Talking politics is not a crime!


People should be more forthcoming with their political opinions.

I think we’ve spawned a generation of folks who think it’s unbecoming to make a political case for what they believe and who tend to simply sit back and watch while others – usually with uninformed ranting – take the political stage.

You know who you are.   Speak up!

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About JoeDuck

Internet Travel Guy, Father of 2, small town Oregon life. BS Botany from UW Madison Wisconsin, MS Social Sciences from Southern Oregon. Top interests outside of my family's well being are: Internet Technology, Online Travel, Globalization, China, Table Tennis, Real Estate, The Singularity.
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74 Responses to Talking politics is not a crime!

  1. glenn says:

    According to Cas Sustein…he wants to squash freedom of thought and speech Joe…watch it’s coming!!!

    Why would anyone want to ask questions when they can become targets of the political machine?

  2. horatiox says:

    I’m for more rational citizens involved in the political process. Unfortunately, rationality is in short supply on both the wing-nut/FOXnews right, and KOS-emotocrat left, however trite or cynical that sounds. (Maybe have posters pass a test on the US Constitution for starters). Cool-headed, fact-based writing is not good for business; hysteria is.

    Limbaugh/Robertson’s remarks on the Haiti quake were quite inappropriate and stupid, but the typical whiny, liberal reponse was nearly as …fugly.

  3. Liz Holcomb says:

    I moved this off twitter because our time differences make it difficult to advance the conversation, not to mention the 140 limit.

    I wanted to reply to you immediately because I think it is so important for people to feel free to discuss politics. My original comment was misunderstood to be on politeness while discussing it, but in fact I meant that developing our civic society was important. Civics I guess is old skool for government, I would prefer to see a return to sober political analysis, fact checking and responsible claims. When people shy from talking politics then misinformation is more easily propagated. People vote or make financial decisions on incorrect or misleading information.

    Politics is simply the art of governing ourselves. I agree with you we need to talk about these issues rather then saying oh well let’s not talk about politics. Political discussions are one of the most important discussions to have in any society, kudos to you for not shying away from it!

    • glenn says:

      Liz I would have to differ on the following:

      “Politics is simply the art of governing ourselves”

      Horse hockey.

      Politics is about deceit, manipulation and politics has devolved into a graceless sport of destroying the opposition and furthering your own self-preservation regardless of cost.

      Our political system and the people involved are a disgrace.

      • JoeDuck says:

        Glenn I’d really like to hear from your “positive” side about how we could build what you would see as a viable representative democracy.

        As I’ve said before I think we’ve done pretty well at that even as there are many exceptions to our general USA experience of very stable, pretty good quality governance since 1776, but you seem to think it’s been failing for some time.

        I think we’d agree that the role of lobbies and campaign money has distorted things, but let’s say we took your advice and voted out everybody who is now “in” – who would we get to replace them?

  4. JoeDuck says:

    Cool-headed, fact-based writing is not good for business; hysteria is

    This is both a good point and an explanation of the challenge.

    • glenn says:

      The only hysteria and mis-representation has come from Obama, et al.

      Remember never waste a crisis!!!

      Clear-headed thinking and we would have NEVER arrived where we are today and people thinking clearly would have NEVER bought the line of crap fed to them in election 2008.

      Facts are great, unfortunately you will NEVER hear them if they interfere with an ideology. That is the problem with the hypocrites ruining our country righ now. They suppress the truth, the facts and they will NEVER admit they were wrong if somehow it could hurt their ideology.

  5. JoeDuck says:

    I would prefer to see a return to sober political analysis, fact checking and responsible claims. When people shy from talking politics then misinformation is more easily propagated. People vote or make financial decisions on incorrect or misleading information.

    AMEN to the Liz! But.. please don’t hold your breath on that or we’ll have one less clear thinking person in the world.

  6. glenn says:

    Joe the best way I can put this into perspective.

    Consider the following.

    You pay $1,000,000 in taxes.

    Are you happy with what you got?

    As for a representative democracy. We don’t have that, not supposed to. We have a republic with a constitution and bill of rights.

    It isn’t a negative bill of rights, etc…it is a blueprint what is successful – freedom, liberty and the persuit of happiness. Our problem is we have allowed our government to destroy our constitution. The federal government is not supposed to be this way. We need to restore the blueprint for what made this country great…not surrender to some lame failed experiment from Europe.

    And the liberals better accept what is going to happen. Conservatives outnumber liberals in this country easily 2-3:1 and now they are awakened. You will see a huge landslide victory in MA this week. The throne of Kennedy will be no more. The elections this year are going to be a massive bloodbath for the liberals.

    The unfortunate part…I don’t hold out much hope that the GOP will be much better as long as people like Rush and Steele control it.

    We need radicals allright…but radicals like Madison not Marx.

    • horatiox says:

      Madison supported estate taxes, as did all the Founding fathers. Jefferson opposed Hamilton’s finance schemes, and did not care for the religious right of his time. So it’s not like the Founders should be assumed to be the equivalent of FoxNews from 1800, though Beck, Palin, Rush, etc. try to put that spin on the Amer. Rev.

      • glenn says:

        The answer is with the states not with a centeralized socialist government.

        States need to take their power back. The federal government needs to be massively scaled back in both its power and reach.

        Our core problems can be traced back to the interstate commerce act – it was the beginning of the end – not withstanding the damage the Fed has done.

        It amazes me when I talk to people and they defend organizations like the Fed, like somehow they are a positive thing for us – they are directly linked to every fiscal problem we have and have had. No oversight, no audit, etc…it is a formula for disaster.

