being plugged in!

  260. (325) BTW Joe…the analysis was done by independent experts at universities and the time line fits.

    Hypothetically if William Ayers was the primary author of Obama’s memoirs does that matter to you?

    Keep in mind that many people have read that book and believed it was written by Obama. What do you think the impact would be if people found out that he didn’t write this?

  261. Joe what do you think about the growing scandal involving Obama’s campaign contributions.

    Their online site has disabled AVS – address verification system to validate credit card purchases. It is used literally by 100% of the online merchants out there. Without you risk unprecedented levels of fraud.

    In September alone 2/3’s of his 150 million raise was done through these transactions.

    Additionally even though McCain has released his donor list of $200 or less contributors Obama is refusing to release his list – $300 million of his campaign cash has come from these contributors?

    It seems pretty obvious that they are openly committed fraud with this deliberate donation structure and their refusal to release their donor lists.

  262. Glenn if Ayers wrote Obama’s book I will eat my computer.

    Keep in mind that even if Obama *loved* Ayers like a brother your conspiracy theory would have kept them completely separate. Obama’s had his eyes on the prize for years – he would not jeopardize this with any unnecessary associations.

    Of course the truth is almost certainly that he does not even agree with much of anything Bill Ayers says or does, since Obama’s got a lot of history and it’s clear on his intentions and beliefs.

    But Glenn I also want to make two important points. First, Ayers was a two-bit mentally disturbed tiny terrorist, fighting a pitiful and tired Marxist lost cause. He’s been elevated to some sort of “major threat to freedom” Bin laden status which is so far beyond the pale I don’t even know where you are coming from. Basically he’s pretty much a now-harmless nobody, only of interest because he can be used to paint Obama in a negative light.

    More importantly while I’m fine having you or anybody shout down jerks like Ayers, I feel that regular socialists have every right to be heard. Most are (far too!) non-violent in my opinion which is a lot more than I can say for some of the right wing stuff I’m reading at Obama hate blogs where the dialog is just shy of promoting a violent overthrow of our US Democracy because they don’t like the likely winner. Now THAT’s something to worry about.

    I don’t share your view that any associations can be viewed as some sort of “red card” for participation in politics or our grand and glorious US experiment, and you almost seem to think “socialism” is a worse fate than the right wing alternatives. History in general suggests we have a great system and all indications are we’ll keep it that way on and after Nov 2.

    You’d said earlier you liked Reagan but it was under that administration (and esp. Nixon in Viet Nam) that the US used terror and terrorists as strategic tools/pawns in geopolitics. We still do (not much, but a little) and all big countries and most small ones always manage to work some terror into the war equation.

    If you are worried about terror associations many of our worst US offenders tended to be far right folks who helped the Central American death squad associates – Jesse Helms was the most notable, and his advocacy for terror in Central America was pretty outspoken. I always felt it was much harder to make my usual case that American values mean we are generally squarely with the “good guys” when folks like Helms were so sympathetic to death squads during the terror from both sides in the battles for Central America.

    A controversial, often diabolically barbaric, but strategically effective program in Vietnam was the Phoenix program directed by Bill Colby. Torture, terror, and assassinations – mostly by So. Vietnamese Army and intelligence – directed by US intelligence. Sure, the NVA was doing worse than we were, and traditionally US counterintelligence programs have a lot of checks and balances, but you cannot possibly participate in modern warfare without working with some terrorists and having some rogue agents or regular soldiers commit terror acts.

    That’s the moral collateral damage of war and there are no alternatives despite what the left or right pretends should be ethical guidelines.

    Nope, I’m not worried that little Bill Ayers is going to suddenly emerge as Secretary of Defense and turn over our nukes to Chavez. Obama will probably be tested though, and I would not want to be on the receiving end of the response. If Russia had not backed down in Cuba …. some of us would not be here now.

  263. (329) Joe I don’t think there is a conspiracy here (there definitely is one in regard to Freddie and Fannie).

    I think Obama’s strategy is right out of Saul Alinsky’s playbook.

    I think Ayers, Rezko, Khalidi,etc…etc…etc…all have played a major role in helping Obama shape his presidential run.

    Whether these whack jobs would be actual advisers to him while president – I would hope not.

    I think the facts are clear that Obama is beyond a far left liberal – he is most definitely a socialist and potentially a Marxist. I don’t think he agrees with MLK at all and I think he is an avid supporter of the Black Liberation Theology and Rev Wright is a deep friend and shares the same convictions.

    The reason I contend Obama is a fraud is exactly because of that.

    He hides his true nature, he hides his path, claims embarrassment, etc… All of this is done for a very good reason.

    He definitely has a lot of hide. So what is he hiding?

    Rational logic when looking at all the connections is that he supports a very far left agenda which is more closely connected to socialism and radical ideology than he does merely as a liberal. Anyone who seriously looks at the over 20 years of his history that we can only see about 25% part of and doesn’t think he is a socialist just doesn’t want to say the words.

    I also contend he is highly racist – now I know that isn’t the politically correct thing to say but frankly Black Liberation Theology is all about being a racist toward anyone who isn’t black.

    Now remember Rev Wright blamed the US government for spreading aids to the black population, etc…etc…

    Then you take Farrakhan who claims he was taken up in a spaceship…aye yi yi…

    It goes on and on. Yet Obama is a-ok with all of this.

    You may be fine accepting Obama’s brand and flavor of socialism and maybe you rationalize that since we already have a progressive tax system…why not take one more giant step?

    I completely respect anyone’s position and decision – my problem is Obama is not telling the American voter the truth.

    So let me ask you Yes/No question:

    If you knew Obama was a socialist, agreed with Palestine, was definitely going to raise taxes on everyone, and was a racist – would you vote for him?

  264. Glenn you are keeping people busy here! 😯
    Hey, is this a vote suppression effort? 😆

    Agree that some of the Obama campaign contributions look suspicious but nothing yet suggests to me that there are serious violations or anything that would affect outcomes.

    We are talking about hundreds of millions here, and there are going to be many irregularities. Seems a lot like the ACORN problems to me – several isolated incidents, no indication of affecting any outcomes, no indication of any conspiracies, and no likelihood of any campaign connections. Much of this is like suggesting Ashley Todd was briefed by the McCain campaign before her “Scarlet B” scandal hoax. Of course she was not and of course Obama is not going to jeopardize his entire campaign conspiring to to get a few truckloads of homeless drunks registered and then to the polls on Nov 2.

    C’mon!? Even if Obama’s campaign has no ethics (they do of course) it would be crazy to risk it all for a few thousand votes in a few places they are winning anyway. This is simple FOX News baiting. ACORN’s done a lot of shoddy work and I think they may have facilitated some fraud in registrations but Obama’s campaign appears totally unconnected to any of that AND it’s not going to have any effect on outcomes (well, perhaps negative on Obama, but certainly not positive since all those registrations are under a cloud and many will be challenged)

  265. Glenn – no – I would not vote for Obama in that case. Note that Obama is very outspoken on all those issues and you, he, and I agree on the basics of *every single one* of those points.

    ie: No Socialism for USA, No Racism, Do NOT raise everybody’s taxes, and protect Israel’s rights.

  266. (331) Joe why would anyone shut off AVS for online transactions? It makes no sense whatsoever unless you were planning some type of illegal activities.

    Most merchant providers won’t even accept your transactions without AVS.

    So with Obama’s campaign being so brilliant who could a decision like that be made?

  267. (332) I believe that if John McCain had relationships with radicals like Ayers and he attended a white supremacist church for 20 years, told everyone he was going to raise taxes and thought Israel wasn’t playing the game fairly.

    I can imagine what MSM would be saying EVERY SINGLE DAY.

  268. That is total BS – “some type illegal activities.”

    You are out of control.

    They prove them out later, and then send the donations back that fail the tests. that is exactly how the FEC wrote the regulations.

    Note that the biased article made no attempt to identify how much had been sent back already.

  269. I think the AVS decision was a poor one, but I don’t think it was as nefarious as Fox News (the National Enquirer of the news world) construe it. I think it is overly eager staffers trying to win at all cost – and they made a poor decision.

  270. (335) JCH that is flat out untrue.

    The simple answer…

    Activate AVS like EVERYONE else has to and the problem goes away.

    So explain to me how they return money to a donor without a valid address? You need the address to reverse the charge it is a two way process…that way you don’t have reverse fraud within a company. So you want us to believe that they just reserve the money or maybe they donate it to ACORN.

    We are talking about a lot of money.

    So go back to oil or farming or whatever else you decide you are doing today.

  271. (335) I built systems for shrinkage detection within the CPG space, fraud detection within the banking industry, fraud detection in the wireless industry and fraud detection on fixed asset bond trading systems.

    Do you know what the #1 vehicle for fraud is in the banking system?

    Your account deposit slips.

  272. (339) As McCain said…donations between organizations are not the same as direct personal relationships…otherwise we would all be discussing in much greater detail the money trail that Obama has with these people in addition to the direct personal ties.

  273. Glenn – instead of these tenuous (a best) guilt by association claims about Factcheck.org, how about an actual, real example of a posting of theirs that is false and/or wildly misleading ?

    Where would you recommend one go for an unbiased check of the facts – Fox News? Rush Limbaugh? The Heritage Foundation? ..or perhaps the American Enterprise Institute?

  274. So now the truth is starting to come out about the background checks on Joe the Plumber…the woman behind the computer look ups…

    Helen Jones-Kelley: Obama supporter, Maximum dollar contributor

    The computer checks were far more extensive than originally reported and the basis for doing the checks is that he claimed he wanted to buy a business and since he was in the media he must have a lot of money and was hiding it from the state of Ohio.

    Seriously folks…this lady should be fired and possibly prosecuted. What’s worse is they even gave out the information so it could be reported.

  275. (342) Paul that is exactly the problem. There isn’t a place. There is no sense of fact checking going on anywhere.

    Our elections have become ideology battles of what is perceived to be right and wrong and literally has little to do with the realities of basic life.

    Your question absolutely nailed it on the head – thanks for bringing that core issue into laser focus. That is probably the most profound question in this entire thread. Kudos for sure.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if we knew somehow we could actually get the facts?

    At some point we will all need to be lawyers just so we can render suppositions on our intended positions and await verdict from ideological based judgment…lol

  276. (342) Obviously, API, since FoxNews clearly endorses them by putting half-truths and suspicions generated by the API. Berg might also be a good source for “real” information, since FoxNews also put his bogus claims on the air without ever having checked any of his facts.

  277. I think it is overly eager staffers trying to win

    Yup, and anyway this type of campaign eagerness hardly rises to the Ashley Todd standard of serious lies and crimes.

    Hey, what happened to the Todd story? If that had been true it would still have had no campaign relevance, yet it would have played on FOX literally thousands of times before the election.

