A tragic update. She was murdered: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/chelsea-king-murder-police-combing-grave-clues/story?id=9995419
Chelsea King was last seen out running in San Diego and this appears it may be a stranger abduction. Help the family find her: www.FindChelsea.com
There’s a lot of activity on Twitter and Facebook about this case so it may be a good test of whether those tools can be used effectively to spread the word fast on missing persons and bring them to safety in that critical short time frame immediately after abduction.
These tools may be used effectively, by intelligent people, and let’s hope they find her soon. Cali.’s full of creeps, that’s for sure, especially around urban areas (SD, LA, SF, etc).
Unfortunately, some people hearing about these tragedies switch into vigilante mode (not without some reason), and the tools–if not media itself–become a sort of hyper-paranoid APB. Anyone who looks “suspicious” might be reported.
The creepos and McChesters must be stopped, and I applaud your dedication to truth and justice. We shouldn’t forget the presumption of innocence clause, however. Imagine if some hysterical crimefighter reported an innocent person as the culprit here …JOE DUCK up on an Amber alert sign, and all your bio-ID material, license, flash a pic across web, or …TV etc….like something from a PK Dick novel–and that happens occasionally.
Agree with all of that Horatiox, and perhaps even more important is the fact that we pay a lot more attention to a case like this than the thousands of daily problems in our country and others that are far less sensational but equally tragic. Still, there is a neat kind of power of collective good that happens when communities rally to find missing kids like this, and I think the net effect is positive.
Not looking good, alas.
Yes, looks bad. As a parent it is hard to imagine what that must feel like. As a society member I remain upset that we assume rehab works for predators. Technology would allow us to track predators closely, and I support doing that in many cases.
Sad, and hopefully they got the right perp–but what if they didn’t???? Either way, the suspect (not the same as perp, really) has now had his name published across the Net, newspapers, tv: a trial-by-media. Those citizens who value Due Process might question whether newspapers, websites, tee-vee stations even have a right to accuse people (even people with “priors” as they say) of horrible crimes before they have been found guilty…
Valid point H, but (without much study of the topic) I think we’d find that “innocents accused” is a tiny fraction of “guilty going free”. We like to pretend a society can handle this balance perfectly but you could never do that.
Here in USA we err on the side of letting a LOT of criminals go free. This is usually in form of plea bargaining / diminished sentences. Then nutty criminal advocate folks whine that they are “imprisoned for crimes they did not commit” which is technically true but misleading since the real crimes were much worse.
Some perps may receive light/diminished sentences, but a wrongful conviction (especially for serious crime/felonies) outweighs a dozen light/early releases (most of the light sentences in CA are for drug-related crimes, anyway. Violent criminals are generally locked down).
Protecting the rights of the accused (or at least being aware of the issue) hardly rates as “nutty”–that’s the t Constitution. Better four guilty go free, than one innocent imprisoned, paraphrasing Jefferson.
Wrongful conviction: the dirty secret of the CA legal/court/police machine. There’s data/evidence to support that, JD, but not a very popular or PC subject.
Wrongful conviction: the dirty secret of the CA legal/court/police machine
Horatiox I’m very interested in this – I currently assume wrongful convictions are EXTREMELY rare – but I may change my mind with some data – any idea where to find data?
Here’s an interesting start: http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/351.php
Yes, but that’s merely a very small proportion of the humans wrongly convicted and imprisoned. Usually the cops don’t find DNA, sometimes no fingerprints, no circumstantial evidence–and always the possibility of evidence tampering/staging. The Shawshank Redemption is reality, for thousands.
It’s a rather ugly and overwhelming topic: trust me, upwards of 1/4 of those imprisoned (US with largest prison population in the world) are either innocent or subjected to malicious prosecution
Of course violent thugs and mobsters should be kept down , yet there’s a tendency to just say “lock ’em up” Then it’s someone you know, even a “professional”–or family member. And goes down in other countries as well. Most Americans are unaware (or choose to ignore) of the massive US prison bureaucracy.
Horatiox would you include in “malicious prosecution” a case where it was pretty clear that a person had done a bunch of bad crimes but they could only convict based on technicalities of a lesser crime? Sort of an Al Capone situation.
Have you seen any data about this? Until I see some hard facts I’m sticking to my assumption that there are very few innocents in prison.
Hey, have you just been reading too much Alexandre Dumas ?
Come on Horatiox your government can do no wrong…seriously with all that taxpayer money they collect there is no reason they would ever get this stuff wrong. Seriously Horatiox the government is the answer to everything!
Come on this perp should have never been on the streets to begin with. Some liberal prosecutors and liberal judges in the fruit and nut capital of the world Cali…let this guy off and back out on the streets so he could strike again.
Sorry but sexual offenders cannot be rehabilitated there is no reason any of them should be allowed out in public – PERIOD. The father should be given the option of putting a slug in this scumbags head. There is no reason we should have to worry about our children getting molested and killed why they are out running.