        Reagan was right about one thing: Government isn’t the answer.

        I suggest people take some time and get to know Ben Franklin – he would appalled at what is going on today and he arguably is one of the smartest people ever to grace our country.

  7. glenn says:

    If you haven’t read it yet…read the 5,000 year leap and the Federalists papers…to understand what exactly is happening and what is wrong with our country.

    • horatiox says:

      Again, the Federalist papers should not be mistaken for a blueprint for FoxNews and Sarah Palin. And in fact the Federalists like Hamilton and Madison opposed states rights, Glennster. The states rights faction are generally considered to be anti-Federalists, Lee, Mason, Clinton, Jefferson, etc–and alas, they tended to be the slavers as well.

      That’s one of the problem of the neo-cons: they like to suggest the Founders of the USA were of one mind, when they weren’t. The libertarian-right may be states rights, but they are not really Federalists (in fact the early Feds wanted something like a centralized bank, ie a Fed). Yet even some southern Demos (Jefferson) were not exactly free market advocates, and wanted controls on banking early on.

  8. glenn says:

    Stossel hit on Cass Sunsteins…words…

    http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/01/18/stealth-propaganda/?test=latestnews

    Talk about restricting free speech and go after enemies of the progressive movement…geesh…

  9. glenn says:

    ROFL – Scott Brown…

    Now that is a clear-headed example of Hope and Change THAT YOU MUST DEFINITELY CAN BELIEVE IN.

    Speaking of the final de-throning of King Ted…did you see this comment from Chris Van Hollen, chairman of the Dem Congressional Campaign Committee…he said this:

    ’Why would you hand the keys to the car back to the same guys whose policies drove the economy into the ditch and then walked away from the scene of the accident? For the Republicans to say vote for us and bring back the guys who got us into this mess in the first place, I don’t think it’s a winner.’

    OMG…this is exactly what you would said to someone who voted for Ted…UNBELIEVABLE!!! Mary Jo hopefully you are seeing justice now!

  10. horatiox says:

    Van Holen has a point–Brown appears to be merely another slash-taxes, strong on defense type. Ayn Rand-o-nomics (he at least is not a total winger but allows for abortion). Guar-ann-teed to please Glennsters, or the Foxnews bunker.

    Miss Coakley may have irritated as few Mass. locals with some catholic-bashing, and that probably cost her. And BHO and other Demo insiders didn’t do much to help out.

    • glenn says:

      The irony was Hollen’s comments fit perfectly with the Chappaquiddick murder by Ted Kennedy.

      Ted Kennedy himself walked away from the scene of an accident, let Mary Jo Kopechine die alone in the cold water of the tidal channel all because he was too drunk and drove his car off the bridge thus killing Mary Jo!

      The country is far better off with Kennedy gone and it is poetic that Brown took the Kennedy “throne” after 50 years of tyranny.

      Coakley’s demise is symptomatic of Obama’s failed presidency. This will replay over and over again throughout 2010 and hopefully this country will finally purge our legislation of progressives – they pose a significant threat to our Constitution and freedoms.

      As far as defense spending…we spend way too much on it with little accountability and we spend way too much time and money and American lives cleaning up other people’s problems. Half the things we get involved in militarily are nuts!

      Obama is repeating the same failed policies of the progressives during the Great Depression – he is just supercharging them that will result in longer and more drawn out pain. Clear thinking Americans realize this, you can’t spend your way out of a recession and if you are in trouble financially the last thing you do is pile on more debt – IT IS RECIPE FOR EPIC FAIL.

      The bottom line this isn’t about the GOP or DEM’s neither have the answers this is about a patriot stepping up in GOP shoes (because he has no other choice becuase of our corrupt electoral process) and putting the people first and not an ideology.

      Just look at the pathetic coverage of this election from MSNBC – those people are mentally ill.

      • horatiox says:

        Glennster, the old Chappaquiddick scandal doesn’t count for much, except when Annie Coulter needs another bore-gasm. And who’s to blame for that? The courts, if anything. Besides Ted K., like the rest of the Kennedy crime family only seems liberal to the extreme right wing of GOP. He was quite conservative (like anti-abortion,not too fond of unions, generally supportive of defense) until like the Reagan era, and then started to support some “liberal” causes.

        Ted K did one pretty good thing: he stood up to William Rehnquist, the GOP’s crypto-Goebbels (actually about half the Demos supported Rehnquist anyway–and all supported….Scalia. Nothin’ but Demopublicans)
        Nixon actually had put forth a health-care plan, even somewhat liberal, before Ted Kennedy jumped onboard.

        That said, the Dems still have a significant majority
        in House and Senate.

  11. leland stamper says:

    For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my Massachusetts.

    • glenn says:

      Congrats LS…second revolution in the making.

      Horatiox your left-coastedness has left you a little numb when it comes to Kennedy. Chappaquiddick really doesn’t matter unless your the Kopechine family – GEESSH!!! We are talking about someone losing their daughter here!

      Kennedy spoke anti-abortion because the Kennedy dynasty required the support of the Catholic church – and that is the only reason. Maybe being saddled with the likes of Pelosi and Boxer have taken away your perspective on what a Conservative is :).

      Kennedy was an evil, drunk misogynist pig! The way Kennedy, Dodd and O’Neill used to tool around DC molesting women was unbelievable.

      Obama is now a lame duck who is impotent. The DEMS completely blew this opportunity and they will not get anything major passed for the duration of this failed term.

      Reid, Boxer, et al are in serious jeopardy this fall and the bloodbath will be substantial – their recklessness and foolish progressive agenda just set the Democratic party back at least 3 terms now. Obama = Carter 2.0 (failed upgrade) which will now lead to a Reagan 2.0.