    Ed Rollins – one of the smartest campaign managers of this generation – noted today that it’s pretty much all over, partly because McCain’s get out the vote is so weak compared to Obama’s, which he thought was the best effort in the Democrat history.

  278. Fox decided to pre-empt its World Series pre-game show for the Obama spot and will start its baseball coverage after the commercial’s 8:30 p.m. conclusion.

    Of course I bet the cool million paycheck played a role in this?

    It was CNN that turned down the Obama show, leaving the 1 million on the table.

  279. (348) Joe…lol running the campaign donation site hardly compares to a psycho volunteer for a local office…in that level of test we should talk about the Che Guevara posters all over Obama’s locations…lol

  280. (349) Maybe CNN wanted more than 1 million.

    Could it be that FOX is trying to actually be fair and balanced? or maybe FOX is now in the tank for Obama as well…lol

    (348) Get out the fraudulent vote you mean.

    Take a queue directly from Obama’s national deputy campaign manager today…they are worried about the race and that all the battleground states are in play…but no worries…

  281. Huffington Post writer stabber her lover over 220 times with screwdriver and then a day later shot herself in the head.

    Ariana must be pretty tough on the staff over there.

  282. (332) So back to that question…

    Do you think McCain is a socialist?
    Do you think McCain agrees with Palestine?
    Do you think McCain is going to raise taxes on everyone?
    Do you think McCain is a racist?

  283. (317) JCH you are so full of the stuff you shovel…are your eyes brown?

    So here you go…in Obama’s own ad released this week.

    Stop it at 34 seconds into the ad and tell me what is says and what he says…

    The Obama Plan

    Families making less than $200,000 get tax cut

    Geesh…you don’t even know the facts about your chosen one.

    Obama has lowered the amount and Biden does again by lowering the amount again just yesterday.

    There you go…now you can correct your position on this.

  284. (352) That is LOW !!! – scummy, dirty, ugly partisan LOW. You try to cast aspersions on a liberal media outlet you disdain by trying to connect its editor to a horrific and tragic murder ?!? Low, beneath contemptible…the lady in question had hardly started working at Huffington when she murdered her ex… Stuff like that really makes me question your motivations and ethics. Do you have any standards at all ???

  285. (358)…lol…are you serious? The lady was obviously mentally deranged Paul…ease up. It was made in jest.

    Yet you brush off the validated and verified plans that Ayers had to terminate 25 million citizens in the US when they won their war during the 60’s and people would not accept their reeducation. That somehow gets a pass.

    And now we know for a fact that the electronic voting machines in Decatur County are actually registering votes for Obama when people select McCain…but hey there is no real fraud going on here.

  286. Glenn! You are missing the Obama show on all the TV sets. It’s really good. 😀

    So Glenn, if you learned beyond any shadow of doubt that Obama
    was sincere and honest and had only the connections he has claimed wrt questionable people …. Would you vote for him?

  287. The flat-out truth:

    “Election lawyer Brett Kappel said the FEC has never grappled with the question of cash cards. “The whole system is set up for them to accept the payment, then determine whether it is legal or not. And if it’s not, send it back. That’s what the statute requires,” he said. …”

  288. (360) No because we cannot afford an Obama/Pelosi/Reid blank checkbook.

    If he were genuine and there was a good fiscal conservative in the speakers position his presidency could be really effective.

  289. Despite the talking points suggesting he’s a manchurian candidate, I don’t think Obama critics fear he is NOT who he says he is. They fear he is the sincere and honest liberal Democrat he says he is. It’s ok to worry about that but it should be addressed in those terms rather than the character attacks that are bogus or total exaggerations of reasonable activity.

  290. (361) Cash cards are one part. There is a verification system for cash cards btw…you just have to decide to implement it.

    The problem that we are discussing more importantly on AVS is that they don’t do it for ANY credit card.

    That is the truth.

    And if you don’t have the address you can credit back a charge. That is the whole point of AVS…address verification on the way in and address verification on that way back if necessary.

    Otherwise the reverse fraud would be rampant.

  291. I’m a lot more concerned about how Pelosi will govern than Obama. In fact look for some big conflicts as Obama’s crackerjack economic advisors spar with some of the ideological approaches congress may attempt. Obama’s team will win most of those debates because he’ll be able to use his oratory to keep on on track.

    I think the most important reason to support Obama is his approach to solving the economic crisis. He’s got several of the best people in the world working with him, including market makers like Buffett, Gates, and Rubin. Your ability to get jobs done is directly proportional to the influence of your team. McCain has Joe the Plumber, Obama has Warren Buffett. Do …. the …. math.

  292. (363) Joe it really depends on what you mean he is a sincere and honest liberal…how can you decide that? He has deliberately tried to manipulate the facts on so many occasions that he already has proven he isn’t sincere.

    He was just some guy in my neighborhood…

    No wait…his kids go to school where my kids go

    No wait…I know him from a board we were on but we didn’t spend time with him

    No wait…Yes we were friends but I didn’t know he was a terrorist.

    No wait…I thought he was rehabilitated…

    So how can you even say Obama is sincere? Let me guess he is only sincere on the issues he deems important? Was he sincere when tells main street he support gay unions or was he sincere when he told people in San Fran that he supports gay marriage.

    Was he sincere when he said those people in PA hold their guns tight along with their bibles…

    Joe there is no way you can Obama is sincere.

    Does he believe in the change he wants to bring to America? Absolutely…is he being honest about all those changes?…no!

    Tax cut for all those making under 250k…no wait 200k…no wait Biden jumps in…150k.

    The list on his ever changing position is absurd. Plus don’t forget the Saul Alinsky method dictates it is ok to deceive to achieve the end result.

    So I have a very hard time accepting that Obama is sincere and honest.


  293. (365) Joe you know McCain has good people there…unless of course you don’t think HP or eBay are significant companies. That wasn’t a fair comparison to put Joe the Plumber there…

    You also forgot to mention Soros…personally I don’t think that man should be anywhere near our economy.

    And now Rasmussen polls say McCain has the advantage over Obama on who will best handle the economy and taxes.

    FACT: Obama’s tax plan is going to hurt our economy in a very big way…and I know Joe deep in your fiscally conservative heart you know this to be true.

    Obama may have some grandiose plans but quite frankly this country is broke and there is no way to pay for them. So do you elect a leader that does not have experience, no way to implement what he wants to do…or do we have to say…damn this time we need the experience guy and tee up Obama when things get a little better.

  294. Case in point…

    Jack WELCH, former CEO of GE said on Kudlow that “I don’t know how any businessman could (come out or vote?) for Obama.”

    Welch explained that Rhode Island has an 8% unemployment rate, and that’s 40% higher than the 6% in the rest of country. Welch said that McCAin needs to hit that, because the reason for that 8% in R.I. is directly from the higher taxes in that state, which is highest taxed businesses in U. S.

    Jack Welch also condemned the Obama support for “no secret votes on Unions”, which Welch said should never happen.

    It is a fact…raise corporate taxes and jobs will be lost – has happened 100% of the time in our country.

  295. Joe what I can’t reconcile is when I read statements like from Peter Nicholas, yesterday from the LA Times:

    First Clinton, then John McCain made the argument that Obama is someone we don’t really know. Obama’s supporters counter that we have his record in the U.S. and Illinois senates, two memoirs that reveal his inner thinking and a vast trove of public speaking. Ironically, those of us who were sent out to take his measure in person can’t offer much help in answering who he is, or if he is ready. The barriers set in place between us and him were just too great.

    The guys there directly covering Obama day in and day out don’t even know who Obama is. This is a serious concern.


  296. If Welch was on McCain’s team I’d be more impressed with it and I do like Meg Whitman who is on his team… but Glenn I don’t dispute that Obama’s policies are likely to be reckless with spending. So would McCain’s. I think Obama is more like ly to see the error of his ways. Clinton’s policies were fairly innovative and liberal – luckily for him prosperity ws fueled by the dot com boom, but people like Rubin are so far beyond people like Phil “Mr. Deregulate Derivatives” Gramm it’s not funny. Rubin to Gramm really is like comparing an economic genius to Joe the Plumber. And yes, Joe the Plumber is totally in play. If you haven’t heard he’s all over the news, has a publicist, and may run for office. He’s after a record contract too. I don’t begrudge him his 15 minutes of fame by any means, but when he makes totally uninformed oddball statements…I’m glad the media is following up. Kudos to Shep Smith at FOX who pointed out the absurdity of fearing for Israel’s defense under Obama.

  297. Glenn – Obama’s ties to Khalidi appear to be a few dinners and parties, where McCain gave the dude half a million. I doubt he’s the nefarious evil guy Palin makes him out to be but if he is I know we can count on you to .. ummmm.. vote Nader?

    McCain Funded Work Of Palestinian His Campaign Hopes To Tie To Obama

    During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.

    A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi’s Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank. (See grant number 5180, “West Bank: CPRS” on page 14 of this PDF.)

    The relationship extends back as far as 1993, when John McCain joined IRI as chairman in January. Foreign Affairs noted in September of that year that IRI had helped fund several extensive studies in Palestine run by Khalidi’s group, including over 30 public opinion polls and a study of “sociopolitical attitudes.”

  298. Nicholas says Obama is boring and lacks spontaneity. I’m not worried about that at all.

    There is no “socialist manchurian terror lover” risk from Obama as Palin and McCain have suggested. However it is reasonable to worry that our pendulum will now swing from Wall Street to the street corner and we’ll wind up hurting the big economy by more than Obama helps the middle class with tax cuts. But I’m in favor of this experiment. Until the current meltdown and bailout I was more confident in my view that capitalism is self-regulating to the extent we don’t need big Govt intervention. All the Ayn Randsters are now telling us “we need intervention”. So, let’s see how that works for a change. Clearly it’ll be hard to do much worse than the failed policies of the past 8 years.

  299. The tax cuts will be spent primarily at American business. Wall Street and Main Street are not going to miss out on a penny.

    All Wall Street did with their largess was buy derivatives and swaps, etc.

    How did that help the country?

  300. (372) Yeah I am sure they thought that same thing about the New Deal…clearly it’ll be hard to do much worse than the failed policies of the past 8 years….

  301. AP…

    WASHINGTON — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama was less than upfront in his half-hour commercial Wednesday night about the costs of his programs and the crushing budget pressures he would face in office.

    Obama’s assertion that “I’ve offered spending cuts above and beyond” the expense of his promises is accepted only by his partisans. His vow to save money by “eliminating programs that don’t work” masks his failure throughout the campaign to specify what those programs are — beyond the withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

    A sampling of what voters heard in the ad, and what he didn’t tell them:

    THE SPIN: “That’s why my health care plan includes improving information technology, requires coverage for preventive care and pre-existing conditions and lowers health care costs for the typical family by $2,500 a year.”