We need a criminal justice system, not a criminals justice system.
Rare, but not extremely rare.
“Bleeding heart” topics don’t generally affect me, but when you read that someone–even a gangster-type–who’s resided on death row or in a max. security hellhole for a decade or two was EXONERATED by DNA, or other means, well…..it’s an outrage.
Wrongful conviction via “sex crimes” occurs at times as well (I’m not denying, however, there are a lot of pervs who deserve harsh punishment….):
What is it with CA. and sexual deviants and whackos.
Why is California full of those types….Anyone….anyone?
John it has been a while since I looked at the stats but Florida is in a similar boat…it is more of an issue of population size.
CA, NY, TX and FL have very large populations so there are more scumbags in with the good.
However CA and NY have very liberal courts and prosecutors which doesn’t help the situation.
I never understood how any “group” could support pedophiles…but look at our school safety czar…who would have ever thought a person with his history would EVER be let near children let alone be responsible for safey of children in schools.
Part of this is simply that CA is the largest state.
Assuming same whackos per capita you’d have 10x the incidents in CA as OR.
John wondering how this stuff happens…check out Obama’s latest judge pick. This is a disgrace. How could someone even think this guy is a good choice.
Welcome to the perpetual opposite day.
First generalization of the mornin’. The highest ratios of prisoners to population would be in the South, anyway. Texas outdoes even Cali. in terms of emerging police-state.
I agree Glennster, that at times the Black Robe posse (i.e., the judiciary, and their cronies in probation, police) releases deviants and perps too soon and endangers communities. That’s due to overcrowded prisons for one. Not enough funds to pay for more prisons, thanks to Ahhnuld. A few small tax raises would solve that.
My point however is that even if the suspect in this horrible crime is the real perp (which you don’t know), he’s already been put on trial by the media and found guilty. Even if he’s acquitted he’s now associated with the crime.
Something like that happened a few years ago with the Benet case. A tragedy as well, but nearly as tragic was pinning the crime on innocent people (at least innocent of the murder of the girl), broadcasting their faces/names on network TV, newspapers, etc.
Well the media is nightmare anyway…we have proof of that with their continued support of our liar-in-chief. We have the twinkie defense, the depends on what the definition of is – is and of course the old time fav – i was abused as a kid its not my fault…all made glorious by the secular progressive media!
But you are right the prison situation is nuts, it makes no sense what we put people in jail for (i.e. drug use, petty crap) and we let these deviants out on the street.
It has been proven time and time again that our judicial system is horribly corrupt and that starts at the top (SCOTUS).
We need to drop ALL of our laws and start over it is really an uncontrollable mess. We can’t have justice adjusting “the terms” based on an individuals background – it is supposed to be blind for a reason so everyone is treated equally in the system. That goes both ways…past descrimination was wrong and current descrimination in the form of social justice is wrong too.
Plus we need to drastically change our prison facilities, they are too costly, provide WAY TOO much to the inmates, etc.
Agree that trial by media is a problem, though I’m not convinced it’s a big one. We hear about most of the cases where that happens because it’s a scary prospect. We don’t hear about most of the millions or reasonable prosecutions and incarcerations because those are just biz as usual. But… I’m open to data here. I’d guess that of the people in prison less than 1/1000 are “nice and innocent”. The “malicious prosecution” is the wildcard, because you’d want the DA to go after some people even if he can’t get them on the worst crime of many they are likely to have committed.
Our society really frowns on wrongful convictions and there are a lot of resourced to help, so I just don’t see how there could be huge numbers of folks languishing in prison who are innocent.
You know Joe the real problem here is the obvious big elephant in the room.
Pretty much you could have predicted this outcome.
Girl abducted by perv who was once in custody but let out because of liberal prosecution, etc…
How many more daughters have to face this future before we just say enough is enough? This is one of those areas where the history and facts around these continued atrocities are pretty much black & white.
Sexual predators should not be allowed out in public PERIOD. This scenario keeps repeating itself over and over again. Nobody should have to fear sexual predators whether in your neighborhood or the workplace…we need ZERO tolerance.
Yes, if they got the right perp, then he should pay mightily–even death penalty. One might argue the parole/prison officials who released him, or didn’t monitor him correctly should pay as well.
But you DON’T KNOW they got the right perp, Glennster, and in effect deny the suspect Due Process rights. So, until he’s found guilty, we should avoid presuming he’s guilty.
For that matter, the trial process itself is not science. With emotions high, and vigilantes calling for revenge, it’s unlikely any suspect will get a fair trial, especially if he’s poor and can’t afford some hotshot defense attorney.
Btw, Mr Duck it’s not only about 1/1000 in prisons who are actually innocent. Move the decimal place two places to left, for starters.
Point is…that guy that is out on the streets shouldn’t be.
Sexual predators cannot be reformed. People that are that sick don’t deserve to impede the freedom of others.
But I agree on the process…people must be innocent until proven guilty.
What was the happiest moment of your life? The saddest?