      Of course I said all of this before the election and still a lot of you voted for the fool! Lesson learned: Hope is not a strategy!

      • horatiox says:

        I don’t think you quite understand what Van Holen was saying, which concerned economics, rather than the usual political whining and character assassination. Economically speaking, the GOP’s policies of laissez-faire and de-reg led to most of the current economic problems (though centrist demos like Clinton, Feinstein, Lieberman helped out). Enron–courtesy of the GOP.

        Brown looks like another free-market loving/tax slasher: and let’s not forget BushCo spent billions on the IWE, yet did not raise taxes or have any way to cover the expenses. They’re against govt. programs–except for the DoD. Same for Calif.: the state will probably go bankrupt mainly because Ahhnuld took out billions in loans (while slashing all sorts of programs), and will not consider raising taxes on his wealthy cronies or corporations.

        The Ron Paul/Gingrich/libertarian/teabagger model has been shown not to work, but that doesn’t stop the Glennsters from insisting it does. There are other reasons to object to the GOP, i.e. their love of the military, religious fundamentalism, the police state (though, many liberals are rather fond of the police state as well).

        Harry Reid at least has worked towards implementing some sensible regulations, like on energy speculation. He’s taken on Big Oil. He’s pulled for health care. Many people, not only welfare recipients, support the idea of govt. assisted health care. The Nev. gaming people don’t like him too much–probably because he’s taken on the vegas mafia at times.

        The Kennedy era is probably over. Again, they were whipping boys for the WASP-right but were not that liberal, though Ted K. introduced some fairly progressive leg. in 80s and 90s perhaps. At least Ted Kennedy stood up to Justice Rehnquist (the Rehnquist court probably most conservative and theocratic of the 20th cent.), which is more than most of the GOP bootlickers can say.

        It’s only because of the quaint 60/40 rules on “cloture” that many progressive policies have not passed in the senate (or state govts). One new frat-boy GOP senator doesn’t really matter. And I suspect the Demos, if they have any spine, will be trying to change the 60/40 to simple majorities.

  12. glenn says:

    I got what Holen was saying…it was amazing that he used that metaphor…that was my point. The ONLY metaphor he shouldn’t use in regard to Kennedy. It just shows another prime example of just how deeply out of touch with reality and common sense that the Democrats are. Did you listen to Howard Dean’s explanation of the Brown election? Even Chris Mathews said he was nuts.

    We are the point in our government that any legislation now has too much “re-election” and “pay-off” baggage to be an effective use of our hard-earned money.

    Think about it. The healthcare legislation, one of it’s primary goals to insure the uninsured but if we put it in place it still leaves 2/3’s of the uninsured still without insurance – EPIC FAIL. And unions are paid off big time – unions represent less than 7% of the people in this country – they shouldn’t get 100% of the benefit.

    Everything now is special interest and the majority suffers. They advocate goals that everyone must love or you’re a demon if you don’t. Who doesn’t want to save the environment, who doesn’t want people to get healthcare? Great ideals but unfortunately our elected body does not really embrace those goals…those goals have become the nice to have and if they don’t happen – no matter – they got their political pie out of it – AND WE THE TAXPAYERS GET SCREWED.

    How anyone can think that a government public option healthcare system will actually work well? Seriously – it has failed EVERYWHERE else in the world and it will be a disaster here. AND SOME BUREAUCRAT will decide whether you get what you need – of course if that “belongs to a union” check box is checked you will get carte blanche.

    The tide is turning and the backlash is going to be severe – hopefully we will get serious campaign finance reform (but who knows now with the latest court ruling) and term limits out of this mess.

  13. horatiox says:

    EU or Brit. style health care works–perhaps not everyone likes it, like Her Royal Majesty, or her family. Dear, must we…associate with the commoners in this dreadful clinic…

    Seriously, Glennster, some people, like the wealthy, probably stand to lose with govt. health care: most of the opposition comes from insurance companies who want to keep raking it in, or from corps who will pay higher premiums (rightfully so). But many Americans approve of Medicare, or VA,even with corruption and bureaucracy. So many will benefit. That’s the way politics works. I am against welfare and handouts in principle, but the free market works more like a casino than some efficient fair system. Thus the need for some social programs.

    I seem to recall you’re a business owner. So your premiums will probably be higher if ObamaCare passes (but as Howie Dean says, it’s really fairly moderate–not public enough). Ergo, you oppose it. I wager many of your employees could use better plans (as could many of us). I think it should be something like an upgraded VA: you are issued a govt. card, and get VA-like care when needed. But that’s a bit too simple for the demopublicans.

    • glenn says:

      The answer is to have insurance do what it was intended to do. Cover you in a major incident, etc.

      Insurance companies are a nightmare and government will only make it into a night-terror.

      You should pay for your doctor’s visit directly. You should cut the deal with your doctor. Your health and its management is YOUR choice not the government.

      You should decide what tests you want to pay for, etc… the costs would be more inline if there wasn’t this insurance pays for all BS that has artificially inflated our medical costs.

      That is the core problem we are using insurance as something it wasn’t intended to be…oh yeah it was government regulation that changed the insurance industry into this pay for all mentality – I wonder why they did that? – Could it be they wanted to take a step to socialized medicine in this country? Get people hooked on someone else paying the bill.

      So let’s really reform healthcare – restore the doctor/patience relationship, fix insurance so it covers major problems and give you the consumer the freedom to choose who you want to take care of you.

      Believe me that is the first step to fixing our problem.