    THE FACTS: His plan does not lower premiums by $2,500, or any set amount. Obama hopes that by spending $50 billion over five years on electronic medical records and by improving access to proven disease management programs, among other steps, consumers will end up saving money. He uses an optimistic analysis to suggest cost reductions in national health care spending could amount to the equivalent of $2,500 for a family of four. Many economists are skeptical those savings can be achieved, but even if they are, it’s not a certainty that every dollar would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower premiums.

    THE SPIN: “I also believe every American has a right to affordable health care.”

    THE FACTS: That belief should not be confused with a guarantee of health coverage for all. He makes no such promise. Obama hinted as much in the ad when he said about the problem of the uninsured: “I want to start doing something about it.” He would mandate coverage for children but not adults. His program is aimed at making insurance more affordable by offering the choice of government-subsidized coverage similar to that in a plan for federal employees and other steps, including requiring larger employers to share costs of insuring workers.

    THE SPIN: “I’ve offered spending cuts above and beyond their cost.”

    THE FACTS: Independent analysts say both Obama and Republican John McCain would deepen the deficit. The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Obama’s policy proposals would add a net $428 billion to the deficit over four years — and that analysis accepts the savings he claims from spending cuts. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, whose other findings have been quoted approvingly by the Obama campaign, says: “Both John McCain and Barack Obama have proposed tax plans that would substantially increase the national debt over the next 10 years.” The analysis goes on to say: “Neither candidate’s plan would significantly increase economic growth unless offset by spending cuts or tax increases that the campaigns have not specified.”

    THE SPIN: “Here’s what I’ll do. Cut taxes for every working family making less than $200,000 a year. Give businesses a tax credit for every new employee that they hire right here in the U.S. over the next two years and eliminate tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. Help homeowners who are making a good faith effort to pay their mortgages, by freezing foreclosures for 90 days. And just like after 9-11, we’ll provide low-cost loans to help small businesses pay their workers and keep their doors open. ”

    THE FACTS: His proposals — the tax cuts, the low-cost loans, the $15 billion a year he promises for alternative energy, and more — cost money, and the country could be facing a record $1 trillion deficit next year. Indeed, Obama recently acknowledged — although not in his commercial — that: “The next president will have to scale back his agenda and some of his proposals.”

    Yeah but he is sincere and honest…oh please…

  302. personal attacks on a political race are always part of the game. while that is the case in the obama vs mccain challenge, I’d still prefer obama. even if I don’t reside in the U.S. and don’t pretty much care whoever wins. I believe that it is time for a change. Attack Obama as those other parties will but Obama will win this one.

  303. McCain and Khalidi…

    A 1998 tax filing published by the Huffington Post found the McCain-led IRI group granted $448,873 to the CPRS. Also in 1993, seven months after McCain became IRI’s chairman, his group funded several extensive CPRS studies, including over 30 public opinion polls and a study of “sociopolitical attitudes.”

    The CPRS, which bills itself as an independent Palestinian think tank, was founded in 1993 by seven Palestinian activists, including Khalidi and Khalil Shakaki, who for a time was a visiting professor at several U.S. universities. Khalidi several years later terminated his involvement with the organization while Shakaki became CPRS chairman.

    The group has conducted scores of polls that drew the ire of the Palestinian leadership, including in 1993 when it was tasked by McCain’s group. One 1993 poll showed most Palestinians were not fully confident in the fairness of elections that then-PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat had pledged to hold.

    Another 1993 survey found most Palestinians wanted independent Arafat opposition groups to have more ability to freely express themselves. A number of other polls showed the Palestinians were unhappy with their leaders.

    A particularly dramatic recent poll that contradicted years of Palestinian claims showed the vast majority of Arabs living in so-called refugee camps would accept compensation instead of “returning” to Israel.

    This issue is particularly visceral since the Khalidi organization funded by Obama’s nonprofit took the opposition position.

    While Obama served on the Woods Fund with Ayers, the group in 2001 provided a $40,000 grant to the Arab American Action Network, or AAAN, for which Khalidi’s wife, Mona, serves as president. The Fund provided a second grant to the AAAN for $35,000 in 2002.

    The AAAN, headquartered in the heart of Chicago’s Palestinian immigrant community, describes itself as working to “empower Chicago-area Arab immigrants and Arab Americans through the combined strategies of community organizing, advocacy, education and social services, leadership development, and forging productive relationships with other communities.”

  304. In Illinois two years ago when the large nuclear utility Commonwealth Edison (ComEd) wanted Illinois state lawmakers to back a large rate hike two years ago, it took a creative lobbying approach. Its parent company, Exelon Corporation, contracted with ASK Public Strategies, a consulting firm, to a build a fake “front company” that appeared to be devoted to the public interest called Consumers Organized for Reliable Electricity (CORE). Then the “front company” (CORE) ran TV ads warning of a “California-style energy crisis” if the rate increase wasn’t approved. The CORE ads, however, failed to disclose in the commercials that CORE, the supposed citizen’s action group, was actually being funded by the ComEd utility itself.

    When the truth about CORE and ComEd came out, Illinois Leutenent Governor Pat Quinn was quoted as saying, “It’s corporate money trying to hoodwink the public.”

    What is of interest today about this story is the senior partner of the ASK Public Strategies consulting (lobbying) firm is David Axelrod, yes the same David Axelrod who is now chief strategist for Barack Obama’s Presidential Campaign. (Ask Public strategies is located in the same office as Axelrod’s political firm.)

    Ah, but the story gets better. A proposal ASK developed last year proposed a “political campaign style approach” to help Illinois hospitals block a state proposal that would have forced them to provide more medical care to the indigent. One part of this plan was to create a “grassroots” group of medical experts “capable of contacting policymakers to advocate for our position,” according to a copy of the proposal.

    As Ed Morrissey reported (2008), “Obama has run on health-care issues to create universal health-insurance coverage to do exactly the opposite of what ASK proposed. Axelrod’s firm wanted to set up another phony front group to oppose that same policy, attempting to fake the public into thinking that the “grassroots” effort had nothing to do with the hospitals themselves. Axelrod’s firm had so much success with their front group for the energy company that they planned to duplicate the same dishonest structure in health care — and in both cases, on behalf of opponents of Obama’s professed policies today.”

    Ah, but the story gets better still. Exelon Corp. executives have pumped almost a quarter-million dollars into Obama’s Presidential campaign. The state of Illinois and the state of New York both consider ASK to be a lobbying firm. So, is Obama serious in his campaign promises, or as Ed Morrisey (2008) put it, “Is Obama’s Presidential Campaign merely another Axelrod public-relations Trojan Horse?”

    Ah, but the story gets even better again.

    Who became president of ComEd in 1964, served as chairman and CEO from 1973 to 1980, was the architect of ComEd’s nuclear power program in the 1960s and 1970s, and continued to exert his influence over the large utility until his death in 2007 (Napolitano, 2007)?

    Who served on the boards of Sears, G.D. Searle, Chicago Pacific Corp., Zenith Corp., Northwest Industries, General Dynamics Corp. of St. Louis, First National Bank of Chicago, the Chicago Cubs and the Tribune (newspaper) Co. (Napolitano, 2007)?

    Who was Chairman of the Board for the Chicago Urban League, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, the Chicago Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Erikson Institute, Bank Street College of Education in New York, Community Renewal Society, the Chicago Community Trust, and Northwestern University Board of Trustees (Napolitano, 2007)?

    Who was described by his heirs as an “Agent of Change” and someone who ‘believed in change’ (Napolitano, 2007)?

    This very powerful individual who was very well known in Chicago’s sociopolitical cirles for the last three quarters of a century was none other than Thomas G. Ayers, Sr., father of radical unrepentent domestic terrorist, Bill Ayers, just a guy Barack Obama says he “knows from his neighborhood”.

    Morrissey, Ed. (2008). “Obama’s lobbyist problem: David Axelrod.” Retrieved on October 29 from hotair.com/archives/2008/05/25/obamas-lobbyist-problem-david-axelrod/.

    Napolitano, Jo. (2007). “Utility exec. led civic, racial initiatives.” retrieved on October 29, 2008 from http://kimallen.sheepdogdesign.net/cinnamon/2007/06/thomas-g-ayers-1915-2007.html.

  305. The “socialist” accusations against BO are of some interest (and a somewhat desperate move by McCaint). While Obama’s record does reveal some socialist hints, he’s not a socialist in the european sense, really, or even FDR.

    Hillary’s policies were arguably more authentically FDR/New Deal like; Obama’s closer to like an urban DINO pro-business politician like DiDi Feinstein (and Pelosia, really) than HRC, or say Harry Reid. I actually support Reid’s economic ideas, and energy policies, with some reservations: Harry Reid’s about as close to Harry Truman as any dem around.

    Barack’s no Reid, or Truman; as with some other independent/progressive/libertarian (the non-whacked ones) bloggers, I contend BO’s essentially an opportunist, and sort of a Keynesian entrepreneur, tho’ also willing to build up the LBJ style-welfare state, and pro-unionist (not necessarily a “liberal” policy).

    Obama backed the Paulson/Bush bailout, he’s cozy with coal and oil companies, and a pal of religious zealots, both xtian and muslim. A hustler, really, and that’s why many who were leaning towards HRC refuse the BO -Biden ticket (and the McCaint ticket).

  306. Voter registration fraud appears to be on both sides (big surprise):

    “Young Political Majors LLC, or YPM, is a company registered by Mark Jacoby at a Town ‘N Country residence.
    Jacoby appeared this summer at the election office in Gainesville with a box of about 1,200 voter registration cards. Of those, about 510 voters had switched to the GOP.

    Elections Supervisor Beverly Hill spoke with Jacoby and grew suspicious. She randomly called the Republicans to verify they wanted to switch. All of them said, “Absolutely not,” Hill said. “They didn’t even know they had signed a registration form,” Hill said.

    Here’s how YPM does it: their paid signature gatherers ask registered Democratic voters to sign a claimed legitimate petition (in this case a petition to “stop sexual predators from getting out of jail”). Then, depending on the circumstances, they tell the voter that the petition is not legal unless they re-register as a Republican, or they have the voter sign in two places – one of which is the bottom of a Republican voter registration card.

    It is simply unacceptable for this type of activity to go on here in California.

    “This insidious and fraudulent practice is called ‘slamming,’ and Insurance Commissioner Poizner must put an immediate stop to funding this conspiracy to commit fraud,” said Senator Art Torres (Ret.), Chairman of the California Democratic Party (see letter below letter).

    The San Bernardino County Registrar of Voters, Kari Verjil, has allowed the slamming to continue for weeks. The California Democratic Party is calling on the San Bernardino County District Attorney’s office, the Secretary of State and the State Attorney General’s office to investigate and prosecute those who are knowingly committing fraud.

    The same situation is known to have occurred in Riverside County. This past August the Registrar of Voters, Barbara Dunmore, referred that fraud to the Riverside County District Attorney.