      Medicare, etc is bankrupt and for good reason everyone takes advantage of the system and there is no check and balance.

      Ever go to the doctor and when he is going to prescrbie something for you…he changes the prescription becuase of the insurance you have?

      I would rather see medical investment accounts for employees where they can manage their healthcare risks, etc.

      They certainly couldn’t do worse than the government.

      And the fact is…the majority of Americans are against government run healthcare.

  14. glenn says:

    Hortiox you want to trust people in the Whitehouse that believe Scott Brown win is a referendum against Bush Years!!!

    Seriously you have to question the mental stability of the people involed in this administration. To believe this kind of irrational thought is pretty darn scary.

    There is definitely something wrong here.

  15. horatiox says:

    Again, you’re resorting to the character bashing. Van Holen’s point holds: Brown’s just another tax-slashing GOP frat boy type. What does “conservative” mean anyway? To most in GOP that simply means something like favoring “trickle down”: being against Big Govt. and taxation, except DoD. It’s fairly meaningless. In some sense controlling/regulating business might be said to be conservative, at least in terms of preventing economic crisis. It might have been prudent to have upheld some New deal policies. Once they were overturned (by Gramm/Clinton/Gingrich) the lenders/banks were given free rein, and then problems ensued.

    • glenn says:

      Horatiox you are the one character bashing with every statement. “Brown’s just another tax-slashing GOP frat boy type.”

      There is nothing you can find damaging in Brown’s personal history, work, military or political career. He has been great to the country and deserves a fair shake in Congress.

      The two most important things for Conservatives: The Constitution and small government. In fact to protect our Constitution government has to be small.

      Liberals could give a crap about the Constitution, mentally ill control freaks most of them. They fear liberty, freedom and responsibility. Fortunately they are the minority in this country and soon will be going back into the shadows where they belong.

      As far as the DOD is concerned…I think we spend way too much, but I also don’t think we engage in warfare the way you should. I would favor a much more drastic less expensive approach.

      The entire period of the New Deal was a complete and utter disaster. If you think anything they did during the New Deal was prudent you either don’t know history or disregard it or you are a progressive/communist/socialist – take your pick they all apply. I suggest you go back just a bit further in time before the great depression and read about the major depression that was avoided because of spending reductions and tax cuts – it was the best recovery we have ever had and unfortunately you don’t hear about it. The New Deal was 100% about implementing a large government socialist structure onto our free country.

      If you believe in a free country you would despise the New Deal and everything about it.

      The government is never the answer.

      • horatiox says:

        Wrong again. You don’t understand the Great Depression, and why FDR and his admin. implemented the New Deal–in RESPONSE to unregulated speculation, buying on margin, banking scams (including speculation with mortgage funds, exactly what Gingrich/Gramm wanted overturned, thus leading to the swaps favored by Countrywide, JP Morgan, G-Sachs, etc). It was the repub. Hoover’s pro-business/finance at any cost policies which led to the Great DepressionFor that matter Wilson had already started regulating banks and robber baron capitalism. . You don’t understand economic history, Glennster.

        The Constitution also upholds separation of church and state, and Due Process unlike most biblethumping conservatives. And it’s not merely in favor of laissez-faire, or states rights. The Founding fathers supported estate taxes. And the 16th Amendment allows for income tax. Or are all Amendments wrong too, G? Maybe 15th and 19th Amendments reversed, and only white males vote….the FoxCo vision.

  16. glenn says:

    Horatiox Coolidge was more my style. Hoover was smart but didn’t understand the market dynamics. He did absolutely nothing after the crash which was a huge mistake.

    However what FDR did was an atrocity on America, they even manipulated the voting process so he could stay in office for so long – America was lied to the entire time just like it is being lied to today. Why do you think we decided after FDR to limit the term to 2? FDR’s process and decisions ultimately lead the US into WWII – it was the only way out.

    You need production and use and you can’t do that with stimulus spending on bogus jobs and political payouts.

    77% of investors view Obama as anti-business. His newest regulations on banking are a huge over-reach and just like FDR Obama is empowering and paying off his cronies and screwing anyone that is against him.

    Unfortunately for this country the backlash will be massive and will just keep out of the balance this country needs to ultimately be successful.

    Obama will go down in history as the single worst president ever to sit in the Whitehouse.

    BTW…I noticed your racial tones when referring to Fox…I just don’t see that. The only people manipulating race for their advantage are people like Holder, Jimmy Carter, etc.

    THIS IS ALL ABOUT OBAMA’s MARXIST IDEOLOGY.

    • horatiox says:

      Interventionism is not marxism: that’s a typical GOP prevarication. Keynes argued for interventionism of various sorts, including controlling speculation, and spending on public programs, education, etc. There were Keynesians on FDR’s admin.

      The current economic crisis was brought about by your type of laissez-faire policies, with no regs, no interventionism, privatization. Glennsternomics led to the banking crisis, and thus to the bailout (bipartisan supported). That is, except for the taxpayer-funded DoD, beloved by GOP, which is approaching Darth Vater status (though ObamaCo DOD spending actually about the same as BushCo’s budget).

      FoxCo is like the Three Stooges, but not quite as funny. Like Glenn Beck—Curly! Yeah.

      • glenn says:

        Reasonable regulation is expected but it needs to be done in an open and honest transparent manner.

        Now what we are seeing now with czar’s unilaterally acting without oversight, above the law, able to to hide behind executive privilege and being appointed with no confirmation or review process.

        Sounds more like Chavez than it does interventionism.

        Horatiox the Brown Revolution has begun, the horse has left, this dog will hunt – it is over for Obama and Dems. Nothing will happen from this point forward.

        Everyone who voted for Obama wasted their vote and hurt this country—gee what a great experiment. Maybe next time we will demand to know who we are voting for.

        Bernanke, etc probably should be in jail and not looking for another appointment. The banking crisis was created by the idiots in the government (both sides of the aisle) that thought it was wise to put as many people in an unsustainable position and then they thought it was even wiser to ignore the warning signs. Barney Frank July 2008 – there is nothing wrong with Fannie and Freddie – maybe he was referring to Freddie’s fanny…I don’t know.

        Gibbs sounds more like Baghdad Bob every day. His press briefings are a joke – HE NEVER ANSWERS A TOUGH QUESTION – EVER.

        You don’t notice the pattern of how every single person in DC is completely out of touch with America.

        One week before the Brown election – the Dems – Scott Brown is George Bush, 3 days after his election – Obama – I am just like Scott Brown!

        Howard Dean – the people in MA voted Brown in because we haven’t gotten healthcare passed!

        These people are nuts!

  17. glenn says:

    You know Horatiox and the rest of you that thinks Fox is evil you need to look at the FACTS. Fox continually comes out on top with balanced coverage meanwhile the other networks are clearly in the tank.

    http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2010/01/election-night-cable-ratings-foxnews.html

    Why not get your heads out of the sand and start looking for the truth and answer on what is going on in our country? Or do you just like being treated like a drone to do whatever the progressives what you to do or think?

    Fox News was perfectly balanced between Coakley and Brown (similar to how they were to Obama, etc).

    Meanwhile CNN: Coakley >80% coverage, Brown <30%
    MSNBC: Coakley 100%, Brown <40%
    FOX: Coakley 100%, Brown 100%

    You should be insulted that CNN, MSNBC don't think you can make your own decisions.

  18. glenn says:

    Yeah Joe it’s safe to talk politics…geesh another communist move by our self-appointed king…

    http://techdirt.com/articles/20100121/1418107862.shtml

    • horatiox says:

      Really, Glennster, the FoxCo-Right depends on these sort of facile generalizations about Democrats as a whole. Limbaugh started it,really: it’s a fallacy. Demos are a big tent. Some may deserve respect; some don’t. Some Demo policies were good ideas–including the New Deal.

      Harry Reid is not, say, Feinstein (and many Demos consider the Lieberman-like Feinstein a real liberal, when Reid’s record is much closer to traditional Demo. values). So, in effect, when you generalize about the Demos or liberals as a whole, you’re no better than many emotional, PC DINOcrats, who whine, daily, that “Republicans are the Oppressors/nazis/big Meanies!” You wouldn’t want to be a Miss Byronia of the GOP, would you? Osiris forbid.

      That said, some republicans are oppressive. Not all. But even Eisenhower sorts of GOPers have cause to be concerned about, say, the Supreme Court. They make decisions which seem conservative, but are really sort of statist and theocratic (ie the catholic majority has controlled SCOTUS for a few years–)

      Without specifics, data, evidence this sort of Limbaugh-speak just becomes a playground shouting match.

      • glenn says:

        We are living in a perpetual opposite day now…

        Whatever Gibbs, Pelosi, the MSNBC pundits, etc…say…the exact opposite is the truth.

        It is truly bizzare to watch this behavior as it continues to unfold. If these people actually believe the crap they are spewing then they have seriously damage brain matter.

        Isn’t it ironic though Horatiox how the DEM’s (like Reid) who liken the GOP with slavery when it is a fact that the GOP freed the slaves and the DEM elite wanted to keep slaves, how the NAZI party was grounded in the progressive movement and yet somehow the GOP are the nazi’s. Spongebob would be proud.

      • glenn says:

        It is people like Lloyd that Obama personally appointed who are the scary ones. He worships Chavez and how Chavez controls the media. He believe we need to do the same thing. He believes people who are NOT black that are in power need to resign so they can appoint a black person in their place.

        He is a socialist and rascist and is more like a Nazi then the everyday folk.

        How is it possible that in 2010 we tolerate someone with such twisted views? What does that say about Obama selecting him?

        Sustein, Holder and Lloyd are the hat-trick of rascism and Nazi style tactics and they have absolutely NO BIZ being in a position of power in a free country.

      • horatiox says:

        I’m an independent, but it’s quite obvious the GOP are scapegoating Sen. Reid, Glennster. Reid’s fairly rational, tho’ at times has suggested …tax raises, and regulations. Oh well. There has to be some way to pay for wars/military. The pelosicrats and Lieberdems are another matter.

        And the Jonah Goldberg- idea that nazis were liberals has no support, historically speaking. Hitler and some nazis were vegetarians for a while, supposedly. That does not mean vegetarians are nazis, at all.

  19. horatiox says:

    Kucinich’s points don’t seem that unreasonable. FoxCo has become an official GOP-TV site; Beck’s sort of the unofficial GOP par-tay chieftain–or Elder, perhaps. Even the so-called liberal media outlets, MS-NBC, CBS, CNN, ABC etc. do not offer speeches in favor of the Dems, or particular candidates (like FoxCo’s love for Brown, or Palin, etc).

  20. glenn says:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/25/obama-administration-steers-lucrative-bid-contract-afghan-work-dem-donor/

    Nothing to see here…no corruption in this administration…where is the rest of the media?

  21. glenn says:

    Horatiox it is a fact that Nazi’s were rooted in progressivism. US progressives and Nazi’s both started from eugenics. There is no disputing that fact.

    How else do you explain the positions, papers, speeches made by some of the people in this administration?