    American voters should not be treated this way.”


  307. McCain is also apparently threatening “the very fabric of America”:

    John McCain paid $175,000 of campaign money to a Republican operative accused of massive voter registration fraud in several states, it has emerged.

    As the McCain camp attempts to tie Barack Obama to claims of registration irregularities by the activist group ACORN, campaign finance records detailing the payment to the firm of Nathan Sproul, investigated several times for fraud, threatens to derail that argument.

    The documents show that a joint committee of the McCain-Palin campaign, the Republican National Committee and the California Republican Party, made the payment to Lincoln Strategy, of which Mr Sproul is the managing partner, for the purposes of “voter registration”.

    Mr Sproul has been investigated on numerous occasions for preventing Democrats from voting, destroying registration forms and leading efforts to get Ralph Nader on ballots to leach the Democratic vote.

    In October last year, the House Judiciary Committee wrote to the Attorney General requesting answers regarding a number of allegations against Mr Sproul’s firm, then known as Sproul and Associates. It referred to evidence that ahead of the 2004 national elections, the firm trained staff only to register Republican voters and destroyed any other registration cards, citing affidavits from former staff members and investigations by television news programmes.

    One former worker testified that “fooling people was key to the job” and that “canvassers were told to act as if they were non-partisan, to hide that they were working for the RNC, especially if approached by the media,” according to the committee’s letter. It also cited reports from public libraries across the country that the firm had asked to set up voter registration tables claiming it was working on behalf of the non-partisan group America Votes, though in fact no such link existed.

    Such activities “clearly suppress votes and violate the law”, wrote John Conyers, the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. The letter suggested that the Judiciary Department had failed to take sufficient action on the allegations because of the politicisation of the department under the then-attorney general, John Ashcroft.

    The career of Mr Sproul, a former leader of the Arizona Republican Party, is littered with accusations of foul play. In Minnesota in 2004, his firm was accused of sacking workers who submitted Democratic registration forms, while other canvassers were allegedly paid bonuses for registering Bush voters. There were similar charges in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Oregon and Nevada.

    That year, Mr Sproul’s firm was paid $8,359,161 by the Republican Party, according to a 2005 article in the Baltimore Chronicle, which claimed that this was far more than what had been reported to the Federal Elections Commission.

    Mr McCain and his running mate Sarah Palin have been linking allegations of registration fraud by ACORN, the community group, to the Obama campaign.

    ACORN has been accused of registering non-existent voters during its nationwide drive, with reports of cartoon characters such as Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse being signed up.

    The organisation insisted that these are isolated incidents carried out by a handful of workers who have since been dismissed.

    However, the Republican nominee insists that the group is involved in fraudulent activities, noting that Mr Obama, before leaving the legal profession to enter politics, was once part of a team which defended the organisation. At last week’s debate, he said that ACORN was “perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history”, a claim which the Obama campaign says represents political smear.

    The revelation of Mr Sproul’s involvement with the McCain campaign – he has also donated $30,000 to the ticket and received at least another $37,000 directly from the RNC – could undermine his case.

    “It should certainly take away from McCain’s argument,” Bob Grossfeld, an Arizona political consultant who has watched Mr Sproul’s career closely, told the Huffington Post. “Without knowing anything of what is going on with ACORN, there is a clear history with Mr Sproul either going over the line or sure as hell kicking dirt on it, and doing it for profit and usually fairly substantive profit.”

    In May this year, both ACORN and Mr Sproul were discussed at a hearing of the House subcommittee on commercial and administrative law. One Republican member, Congressman Chris Cannon, concluded: “The difference between ACORN and Sproul is that ACORN doesn’t throw away or change registration documents after they have been filled out.”http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4992730.ece

  308. (382) MK…we have always contended it is on both sides. But nothing out there compares to the level of fraud committed by ACORN. Unfortunately Obama paid $832k to ACORN during this campaign along with all his other long-term connections with ACORN it looks bad on Obama.

    ACORN has committed fraud in the 100’s of thousands…simply astounding this organization is even allowed to exist.

    Did you notice that Obama called for a special investigation from the judicial department in regard to ACORN? It wasn’t about ACORN’s fraud it was about ACORN trying to be suppressed…LOL

    Obama is a paid for politician and we will have no chance of any accountability in DC if he is elected…

  309. And yet no one is screaming about the extensive illegal searches done in Ohio by a Democratic operative misusing her position within Ohio government to get information and directly share it with the Obama campaign…

    That is our future…ask a tough question and have your life turned upside down because Obama wasn’t in front of a teleprompter and he actually spoke the truth?

  310. (385) MK there have been 10 years of convictions on ACORN. Over 15 states are now investigating ACORN and most have stated publicly that there was definite voter registration fraud and there are definite instances of illegal ballots.

    However there is NOT ONE CONVICTION for the example you stated.

    Let me give you a very clear example of something that happened at my house yesterday. Now you have to understand that we live in a gated area on the water and most of our driveways are gated, etc. I have a McCain sign down near the road in the far corner of the property. Two guys yesterday jumped our fence and came to our front door yesterday and offered to give us an absentee ballot for our McCain vote…I told them I wasn’t voting for McCain, they looked at me and then asked about the McCain sign…I said what sign? With that they turned around and left.

    Once back on the street they pulled the sign and threw it, I watched them go down the street and they only went to the homes with McCain signs. I called the LO and reported it.

    Can you imagine the audacity? Today it is now news and people are being warned in our county and the next.

    Talk about suppressing someone’s vote.

  311. Mr Sproul has been investigated on numerous occasions for preventing Democrats from voting, destroying registration forms and leading efforts to get Ralph Nader on ballots to leach the Democratic vote.

    I’ve seen this accusation before, usually by Democratic hysteria cases who can’t fathom why anyone would vote 3rd party (that said, I am not that enamored with Nader, tho’ his energy policies are not bad. Barr’s the guy for those concerned about Freedom, as it was formerly known. Or just don’t vote).

  312. And so my assumption here was that those kids were…McCain supporters…who were disgruntled because you weren’t voting McCain. So I guess I don’t understand your point.

  313. (390)…LOL…they were arrested MK…they were Obama supporters working for the campaign. You truly only have glasses that let you see out the left side of things…

  314. MK,JCH,Paul,Joe…have you watched the market today?

    We had a nice rally beginning after the overseas markets rejoiced about the rate cut.

    As soon as Obama started talking about taxing us back to propriety today…the markets has dropped 200 points and continuing down…

  315. “Today’s testimony by a former employee of an ACORN affiliate proves Barack Obama is guilty of lying to the American people about his relationship with ACORN.

    At the last presidential debate, in front of sixty million people, Barack Obama said his campaign was not involved’ with ACORN. We now know that Barack Obama’s campaign was working hand-in-glove with an organization reportedly under investigation by the F.B.I. and in more than a dozen states.

    In addition to funneling $832,000 to ACORN for get-out-the-vote efforts, the Obama campaign and ACORN have been sharing donor lists, encouraging maxed-out Obama donors to contribute to this unethical organization.”

  316. 389: Dems have worked to keep Barr, Nader, Ron Paul (before he turned GOP at least) and other 3rd party candidates off the ballots, and out of debates–that’s what I meant. GOPer probably do it as well.

    The Democrats are every bit the political Machine that the GOP is–in fact more bureaucratic, efficient, and ruthless: or rather it’s one mad mega-Machine, the Demopublican party.

  317. “The career of Mr Sproul, a former leader of the Arizona Republican Party, is littered with accusations of foul play. In Minnesota in 2004, his firm was accused of sacking workers who submitted Democratic registration forms, while other canvassers were allegedly paid bonuses for registering Bush voters. There were similar charges in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Oregon and Nevada.

    That year, Mr Sproul’s firm was paid $8,359,161 by the Republican Party, according to a 2005 article in the Baltimore Chronicle, which claimed that this was far more than what had been reported to the Federal Elections Commission.”

    I’m not seeing a lot of _factual_ difference here between Sproul and co. and ACORN. Other than Sproul being the head of the Arizona RNC, which kind of links him closely with McCain.

    But damn that liberal media for not making this a big deal. Those liberal commies.

  318. MK doesn’t it bother you that the state bills that Obama sponsored in Illinois have been blocked for release?

    Why would a senator work to block the legislation that he sponsored?

  319. OK OK enough of the pot shots. 🙂

    Horatiox, you always surprise me. There is a bunch of reasonable stuff in your comments this morning. But I haven’t had my second Latte yet, so I’m not holding my breath. 🙂 Hats off to ya though. I’ll try to keep up with the conceptual stuff. 🙂

  320. (398) Thanks for insinuating that I am lying. That’s nice. I know the LEO involved…you can be such a twit.

    The only person that has been proven lying here is Obama…over and over again.

  321. (397) Big difference when you have ACORN people convicted and sitting in jail…LOL.

    But wait those arrests must have been unjust.

  322. Glenn, with all due respect, I am not insinuating that you are lying. I was suggesting that maybe you made the wrong assumption through your right-angled glasses.

    I apologize for the misunderstanding. I did not mean to suggest you were lying. Just having a little fun, knowing I could very easily be full of sh*t. 🙂

    Game on. 🙂

  323. Obama and the theater of the absurd…

    Even if you vote for Obama, you’re still probably a racist, according to Harvard law professor Charles Ogletree, in his remarks at a recent panel discussion at my alma mater.

    Ogletree, Obama’s top advisor on race issues, explains that since Obama is “biracial,” his election won’t prove that racism has receded. White America won’t vote for blacks, Ogletree argues, and Obama’s election is possible only because he’s partly white.

    The ABA Journal predicts that Ogletree, who has long advocated race-based reparations, will be the Assistant Attorney General in charge of the Civil Rights Division during the Obama administration.

    Of course we can’t discuss the controversies surrounding Ogletree with his associations to Al Sharpton or his history of plagiarism…

    There is a complete cast of left loons coming along with Obama…

  324. I was also under the impression that the “vote nader” part of the Y2k Republican strategy was well documented. It’s arguably very unethical but brilliant approach because it’s not fraud or suppression yet you are effectively gaining support.

    Glenn although I think ACORN has a lot of explainin’ to do and some have jail time to serve, where are you getting the “hundreds of thousands” number and are you always talking about registration fraud here, which is pretty minor compared to vote fraud. Almost all the ACORN shenanigans appear to me to be low level pay per registration scams where the extra forms are 1) done for money and 2) could not be used to vote.