    It is wrapped around the progressive ideology which is based on eugenics (population control, one race is better than another, etc). Hitler just took it to another level but it is all based on the same folly of people control through corrupt government practices.

    It is digusting and a disgrace and it has NEVER worked and always ends up in violence.

    • horatiox says:

      Then Winston churchill’s a nazi as well, given his support for eugenics, even after WWII (when he supported use of gas on kurds and palestinians).

      Anyway, another category error, G. Eugenics was NOT progressivism. More like, a few progressives considered eugenics, including some in GOP–like T. Roosevelt, I believe. Even some Darwinists at times considered eugenics (TH Huxley, I believe)

      • glenn says:

        There are plenty of progressives in the GOP as well. That has been the major problem of our country. It is the progressive agenda that is sabotaging our country.

        Horatiox there are many people in this administration including Cas Sustein that believe in many of the eugenic principles. You also see it in various forms with several of our congressmen.

        These nut jobs think denying someone healthcare because of a financial calculation or believe that we should put sterlization chemical in our water supply…these are the eugenic freaks and Obama has hand picked some of the best.

        It fits completely in line with the arrogance this country is witnessing from this administration.

        Couple that with the extreme communists within Obama’s team like Van Jones and Lloyd it is a recipe for disaster.

        I would even be tempted to say Obama was more middle of the road if he didn’t have all these whack jobs working closely with him. None of it adds up.

        Just look at how they manipulate the system. They define an issue, make you want to support it by creating a red herring for you to grab on and then get their agenda implemented. Abortion is a perfect example, it has little to do with a woman’s choice, it is about eliminating people that could potentially be a burden on the welfare system.

        It is these progressive tenants that actually hurt the people they manipulate into supporting them. The majority of their efforts are a fraud and unfortunately people just don’t care enough to really hold these miscreants accountable.

        http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0602d.asp

        Actual factual history is clear on the track record of the progressives they have done more to destroy our US Constitution and hurt our country than any other group. Many progressive senators even brag today that most of what they do is clearly outside the US Constitution.

  22. horatiox says:

    I hope you’re not suggesting that progressives are….commies as well, Glennster. That isn’t the case. Ever hear of, or read John Dewey? Progressive edu-crat with capital P. I don’t generally agree with Dewey’s progressive pragmatism, but he did at one point criticize the stalinists, though he was reportedly somewhat supportive of soviets at first. I don’t think your point can be defended.

    That said, you may be correct there are marxist types in the Demos, or pseudo-marxists, who want to implement various social programs and bureaucracies, but they are a minority, probably (tho’ many SF peoples and politicians are quite radical, tis true).

    There is an innate statist ideology, a faith, really that big government and bureaucracy will solve everything, probably due to FDR (seen on New Worlds, as with Byronia’s daily whines–sort of Eleanor Roosevelt meets Barney Frank). But the libertarian-right’s ideology–govt. is always wrong–may be just as inflexible. The older prog. democrats –even Woodrow Wilson–were not quite as fond of statist solutions…

    • glenn says:

      Yeah I agree on the extremes Horatiox. We are a center-right country. We have a constitution it isn’t perfect but it works and has worked better than ANY other country’s approach in history. We need to get back to that structure.

      The welfare state has created far more problems than it has solved and the idea that we should turn control over our health decisions, etc over to a bureaucrat is pretty crazy.

      It is also lunacy to apply laws differently amongst groups. It just doesn’t make sense, discrimination is discrimination regardless.

      We definitely need to improve our health system but you can’t exclude special interest groups in the reform (lawyers, unions, insurance companies, states, etc) in the solution. Legislatures need to man up, create a clear, clean and viable solution and sell it to the American people.

      This closed door, corrupt deals that are going on now are destined to fail and only hurt our country in the long-run.

      We need our elected “servants” to step up, check their arrogance and personal gains at the door and do the job of the people – if they don’t they will be TOAST this November regardless of party.

      Have you been listening to Obama, Gibbs, etc give their rationalizations on what happened with the Brown Revolution in MA? It is Baghdad Bob exemplified, seriously the arrogance is astounding and quite disturbing. You have to wonder if these people really believe that people are going to believe them. You can almost hear them saying…”pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!”

  23. horatiox says:

    Actually, Glennster, Obama’s bank tax appears to be fairly sound– one of his first real Democratic acts. And raising taxes on the ostentiously wealthy is hardly marxist. Most presidents, Demo or GOP at some time raise taxes (apart from Bushco). The Admin. also wants to limit risky trading/investment, and that’s not entirely misguided.

    That the stock market fell a few points doesn’t mean the sky’s falling either, except for the investor class. Besides, switch your bears to bulls and ride it as it crashes, dewd.

    • glenn says:

      Don’t be fooled by the little uptick today Horatiox. The market is toast. We will be in a long-drawn out bear market. We have a very long way to go before any of this turns around.

      Any increase in taxation in any form on any business or person will be disastrous for this economy or lack thereof.

      It is precisely the poor decisions this administration is making about our recovery that is going to cause a longer drawn bottoming out. There is no way to escape the piper on this one. Hopefully the truth will see the light of day and Paulson, Bernanke, etc…will have their day in court and we can to the exact level of depravity that has gone on with the Fed the last several years.

      This is a very bad time to be in the stock market. The smart money knows it…and the world knows it.

  24. horatiox says:

    Er, Bulls to bears.

    HuffPo commentary:
    http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/huffpost_expands_on_the_obama.php

    “””That bank-tax reported yesterday looks like it will be broader and tougher than initially reported.