    Are there ACORN cases where fake registrantions were created so illegal votes could be cast? This is the serious concern and although I assume that number is not zero I also can’t imagine it is over a few hundred isolated cases. The system for all it’s flaws is very good at rejecting votes. In fact disallowing votes is the big problem in our Democracy, and in big elections it completely swamps the vote fraud issue. Vote fraud numbers are so small as to be inconsequential in all but a tiny number of elections. Even if there is an elaborate ACORN vote fraud conspiracy, which seems extremely unlikely, it has effectively no chance of changing outcomes. Could you explain how that would work? Clearly “Mickey Mouse” is not going to vote fraudulently, so are you seriously suggesting there’s a network of secret voters who have double registered using different names via fraud and are then going to go to two precincts with fake IDs? All that for what – a few dollars? That story would be *huge* and FOX would pay a fortune to anybody – including the fake voters – for the story so they could stop running the garbage stories about how a Mickey Mouse registration indicates a massive voter conspiracy for Obama.

    Ergo….there is no “anti Obama” story here, just some two bit voter registration fraud.

    An exception is from days when the system was much less transparent was Illinois’ Kennedy > Nixon where many believe Daley adjusted the Chicago totals to give Kennedy the electoral win, though even if Nixon got those votes the final outcome would still have favored Kennedy due to the Texas win which was by a much greater margin.

  325. (405) Thanks for clarifying that up MK. I was told it would be hitting the local papers today. They were going to issue a county wide warning about the scam. It seems some of the get the vote out crowd are you using this opportunity to canvas areas and look for identity theft opportunities.

    Our area is about 30:1 McCain to Obama signs so they are definitely roaming around. I just find it amazing that someone thinks they can just cross our gates and walk right up to our front doors. That isn’t a very smart idea down here. I was also told they were from out of state.

  326. Mr. Glenn, let’s grant Team Obama’s shady and corrupt. So is Team McCaint. That’s the problem: the GOP went with an old hawk who has defended Bush consistently. Add the S n L crisis, Keating, other issue add to the problem.

    So, in other words, two corrupt politicians (and political parties), with their Veeps (and I have to give nod to Biden on Veep, slightly) are going at it. I suspect Barack’s killed fewer civilians than McCaint has however: Commander McCain had flown over 20 bombing runs (with napalm) ‘fore he was shot down–once inside Hanoi Hilton he even ratted out a few secrets to Viet Cong (there’s a few vets online who won’t support McCain because of that). And McCain has little appeal to anyone under 30 (if not 40). The GOP’d probably been better off with another clown: MittBot, Hucklebee or even Ghouliani, who would have picked up the mafia vote… either way, neither side worth a vote.

  327. (407) Joe according to the public statements from the districts and FBI…they are stating that between 30-40% of the ACORN voter registrations are most definitely fraudulent. ACORN claims they have registered over 1.3 million. Do the math…

    Looking back at past ACORN “aggressions” 🙂 (that was a good one) the number 40% seems low actually. In some districts in the past they have had 95% fraudulent registrations.

    The bottom line is this: If you run an organization for 10 years and 10 years you have fraud convictions and yet you can’t solve the problem…that is a problem at the very top of the organization. Think about it…any company in our country that had this kind of track record would have been shut down.

    Why are the standards applied to the money makers in this country to high for these political organization?

    The other major problem with ACORN is they claim non-partisan status and because of that status they receive 10’s of millions of dollars of our money. They are clearly partisan and therefore this is a fraud as well.

  328. (407) Joe don’t forget the practices of ACORN and their direct impact on the housing scandal. They were a major player in forcing banks to give bad loans.

    The fact that ACORN is so protected by people like Dodd and Frank make them highly suspect in a bunch of other areas.

    Don’t you agree that Dodd and Frank have to be horribly corrupt at this point? These guys are just bad for our country.

  329. In many ways Barr’s views probably line up more closely with mine on most of the issues, but I can’t get over what I remember as his almost total hypocrisy during the Clinton scandals where he was railing against Clinton for ethical lapses while as the same time engaging in similar activities. I’d have to admit though that I never reviewed all the information very carefully.

  330. (409) I completely agree. I have always said there is corruption throughout Washington. Just because I am a fiscal conservative doesn’t mean I can only be a Republican.

    The entire point of this election is not to put a liberal big spender in the Whitehouse with congress the way it currently is.

    It is a financial disaster for our country.

    We need to abolish the two party control and have people stand on their own platforms and drop the party ideology…it is just stupid when you look at the voting records of everyone.

    Joe Lieberman is a perfect example…he doesn’t fit in either party.

    I am just really sick of being talked down to and mislead by the political system in our country. I don’t think a person running for our top job should be allowed to keep anything from us – how else are we going to be able to make an intelligent decision?

    Some people are voting for Obama just because they read one of his books…which has a good chance of being ghost written by someone else…doesn’t that sound absurd that anyone would vote for someone because of a book and not their real work history?

  331. We might recall that Pops McCain stepped up on the Sturgis stage last summer, like between strippers, bikers, rock n rollers. He’s played the macho man for years (decades really), and now the McMaverick himself whining.

    You step up on Sturgis with a few thousand harley cowboys (and their ho’s) whooping it up, you’d better be able to walk the talk. He hasn’t: and those of us who know a bit about the REAL vietnam war (with like 60,000 dead USA, and approx. 3 million NV dead) should not feel too much love for McCaint (then Biden was a hawk on ‘nam as well, and BO himself said nice things about Kissinger, and even Nixon at one stage). Demopublicans…..

  332. (412) I feel the same way about Barr. My relatives that are in or were in the military are squarely for McCain and I always get some excitement going when I tell them I am voting for Barr. But given the choice of McCain, Obama and Barr I think Barr would do a lot of good for this country.

    I am a big believer of the constitution and state rights.

    I also don’t think the government should be a crutch for anyone.

  333. (407, 410) Other than just that video saying it over and over again, what did they do to “force” the bank to do anything? And as I recall in my personal experience on getting a bad loan (I was talked into it to get 2 mortgages to buy with zero down, which we very narrowly escaped the consequences later), that sort of thinking was everywhere. It wasn’t limited to folks like ACORN, it was everyone in the industry. My son-in-law for goodness sake went from being a parts delivery person for a construction company to a loan officer by applying for the job.

  334. (416) MK…ACORN was the pursuing force behind the thrift legislation in Illinois that completely broke this problem wide open. Until that decision the banks were pushing back on these bad loans…immediately after that decision the writing was on the walls…you either give these bad loans or your going to end up in litigation and you will lose.

    On top of that you have our government them pressuring banks even more to give out these bad loans.

    The flood gates opened wide after that ACORN driven decision in Illinois…so they are most definitely at the heart of this issue.

    It is clear that ACORN is part of the strong arm of the Democratic party sent out to do that nasty bits.

  335. Where are you getting those 40% fraud numbers Glenn? Those are isolated incidents, not the percent of the millions of registrations totals! Unless I’m totally out of touch ACORN has not submitted 400,000+ fraudulent registrations. Now THAT would be a story, though connecting it to Obama is questionable.

    FYI I agree ACORN favors Obama (they endorsed him) and is partisan, but I do not think there’s anything like the “Obama Ballot Stuffing” conspiracy FOX and Lou Dobbs keep alluding to indirectly between blood pressure checks to make sure their heads don’t explode. That’s the hyped up nonsense that now passes as “news”.

    The outrage against ACORN’s two-bit fraudulent stuff is understandable but where’s your concern about lying Robocalls, voter suppression, illegal purging, etc, etc? It’s very tiring to me how the outrage is so selective and partisan. CNN has done a pretty good job covering all these angles – essential to understand how our Democracy is only working well when the election…is not close. When an election is very close we’ll never know who really won because our systems our imprecise and over manipulated. FOX’s non-coverage of suppression and purging has been partisan and irresponsible.

  336. (419) Joe what would have happened to ACORN if they had no received the $10’s of millions of dollars from our government?

    Dodd first earmarked a return of $700 million to ACORN once the banks paid back the bail-out in the original response.

    They still are earmarked to receive over $100 million in the current bail-out.

    I think that is the point…my money has gone to an organization the misrepresented their status as a non-partisan organization. It is ridiculous and it been allowed to go on for over 10 years…so I ask where is the corruption?

    We have Democrats in congress that have knowingly funded a partisan organization under non-partisan designation.

    Isn’t that corruption?

    Stevens just went down for a few hundred grand…don’t you think we should nail anyone that is misusing 10’s of millions of taxpayer dollars?

  337. (420) Here is the story on the second lawsuit that came in 1998. They used CRA and accused the banks of discrimination based on race and national origin. After this decision the market opened wide up. Here is a link to CNN…figured I better find it there or you wouldn’t believe it…lol


    Another was a case that Obama was actually an attorney on it in 1994. It was against citibank which ultimately settled and changed their low income requirements.

    Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank Fair Housing/Lending/Insurance
    Docket / Court 94 C 4094 ( N.D. Ill. ) FH-IL-0011
    State/Territory Illinois

    Keep in mind these were class action lawsuits and that makes big difference on what happens in the courts.

    I need to find the thrift case…

  338. 420) This is also very important…

    ACORN was also a driving force behind a 1995 regulatory revision pushed through by the Clinton administration that greatly expanded the CRA and helped spawn the current financial crisis.

    Obama was the attorney representing ACORN in this effort.

  339. (425) Yes more so than McCain but a vote for McCain helps keep Obama out of office. The Obama/Pelosi/Reid trifecta really bothers me.

  340. (426) I think one of the shames of this election is that William Ayers and Dohrn were not fully exposed. I think it is a mistake to have people like that in positions of influence especially with young minds.

    It is a fact that the founder of ACORN (former SDS leader) and Ayers (weather underground leader and SDS) plotted to create reeducation camps in the southwest. Guess where ACORN is headquartered. What is most disturbing about their plans included the estimate that they were going to have to kill 25 million Americans. That is pretty serious stuff and just smacks of truly insane people.

    The old line…

    Kill a few people and your a murderer…kill a few million and your a conqueror…completely nuts!!!

    I don’t think people should discount the fact that he didn’t get to do it…it is more to the point what kind of person thinks down those lines…Pol pot, Hitler, etc…

    Ayers shouldn’t be on college campus…and if it weren’t for his powerful father he would have never gotten off on that technicality.

    Huge miscarriage of justice on this one.

  341. (428) So when you put this into context about Ayers and what is aspirations were. If I know about this, Obama must know about this. It is in black and white right in the FBI report about the weatherman.

    What kind of person can put that aside and be friends with this guy?

    It is like some of the wealthy British aristocrats that were friends with Hitler…

    or the wealthy Saudi’s who are friend with Bin Laden…

    Why on earth would you ever even want to share the air in the same room as Ayers?

    The only logical response to Ayers should be NO QUARTER whatsoever.

    This is where the rationalization by irrationality by Obama to include Ayers in his life over and over again really begs the question…wth is Obama doing?

  342. Sorry Glenn but I don’t buy the “Obama Speaks, Market Tanks” theory. The market has already brought an Obama presidency into the equation anyway – markets try to predict the future and he’s generally considered a shoe in at this point.

  343. (431)…lol Joe…that was supposed to be funny. Any intra-day trading movement speculation is just that…speculation. It was funny to watch the market as he spoke though.

  344. Glenn I’ll take the bait…again:

    Let’s assume you and Ayers wind up on the same board of directors of an educational foundation giving out grant money. He’s an older and established figure on the board, which has a good cross section of the community and distributes quality grants to poor schools.

    You feel strongly that you’ll be a voice for reason on this board so you don’t want to quit, but you find out Ayers’ history.

    You seem to think that Obama had an obligation to do what in this case? Auit? Citizens arrest Ayers? Cuff him to the chair and make a speech?

    What do YOU do next?

  345. (433) Joe why are you so willing to assume that Obama didn’t go to Chicago on purpose to connect up with this entire group of people?

  346. (433) Joe as far as what I would do…I would call for the person to be removed from the board and if they didn’t do it I would resign.

    There is a principle here and it shouldn’t be up for compromise.

    Bill Ayers is absolutely no different then the 1000’s of other terrorists and mass murderers in the history of the world. They absolutely cannot provide anything of redeeming value whatsoever.

    This is where I think tolerance gets us in trouble. I think we should be highly tolerant of people for many reasons but this is one spot that the world should stand completely united on. For this reason I don’t think we should ever talk with terrorists on any level. Until we stop any pandering to their side or causes they won’t stop.

  347. OK, it’s worse than I’ve been thinking but Glenn I don’t think you’ve been reporting the ACORN story correctly suggesting there are “hundreds of thousands” of fraudulent registrations. Possible, but unlikeley.

    This is the *worst* case of registration fraud I found. It will lead to zero illegal votes from these registrations, it has been caught by the system, and several will go to jail as they should.

    In Kansas City, where two Acorn workers have pleaded guilty to committing registration fraud last year while two others await trial, only 40% of the 35,000 registrations submitted by the group turned out to be bogus. But Melody Powell, chairman of the Kansas City Board of Elections, says Acorn’s claim that it brought the fraud in her city to light is “seriously misleading.” She says her staff first took the evidence to the FBI, and only then Acorn helped identify the perpetrators. “It’s a potential recipe for fraud,” she says, noting that “anyone can find a voter card mailed to a false apartment building address lying around a lobby and use it to vote.” Ms. Powell also worries that legitimate voters who were registered a second time by someone else under a false address might find it difficult to vote.

    I do condemn ACORN for obviously overlooking and perhaps supporting the bogus registrations and certainly support the FBI investigations. I also agree that traditionally Democrats try to overzeolously register people and push them to vote for the Democrat, where Republicans try to suppress the vote. Both are tactics that are unpatriotic and often illegal. I think we should start very aggressive campaigns *after each election* (to avoid using this as a campaign tool), to jail and fine groups or people who commit fraud or suppression.

    I think we should move to a national mail-in balloting procedure like we have here in Oregon which works very well, is cheaper, is easier to monitor, and eliminates many of the problems caused by voting machines / lines / etc. In fact I’ve never understood why other states don’t move to this system. I also like Glenn’s ATM voting idea – that would seem to be a very superior system to the current touchscreens which are not understood by those who supervise them, leading to the potential for fraud and abuse as noted in the documentary “hacking the vote”

  348. Glenn the reason I think the Obama / Ayers connections are overblown is that it is hard to spend so much time with somebody and have virtually no paper trail. There are *millions* of folks looking for stuff on Obama. I’m stunned you have found essentially nothing linking him to Ayers. A flyer or two with both names, board records stating something like “I’d like to thank….” That would NOT mean much but even THAT does not appear to exist! No letters, book dedications, etc.

    The Ayers secret socialist society idea appears to be as bogus as the Kenya birth story.

    Now, Obama is certainly more sympathetic to left wing ideology than most Americans (certainly more than me), and this is a legitimate voting issue. Ironically McCain has chosen to focus on the lie rather than the truth in a very weak attempt to point out that Obama leans left.

  349. Correction – I meant that there are NOT even any board records saying something like “I’d like to thank Bill for the Mao Jacket and autographing my original copy of Das Kapital”.

    It would be *incredible* to have sanitized the records to the extent the right things that has happened. Not just unprecedented, but impossible. The reason there is so little suggesting Obama is a manchurian commie candidate is that he is … very much what he says he is.

  350. Glenn you also discount statements by *hundreds* of folks who have worked with and talked to Obama at length. Zero people who know him (count them …. ZERO) say he’s a socialist. The only socialist claims come from people who have not met him.

    Uber capitalists like Buffett and Bob Rubin, Chair of Citibank, are hardly going to work with somebody they think it out to bring socialism. Lesser economic minds like McCain agree – he’s not a socialist.

    So, is McCain lying when he says Obama is a good guy, non-socialist, non racist citizen?

  351. (438) Joe different sources claim different things…what I think is funny that in the explanation from your source they said ONLY 40% of the registrations were bad…ROFL…only 40%.

    I got my numbers from a FBI public statement…I will dig it up and send it.

    We fully agree all of it needs to stop. I just wish people would stop defending ACORN…it makes no sense to defend them.

    As far as paper trail and Obama…ROFL…Joe the paper trail has been removed. Let me give you an excerpt from someone that has been investigating at Columbia.

    I should probably mention that though I looked at every page in the archive — some pages / articles had been removed from the “bound copies edition.” Someone had used a razor blade to go at the 82/83 book… maybe a total of 20 total pages were damaged or missing… I’m hesitant to make too big a deal of this though it was upsetting — these MAY have been the only extant copies of these texts. I checked the other archive books in a cursory way (they had records going back to 1906)and couldn’t find a book as badly damaged as the 82/83 book.

    What is interesting about what people are finding are the missing details from the “public” records at Columbia for the time period Obama was there. We know in his book he says he was active in BSO (Black Student Org) but the records and photos of their protests have all been altered or removed.

    The main protests at Columbia while Obama was there were the following:

    The South African Divesture Issue
    Selective Service/Draft Registration Resistance Movement
    Protests supporting Solialists/Communists in El Salvador

    They had several radical speakers during that time, Dick Gregory, Abby Hoffman (who urged students to repeat the destruction of 1968), Wells Todd and other fine citizens of the world.

    Professor Said arrived at that time. – Huge protests and uproar over Said at Columbia (even there?) but this is the exact same time Obama befriends him.

    What is strange about the paper trail no matter where you go where Obama was the trail has been altered…why is that?

    There is no doubt that Bill Ayers and the weatherman were part of these radical speeches and discussions around campus.

    The whole point about Obama is pretty straight-forward. He could have set the record straight on ALL of this yet he doesn’t.

    He has made a very deliberate attempt to keep everything under wraps – why does someone do that? Because of swiftboat? I think Obama has a lot of things he has done or been connected with that he doesn’t want mainstream America to know about.

    Joe we haven’t talked about his position on abortion which is utterly absurd and is clearly out of touch to what is reasonable in regard to human life. For the record I am supportive of woman’s rights in this issue but Barack and Michelle have very extreme positions on this topic and I would surprised if I ever would meet a person that agrees with their position.

  352. (441) Joe there are just as many people that say it is all way too controlled that they can’t really get the answers.

    Do you really think Obama is as innocent as they want you to believe?

    Do you think he has no culpability with any of these guys?

    Several hundred church visits and claims he didn’t know Wright was that whacky…he claims his religion is not traditional and is based on black liberation but he claims ignorance about the real premise and basis for Black Liberation Theology.

    Look at Rezko. You are going to sit there with a straight face typing that there wasn’t a fix in place on his property deal? The Rezko deal Obama knew ALL about and it is a corrupt dealing and IMPOSSIBLE for Obama not know it.

    Think about Chicago politics…can you name one honest politician in the entire history of Chicago politics?

    The original inspiration for Dawn of the Dead was Chicago because the original movie was a documentary about the people going to vote…LOL (that was another good one – you might want to write that one down).

  353. That was not really “meeting” him.

    “It is like some of the wealthy British aristocrats that were friends with Hitler… ”

    Or like some of the wealthy Americans, mostly Republicans, who were friendly with Hitler.

  354. For the record I agree that the Rezko deal was probably best considered unethical though I don’t see it as illegal.

    The destroyed records case is pretty weak – there were *thousands* of people interacting with him in those years when there were cameras and video and tape recorders. Are they all in on this? Of course that was the most tampered with book – I think it is about as likely that folks convinced they’d find smoking gun stuff clipped that (and found nothing much) more than people trying to cover up for Obama …

    I’m blaming HILLARY!

  355. (446) The interesting thing with yourself and many others is they are happy and content with x% of the story. I am not.

    When there is no legitimate reason to keep us from 100% of the story why do it?

    Perfect example is the Khalidi farewell dinner. Since LA Times says they fully reported what was on the tape what could be the harm in releasing it? They could easily go to their source and convince the source to release it.

    Anyone could take a percentage of any story and completely distort the entire story and Obama has a clear history of distorting history and/or suppressing it.

    Hey if the guy wants to be a senator I could give a crap what he has done until he holds a national position in congress or is running for the Whitehouse. Joe did you ever consider for once that some unsavory character is holding something about Obama and will try to use to extort him in the future? Can you image a person like Obama that has the ego that he what they would do in that situation?

    Someone like Obama would never resign for the good of the country it is just not something he is able to do.

  356. For the record I probably would have supported some of the Central American protests. In those bizarre times “we” were allied with some of the most foul fascists fighting less nasty and more popularly supported communists. Politics in those situations is very complicated as you need to step away, support the lesser of evils, or as I advocated then *stop supporting death squads*. After a lot of barbarity on both sides the contras and Sandinistas eventually cleaned up their acts and started to be less barbaric, but if Obama was protesting our support for Central American dictators then there’s no problem.

    Glenn the reason there is some denial of access to records is that Obama very likely had minor connections to some objectionable groups and characters. If this would be examined objectively, in context, and with fairness it might be released, but it would not be examined objectively. Ergo if you are a campaign manager you are trying to keep wraps on anything that might be abusable.

    It’s perposterous to think Obama information (or in case of Ashley Todd NON Information) is getting vetted objectively by the media, let along right wing blogs. Ashley Todd and Kenya Birth is the best example of a total NON stories that were immediately front page hit pieces. It’s complete BS and Obama is wise not to release anything that might add any fuel to that fake fire.

    Only if you assume the absolute worst possible scenarios does Obama come out as anything other than a very bright and sincere left leaning Democrat. There’s no reason to assume the absolute worst possible scenario here.

  357. The biggest thing that cracks me up coming out of the Obama campaign is their rationalization of his budget resolution vote to raise taxes on people making at little as $42k a year. He voted for it twice.

    The Obama response…the resolution was non-binding so his vote on it really doesn’t matter…

    Well how about this concept…if your vote really didn’t matter then why didn’t you vote against it?

    His track record is 100% vote to increase taxes in the last 10 years. NOT ONCE HAS HE EVER VOTED TO NOT INCREASE TAXES.