    The Huffington Post quotes a senior administration official saying that Obama will institute a tax not only to recoup taxpayer losses on the bailouts but also to penalize too-big-to-fail institutions and get back some of the taxpayer subsidy inherent in guaranteeing these firms’ survival.

    That tax, if it’s steep enough, will incentivize banks to get smaller. It will be interesting to see how it’s structured—at what size the levy kicks in.

    And this is also important and new: It appears the administration, even if it’s not going to call for the reinstatement of a Glass-Steagall split between trading and banking, is going to slap penalties on casino-like activities”

    Yours in the Revolution, brutha!

    Perservere,

    Ho.

    • glenn says:

      This type of banking regulation will only cause further strain and more cash hoarding by the banks which will further strangle the life out of any of the green shoots we never seem to see only hear about.

      If they told us the truth we would see just how serious this is. Have you noticed they make broad brush statements when the market starts to tank and then 30-45 days later the revised numbers come out and they are much worse then we were lead to believe…but at that point it is old news.

      Just another scam of managing perceptions to stave off the inevitiable.

      Hyper-inflation is right around the corner and you watch this administration will claim the price increases are a sign of the economy rebounding!!!

      AYE YI YI!!!

  25. glenn says:

    See the latest polls…if Brown and Obama were in a presidential race…Brown would clean his clock…tells you something about what is really happening.

    • Joe Duck says:

      Glenn there’s no poll that shows Brown beating Obama! There’s a Zogby that suggests a “close race” if held today but that is meaningless. People are rightly frustrated with Obama’s enthusiastic support of the massive spending plans though so hopefully we’ll see some of the founders’ sensibilities shine through soon as D.C. figures out that people want small Govt AND smarter/smaller Military programs AND innovative capitalism AND moderate to progressive social policies, all of which cost less and are easy to implement.

      • glenn says:

        If Zogby said that…then they just are putting out that propoganda to hide the real poll results from someone else. If Zogby says a close race that means an Brown landslide. Zogby even had Coakley winning in MA.

        Nothing but another political arm of the progressive movement – trust nothing from Zogby.

  26. glenn says:

    Now Obama’s top priority for 2010…pass another stimulus bill…ah..er I mean a jobs bill.

    Does he really think the American people are that stupid?

    This guy doesen’t even have a clue…hope all you Obama voters are proud of what you have done to this country!

    Gee Obama says let’s use energy policy to combat climate change…or the GOP’s response…let’s use energy policy to lower your utility bill!!!

    This administration is completely out of touch.

  27. glenn says:

    yeah Fox is just a right wing propoganda machine…lol.

    How come year after year the analysis of their news coverage is fairly balanced but the other players are always in the tank for the Dem?

    http://www.mrc.org/press/releases/2010/20100127013023.aspx

  28. leland stamper says:

    Glenn, if the stock market is toast (29), and hyper-inflation is right around the corner (30), where will the hyper-inflation occur? Commodities?

    • glenn says:

      Hey LS…I think we will see a very strong wave of deep deflation during this year. 2010 is going to be our generations 1932. The DOW will take a very deep dive this year. I used think I was pessimistic thinking it would bottom at 3000 but I think that might even optimistic now.

      Nothing in the market currently has any basis with reality it is really going off the deep-end. This is scariest time I can remember regarding the market. If you haven’t gone long on your core by now…you probably should get out.

      In regard to hyper-inflation it is coming, it has to, you can’t print the money at the rate we are doing and not have this happen however the economy is really about production and the value of production which we are in trouble with. We moved a lot of our production off-shore (i.e. China) and we turned into this bogus consumption based economy and now are the lessons we have failed to learn in the past are coming home with a vengeance.

      If the recent “hidden” mortgage securities bail-out goes south we are looking at 15-20 trillion in exposure and our Congress pushed this deal through in the dark of the night and it is going to cost us at least 2.5 trillion just to get going with it – where are they going to get the money to fund it? – they are printing it. They could have purchased those securities at 30-40 cents on the dollar…yet these idiots thought we should pay 100%

      We need to take a serious step back and remember during Reagan everyone freaked out about 200 billion deficit we are now looking at 20-24 trillion in hole in the next few years – this is beyond insanity, beyond some enthusiastic support of spending. This is pure recklessness and dangerous decisions that are going to strap future generations in ways we cannot imagine.

      I think after the next few months the hyper-inflation scenario will start to become clearer unless of course they keep playing games trying to cloud the issue.

  29. Tommo says:

    “Handle affairs of state with as much care as if you were cooking a small fish. You spoil them with too much poking.”

    – Lao Tzu, loosely translated

  30. glenn says:

    It was interesting to listen to Obama the other night. Nobody in our government has any vision; nobody really wants to solve any of the issues. All they do is say things that people want to hear and then manipulate the result behind the scenes via special interests.

    Some people will applaud the statements about nuclear power but watch this admin will use the NRC to sabotage any real progress in the nuclear power effort. This gives the admin plausible deniability.

    We need true visionary leadership to take our country to the next level. Look at the political side of the climate scam…let’s pick one of the most abundant items in the universe and figure out how to tax and personally make billions!!!

    It is amazing how the decision process goes in DC. When are the people of this country and world going to say…ENOUGH ALREADY.

    Why not create real solutions to our problems?

    Let’s harness the most abundant element in the universe – HYDROGEN. You can create it, you can burn it, you can chemically react with it, etc…and it can be utilized and create almost zero pollution.

    There is a company now deploying 11 hydrogen filling stations down the east coast corridor. The stations generate their own supply of hydrogen and they are powered by solar. Self-sufficient, minimal maintenance, they don’t even require any staff or deliveries of fuel.

    Hydrogen cars are efficient and are virtually pollution free.