    So somehow magically with the Obama/Pelosi/Reid trifecta we actually think he isn’t going to raise taxes.

    This reminds of George H…read my lips…no new taxes (as he is flipping of America)…

  358. (449) Obama is surely not as innocent as you want to believe and not as bad as some of the right wing bloggers…

    However we have no idea where he will really land…because he has deliberately kept the truth from ALL of us.

    A perfect example is Daily KOS – the Obama campaign and the DNC work directly with Daily KOS on a regular basis. Daily KOS is one of the most hateful sites on the net. Calling for people like Tony Snow to die, etc…

    Point out one right wing site as pathetic as Daily KOS that works directly with McCain or Republicans for that matter.

    This is not conjecture about Daily KOS it is well documented that shows these connections.

  359. (449) Any of the proxy wars the US have been in have been totally stupid. You either do it or you don’t.

    You don’t play balanced response, etc when at war.

    If you decide to go you need to establish operational tempo and execute your campaign with extreme prejudice.

    We have made some incredibly stupid political decisions about war. Politicians need not be involved with our military operations. They should participate in the decision but then shut their pie holes and let our troops get the job as quickly and as efficiently as possible.

    I am still shaking my head that our politicians encouraged Afghanistan to implement that temporary cease-fire…it let Bin Laden escape Tora Bora…just unbelievably stupid.

  360. Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are all in serious trouble – especially Medicare/caid. As boomers retire the deficits those programs run will only get much, much worse – and that’s not even allowing for the costs associated with this recession and the twin conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    You really believe you can tax-cut your way out of this ? The only tax cuts I’ve seen under Republicans disproportionately benefit those who make 6 digit and higher incomes. Nobody wants to pay higher taxes, but I have no faith Democrats or Republicans will cut enough to make up for the shortfalls we face. They are both too beholden to lobbyists and special interests who will stridently protect their turf. McCain says he’ll cut waste in the military…I heard that before – from Bush the 1st, Bush the 2nd and Reagan…it never happened…too much money bending the wills of too many Congressmen for that to happen.

    Trickle down ought to be named trickle up – for it has been those at the top who have benefited the most. Aggregate taxes are going to go up, it’s only a matter of who will pay what percentage of the increases.

  361. (453) Paul…Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are ALL failed government programs. You think we would learn.

    I have never gotten anything from them…nor will I ever see anything from them either.

    My parents have benefited but anyone in our age expecting anything from these is not looking at reality.

    The programs should be eliminated.

  362. Obama only got a 21.7 share last night…I seem to remember an episode of ALF around 1990 that got a 23 rating that was only on one channel…lol


  363. I think the 200 vs 250 is because the 250 means, for most, “about the same taxes”. Last night wasn’t he saying who would get a cut, which would be folks in that 200k ballpark.

    He has not changed the plan, which is this:

    Repealing a portion of the Bush tax cuts for families over $250,000 while continuing to leave their tax
    rates at or below where they were in the 1990s:
    o Ordinary Income: The top two income tax brackets would return to their 1990’s levels of 36% and
    39.6%. All other tax brackets would remain as they are today. Obama would also restore the 1990’s
    levels for the personal exemption and itemized deduction phaseouts (known as PEP and Pease).
    Obama would work with the Treasury Department to adjust the thresholds of these rates slightly to
    ensure that no married couple making less than $250,000 (or single making less than $200,000) was
    affected by these changes.
    o Capital Gains: Families with incomes below $250,000 will continue to pay the capital gains rates
    that they pay today. For those in the top two income tax brackets – likewise adjusted to affect only
    families over $250,000 – Obama will create a new top capital gains rate of 20 percent. Obama’s 20%
    rate is equal is the lowest rate that existed in the 1990s and the rate that President Bush proposed in
    2001. It is almost a third lower than the rate that President Reagan signed into law in 1986.vii
    o Dividends: The top dividends rate for people making over $250,000 would be set at 20 percent.
    Dividends will not return to being taxed at ordinary income tax rates. Obama’s 20 percent rate on
    dividends will be 39 percent lower than the rate President Bush proposed in 2001, and would be
    lower than all but 5 of the last 92 years we have been taxing dividends.viii
    o Estate Tax: The estate tax would be effectively repealed for 99.7 percent of estates. For the
    remaining 0.3% of estates over $7 million per couple, Obama will retain a rate of 45%. This policy
    would cut the number of estates covered by the tax by 84 percent relative to 2000.ix
    o Average Tax Rates Below the 1990s: Overall, the top 1 percent of households – people with an
    average income of $1.6 million per year – would see their average federal income and payroll tax
    rate increase from 21 percent today to 24 percent, less than the 25 percent these households would
    have paid under the tax laws of the late 1990s.

  364. (460) Joe you seriously believe that Obama/Pelosi/Reid/Frank/Dodd won’t raise taxes on EVERYONE!

    That is like locking an addict in a room filled with drugs…

    There is NO way these guys won’t take money from everyone.

    Plus no one is discussing the impact on goods and services that are going to increase when the corporate taxes goes up.

    It is a fantasy…

    Joe do you agree that Obama campaigned three times before on a middle class tax cut?

    Twice when running for Illinois and once for congress.

    He never even brought the subject up after election.

    Why could you possibly believe that he is going to actually deliver a tax cut this time?

  365. Glenn! Glenn? GLENN! This is a perfect example of how right wing blogs simply write something, then link to non-evidence. Usually it is *irrelevant* stuff, in this case the post by Obama is superb. I dare you to read that and suggest he’s advocating anything but a reasonable course of action:

    You must not have read it (the blogger clearly did not) It has nothing to do with banning moderates – it is a critique of KOS and *exactly the opposite* of what they suggest.

    In fact it’s a brilliant articulation, as usual, by Obama and a good indication of why he’s the best choice for America. Obama is criticizing the partisan BS at KOS and elsewhere, and noting that the politics of personal destruction and lies benefit nobody.

    This is exactly what’s also going on with a lot of the “guilt by association” crap. Obama engages people he disagrees with, articulates a great position, and is then attacked for associations that any good statesman would make.

    Our goal should be to stick to our guns on those core values that make this country great, show a spirit of flexibility and sustained attention that can achieve those goals, and try to create the sort of serious, adult, consensus around our problems that can admit Democrats, Republicans and Independents of good will. This is more than just a matter of “framing,” although clarity of language, thought, and heart are required. It’s a matter of actually having faith in the American people’s ability to hear a real and authentic debate about the issues that matter.

  366. Glenn! Glenn? GLENN! This is a perfect example of how right wing blogs simply write something, then link to non-evidence. Usually it is *irrelevant* stuff, in this case the post by Obama is superb. I dare you to read that and suggest he’s advocating anything but a reasonable course of action:

    You must not have read it (the blogger clearly did not) It has nothing to do with banning moderates – it is a critique of KOS and *exactly the opposite* of what they suggest.

    In fact it’s a brilliant articulation, as usual, by Obama and a good indication of why he’s the best choice for America. Obama is criticizing the partisan BS at KOS and elsewhere, and noting that the politics of personal destruction and lies benefit nobody.

    This is exactly what’s also going on with a lot of the “guilt by association” crap. Obama engages people he disagrees with, articulates a great position, and is then attacked for associations that any good statesman would make.

    Our goal should be to stick to our guns on those core values that make this country great, show a spirit of flexibility and sustained attention that can achieve those goals, and try to create the sort of serious, adult, consensus around our problems that can admit Democrats, Republicans and Independents of good will. This is more than just a matter of “framing,” although clarity of language, thought, and heart are required. It’s a matter of actually having faith in the American people’s ability to hear a real and authentic debate about the issues that matter.

  367. (462) Joe I did read it…

    Let me be clear: I am not arguing that the Democrats should trim their sails and be more “centrist.” In fact, I think the whole “centrist” versus “liberal” labels that continue to characterize the debate within the Democratic Party misses the mark. Too often, the “centrist” label seems to mean compromise for compromise sake, whereas on issues like health care, energy, education and tackling poverty, I don’t think Democrats have been bold enough.

  368. FYI the BS blog was quoting as Obama’s plan the part of the piece where Obama is saying how the KOS attack perspective:

    “…misreads the American people.”

    Total bait and switch although I think blogs like that may have very low reading comprehension abilities. This trick also has been used totally deceptively by many right wing dyslexic blogs who took a quote from one of Obama’s books where he is *criticizing* a prevailing idea about race and class in America, pretending he supports it. It’s deceptive and dishonest to do that.

    The *incredible irony* of these attacks is that when you pay close attention, actually read what the guy says and writes, Obama is always, every single time I’v checked, with NO exceptions whatsoever, making a case for the open, Democratic capitalistic nation we all know and love.

  369. Joe the biggest disconnect with Obama. His speeches are great, his writings are great (if he actually writes them) but they all amount to rhetoric.

    What he actually does seldom matches what he says he believes and is going to do?

    Doesn’t it seem odd that the state of Illinois would block any access to Obama’s sponsored bills, etc while he was senator?

    Doesn’t that at all concern you?

    Try to get his voting record out of Illinios…try to look up the bills he sponsored, try to find the earmarks he put into bills. YOU WILL FIND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

    But hey…he is a public servant he must have privacy on everything he does on the public’s dime.

  370. That is what is so interesting about this. People want to believe what he says because they are so desperate for this country to get back on track – me included in that one.

    However his track record of what he has ACTUALLY done does not match up with what he is saying.

    And then when you have to look elsewhere to figure this guy out you run into all these strange associations where if it were ANY other candidate Democrat or Republican they would totally be OUT of the race at this point. THAT FACT SHOULD RAISE CONCERN.

    So once again the old Axlerod smoke and mirrors, jedi mind trick methods are manipulating and misleading people at a minimum through confusion of the facts and to a worse potential of actual fraud.

  371. Glenn you’ve really lost me on this one.

    Then how could you write this AFTER reading the original article?

    … Obama himself discussing the purging and banishing of moderate democrats

    He does nothing of the kind – he says that is a BAD thing to do! It’s was the crazy blog person that rewrote his points to look bad. It was a *total* distortion.

    The thing your wrote in 464 is a direct quote but no big deal – he’s saying the Dems should 1) stop polarizing the debate and 2) be bolder with solutions. That’s a good idea by any standard.

  372. (468) Yes the question came from the blog. When you put into context the comments that Obama has made on the floor of the Senate and publicly in speeches you can understand the rationale for that question.

    Unfortunately the blogger neglected to put in those references. They include Obama’s stated litmus test for supreme court justices, i.e. they are disqualified if they have a conservative ideology. From my perspective that is just wrong. You don’t qualify a person to be judge based on their ideology…you look at their qualifications, life experience, etc. The irony here is Obama wants America to vote for him because he says he is a unifier and is qualified however if he ran on his true ideology he wouldn’t get elected. It smells of a certain level of hypocrisy to me.

    They have talked Obama included, but especially Pelosi and Reid of punishing and diminishing moderate Democrats. All this is happening and yet Pelosi has the gall to state that a Democrat controlled Whitehouse and congress would be bi-partisan.

    The entire point of this bloggers post is the final fact that Obama is not a moderate. He wants America to believe he is…but he is a far left candidate masking his true beliefs in Saul Alinsky style just to get elected.

  373. This is being reported in Israel…

    A weekend 5.0 Richter earthquake in Iran was actually a nuclear bomb test, says an Iranian nuclear scientist claiming to be working on the project.

    Crazy stuff…

  374. JFK said he would reduce taxes. The Republicans thought he was nuts. He did it.

    Reagan said he would reduce taxes. He got them through. They were way too severe,and it had to be corrected. The last correction was the read-my-lips tax increase.

    Clinton said he would raise them, and he did it.

    Bush said he would lower them and he did it.

    I see no reason whatsoever to doubt that Obama, of congress will go along with him, and I see no reason they would not, will reduce taxes.

  375. (471) JCH the point is…he will end up raising taxes on everyone. You will see any tax cut if it does happen will be very short lived with this crew…

  376. What Obama has said is that taxable income for a joint return up to $250,000 is taxed at 35% – I assume he means from 200,000 to 250,000.

    On income above that rate he said 39% would apply. He has also described it as Clinton’s top rate, which I believe was 39.6%.

    There has been no shifting sand. He has not changed the plan with respect to thresholds.

    He did add a work requirement that effected a tiny sliver of the 95%.

  377. (456) And you would replace them with what, exactly ??? Do you have any idea how many people count on these programs for their very survival ?? Eliminate them without some viable alternatives and masses of people starve to death and die from lack of medical care.

    Bush was going to privatize SSI – could you imagine where we would be with all that money in the market before it imploded ??…people truly would be jumping off buildings and bridges.

  378. (475) Paul the people that are currently on it should stay but the program should be stopped.

    We need a new program that cannot be robbed by congress…that is what they keep doing and no one talks about it.

    Privatization would be a great idea…it is ironic that you scream and yell about the sad shape of these government programs but at the same time you say people would be jumping off buildings if it were privatized. Our current status with these programs is absolute proof that the government has no business trying to do this stuff.

    There are much better ways to manage these issues.

    Have you even considered the impact of our hospitals and medical staff once we overnight add up to 50 million people to the “insured” status. There is no program to beef up the staff needed to manage this. The increase in non-emergency related procedures is going to sky rocket.

    You will see older people taken out of priority with procedures they so desperately need. With the liberal left and their “policing” of our health care system I can clearly see the day when an older American who has worked hard their entire life, paid their taxes be pushed out of a needed surgery and an illegal who is younger would get treatment.

    It amazes me that no one thinks of the radical impact to our health system with such a reckless plan like Obama’s.

    Universal health care sounds great and noble but NOTHING has been done to solve our existing health care issues and the lack of staff that is needed to handle the oncoming onslaught. I know the situation is unfair but Obama’s buddies the trial lawyers are the main problem with the skyrocketing costs of our health care.

  379. Well, at least Greta Van Susteren didn’t know about it:

    by Greta Van Susteren
    READ BELOW: THIS IS SIMPLY A LIE ABOUT ME AND I HAVE NO IDEA IF A LIE ABOUT FOX AND / OR SEAN HANNITY BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS STUFF BELOW IS. I HAVE NO IDEA WHO API (AFRICAN PRESS) IS…this is the first I have heard about them….BUT I DO WANT TO “KILL THE VIRUS” LYING ABOUT ME. (Note that I lifted only part of the quote below because I just wanted to correct the lie about me..the website goes on and on.)”


  380. (477) Yes I was very skeptical of it…API seems like a bunch of buffoons! It reminds me of the Bill Clinton burning the American flag photo that never materialized…

    But MK all of these angles are interesting to discuss. I wonder if anyone has done an accounting of ALL the blog articles, posts, comments that people have done around the world on this election? I would assume the number would be staggering much like our debt!

  381. I think you are definitely right about the volume of discussion. It is off topic, but the advent of personal blogs (for which I am a big advocate) has led to a lot of randomization, dilution, and outright mistruths on some pretty important subjects. It would be a fascinating (albeit impossible) study to analyze the factual statements vs. the suppositions and outright distortions. Fascinating stuff.

  382. I do however think that this sort of thing more or less validates the “liberal media’s” refusal to publish such poppycock. In the end, it was clearly the right thing to do to refuse to publish such faulty claims, particularly because it could easily influence a vote improperly.

    (And yes, I just ducked when I said that. 🙂 )

  383. (482) The big issue with the liberal media is that they picked Obama from the start and pretended like it wasn’t so. They treated Hillary absolutely horrible through the primaries and they have gone so far overboard in regard to Palin.

    It seems that this country has a lot of misogynists in executive positions of power. I see it all the time and you would believe how much of it has existed in the advertising industry. I have been in meetings where if it could have happened my jaw would have dropped on the table.

    Anyway if they just said from day one we are endorsing Obama then it would have been a lot better.

    But people like Mathews, Olberman, NYT’s, etc are just way over the top. How disrespectful to say they get a feeling up their leg about a candidate!

    From my perspective the media is our only real avenue to really see a candidate and I think this year the Internet has eclipsed the media in this role and look at what has happened. A lot of garbage about both sides and truth has been suppressed as well.

    I think they really blew it and I think some of the networks could very well go out of business over this.

  384. Hey MK check out this breaking story.

    I heard the API has a tape of a witch doctor in Kenya that actually used magic to create the “authentic” birth certificate.

    They cut a deal with Geraldo and he is going to show it live from inside Al Capone’s vault while wearing the big foot costume he bought for over $250k on eBay…yes the same eBay people that are helping McCain’s campaign.

    This is timed for Monday night to counter the Obamamercial from last night.

  385. CA has to overhaul their tax structure. Too much of their tax revenue comes from the top 1% of earners. With the recent hit in the stock market their state revenues have dropped 10%.

    Schwarznegger said we are paying the price for our outdated tax system.

  386. I didn’t find it scary at all. I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in African American communities and have never once heard anyone believe that the government owes them a free ride. I hear a lot of voices frustrated with their circumstances, but everyone I knew in those communities just wanted a fair shake. Fair pay for fair work, fair treatment in education and community support, and fair representation. Never a word of taking over the government to establish a government run socialist state.

    But that was my experience. your mileage may vary.

  387. I take that back – there was one person – Demali Ayo, who has done a lot along the lines of reparations. But her work is often misunderstood (including initially by me) – her goal with a lot of the seemingly outrageous stunts was to raise awareness, not to demand actual reparations.

    But she is running a successful clothing company, is an incredible woman, and I dare anybody to try to take that company from hers in the name of a socialist state. 🙂

  388. (487) What does that have to do with the African American communities?

    It has to do with a voter that thinks Obama is going to be pay for gas and their mortgage…

  389. But MK this is very scary…

    And when John McCain suspended his campaign to dive head first into the fray, Obama’s campaign accused the Republican of being “unsteady.”

    But to hear Bill Clinton tell it, the Democratic nominee didn’t quite have a handle on the situation himself.

    “I haven’t cleared this with him and he may even be mad at me for saying this so close to the election, but I know what else he said to his economic advisers (during the crisis),” Clinton told the crowd at a Wednesday night rally with Obama in Florida. “He said, ‘Tell me what the right thing to do is. What’s the right thing for America? Don’t tell me what’s popular. You tell me what’s right — I’ll figure out how to sell it.'”

    I WILL FIGURE OUT HOW TO SELL IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  390. Hey Paul another fine example of our efficient and effective government at work…

    The government sent out more than $1 billion in fraudulent refunds last year and offered this explanation Thursday for the bad checks in the mail: The Internal Revenue Service has too few resources to pursue every tax fraud case.

    IRS investigators never even looked at an estimated $742 million in fraudulent refunds, according to a report by the Treasury Department office that monitors the agency. When they did identify an additional $264 million in bad refunds, it was too late to stop them from being issued.

  391. (490) Sorry Glenn – didn’t mean to imply that you believe that – I was just making the point that a lot of people believe that poorer African American communities are full of people who want a free ride, and thus will take Obama’s statements to mean they get one. I think that person was caught up in the moment like so many in attendance of any political convention, and if questioned further she would clarify that she doesn’t actually believe she’s getting all of that for free. He never, ever even comes close to saying anything like that. Kind of common sense I think.

    On McCain suspending his campaign, I truly thought that was one of the most ridiculous stunts I had seen him try to pull. This was the same man who said the economy was just fine a few weeks prior. In fact, his initial reaction was not to suspend the campaign, it was to “form a committee to get to the bottom of this” which for me was another nail in the coffin – yet another Republican-sponsored $50 Million dollar committee to study something for a couple of years until it’s all ancient history. That is definitely an emotional response on my part, but that was my honest feeling. I felt his “lets suspend the campaign” was not genuine at all, and more of a political move than anything.

    On “selling it” – welcome to politics. Part of the President’s job is to “sell” the solution to both parties and to the people, particularly because we are never going to all agree. The best he can do is to find the best solution according to consensus (which is what he asked for), and then be the mouthpiece for the solution. Which is essentially selling the idea.

    To me, your industry (or one of them I would imagine given your obvious experience) – the ad industry – is a perfect example of the necessity of salesmanship in today’s world. Politics is selling. Anyone who says different is, er, selling something. 🙂

  392. (493) McCain blew it with the suspend the campaign. I actually thought he was going to suspend to go back and put together a really good plan instead of the stupid bail-out.

    He should have stood up and opposed the planned bail-out and taken his proposal directly to the American people and had them call their elected officials. He would have had over 90% support in the country for it.

    Then if Bush/Paulson/Pelosi/Obama voted for the bail-out and passed it and blew right by McCain…McCain would have surged to an enormous lead and this race would have been history. It was a bold move that I would expected from a strong leader and maverick…my disappointed was indescribable.

    My point on the Clinton quote…take the scenario when he is face to face with a foreign leader and they have to have frank discussions and make decisions. He won’t be able to just listen and then go back to a group of advisers to get the best response.

    My industries vary across a wide range, I created technology companies that have serviced many different industries including advertising.

  393. Joe did you see the journalistic stats on bias…

    NBC, MSNBC, etc were unbelievably bias. MSNBC is like 73% negative toward McCain, while 14% negative toward Obama.

    FOX came in 40% negative toward McCain, 40% negative toward Obama.

  394. (494) You are right – that would have been a GREAT strategy (seriously).

    On your industry experience – I’ve probably worked for one of your companies then, and BOY am I oppressed. 🙂 I kid, I kid! 🙂

    On (495), I would say that is proof of Fox’s bias. 😀