    The technology is here today, viable and affordable.

    Why not put hydrogen generation in every home in America? Power our homes with fuel cells and fill our cars right at home? Leverage solar power where viable.

    Why not take the hundreds of billions they are spending on bogus stimulus boondoggles and create modern nuclear power plants alongside desalination plants across the country?

    Why eliminate any need for oil, coal, etc.? Why not set a goal to make power “free” in America? Unlimited free power and there would be no stopping us. You could actually begin to solve problems like starvation and homelessness.

    But what do we get?

    Let’s use food to create fuel. RESULT: food prices double world-wide

    Let’s paint the entire roof on our buildings white!

    Let’s spend billions on a high-speed rail project between two cities where there is NO traffic problem.

    Let’s update our electric grid so the government can shut off your AC when they want to…not YOU!

    It is time to take our country back and really put some visionaries in place that have only one interest: solve the complex problems we face without worrying about special interests!

  31. leland stamper says:

    (34)Glenn, I don’t see hyperinflation occurring in a country that dominates the globe. Do you envision a military defeat in the near future? What do you think will multiply in dollar cost so fast that it will qualify as hyperinflation? Oil maybe?

    • glenn says:

      Sovereign insolvency.

      In what ways do you think the USA still dominates the globe?

      Do you think China, etc. are going to just let us off the hook when we can’t possibly pay back what we owe? When we go to pay it back (starting in less than 3 years) we will have to print a lot of money we just don’t have – that will continue to devalue the dollar.

      Producing is the only way to successfully navigate out of a recession, depression. It isn’t spending, spending is just creating another bubble, this time a monetary bubble – it will eventually pop.

      During WWII we became the production capacity for the military needs around the world. We didn’t have production destroy from bombings, etc. and we turned the long-term recession/depression around. It wasn’t because of spending that we solved the issue it was producing.

      That is why this administration has said…the reason FDR wasn’t more successful with the stimulus spending back then was because they just didn’t spend ENOUGH!

      Oil is an interesting only because we have been stupid enough not to learn from our past mistakes – it is completely outrageous that in 2010 we have any dependency on foreign oil. The writing has been on the wall for decades about this.

      I think it is too early to speculate on what commodities will becoming driving factors in hyper-inflation. I want to better understand the depth of the deflationary period we are entering and what exactly is going to continue to deflate. Those that are hit hardest with deflation will be the most volatile in the “bounce” back of equalization in prices, etc.

      For some reason people have confidence in Bernanke…I don’t see him as a solution here he is more of the same problem and quite frankly I really don’t think he knows what he is doing. His mistakes have been colossal so far.

      The reality is…there is nothing too big to fail.

      LS I am curious do you think we have hit bottom in the housing prices?

      • horatiox says:

        The commodity market under BushCo was a boomtown, especially in crude oil (as were oil stocks). That’s generally the case when a war kicks off. Of course it’s merely coincidence that Bush/Cheney and Co played golf with oil execs, took vacations in Hawaii together, attended sunday school together….

        That’s what’s great about speculation: as the supply of some vital resource like oil runs out, the price keeps going up, the bull markets roar, and the owners keep getting richer, at least until a VI Lenin and pals appear.

        A slight downturn is to expected. For that matter, the GOP generally brought about the mortgage crisis via de-reg (with help from centrist DINOcrats, and Billy Bob Clinton)

  32. leland stamper says:

    (37)The U.S. dominates the globe militarily, that’s why the U.S. dollar has value. China doesn’t have us “on the hook”, they are on our hook. Our money is fully backed with deadly force, the rest of the world is well aware of that. Housing costs in this country will continue to drop, I don’t see how they could not.

    • glenn says:

      Unfortunately the continued weakening of our resolve on the international front is only emboldening our enemies. Just look at the last year, we are losing credibility left and right.

      Do not underestimate Russia, China or their proxies – they know exactly what they are doing right now? We are in a more precarious position right now then we have in the past 100 years.

      The ole…Rodney King approach to foreign policy has been a dismal failure and even though we may have the technical capability to wage an effective war we have given our enemies (ALL OF THEM) a glimmer of hope and that is all they need to make things very painful for us.

      Look at where we are with Iran, DPRK, Russia, China, etc…it has been a disaster. Iran is freely and openly hanging 100’s of people guilty of protesting. It is a complete disgrace what our country has done to embolden the regime there. Thanks directly and specifically to Obama we are the laughing stock of the rest of world.

      Unfortunately careless voting here has consequences over there.

      There are other ways to bring a country down than just military although it will probably be our response in such a case. But that is the point isn’t it…this scenario pretty much ends up in global conflict it always has in the past.

    • glenn says:

      What do you think of the market now? 🙂

  33. leland stamper says:

    Glenn, articles like that (39) remind me of Howard Ruff or Jean Dixon. What do I think of the market now? Well if your hyperinflation scenario comes to pass, stock prices should be much higher as the dollar devalues. So it’s time to buy unless we wait for a 3000 Dow?

    • glenn says:

      China will be the dominant super power after all this is through…they have the biggest opportunity in front of them right now.

      We did very similar things during and after WWII and it were the leverage of our buying capability and the loans we offered to the other powers for rebuilding that paved the way for us to be the #1 super power.

      After everything that has happened the last 100 years the US has really squandered it’s opportunities to the right thing.

      No we will pay dearly for the arrogance in our government.

  34. glenn says:

    The truth behind the tea party movement…

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/03/tea-party-leaders-use-survey-to-hit-critics/

    I know the truth might be tough to swallow for some of you progressive types…after everything you believe in is based on a lie.

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