Climate Common Sense: Adapt

Another wonderfully insightful, common sense, non-alarmist discussion from Bjorn Lomborg in his “Cars, Bombs, and Climate Change

If we are to have a constructive dialogue about the smartest policy responses to global warming, we need to replace our fixation on far-fetched, Armageddon scenarios with realism about the true costs of dealing with this challenge.

Following are MY views, not Lomborg’s:

It’s clear to me that we have probably never seen in the history of science so much officially sanctioned alarmist nonsense as we have with climate change.   It’s not that there is no threat – there is a threat – it’s just that the climate issues  are very likely of less consequence than far more pressing catastrophic issues such as nuclear proliferation, possible economic collapse, and most importantly poverty and health conditions in many parts of the developing world – conditions that will at least in the short term require fossil fuels to help.

Perhaps even more importantly it’s absurd to think that China will “go along” with the developed world with respect to CO2 reductions.   They won’t and it’s naive to think this will change with any types of political pressure.

THEREFORE, we need to be thinking of ways to do the following:

1. Help solve pressing issues such as our own economic challenges, global instability, and continued massive poverty in undeveloed regions.    Working to modify some crazy trade barriers is a good start as well as strategic redirection of defense spending to actually provide for our defense rather than raise the stakes as so far has been done during the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama war spending sprees (in fairness Obama cannot yet be blamed for his massive spending.   His new policies may work or they may not – we don’t have enough data.  I would argue that the policies of the past failed to achieve a positive return on the massive investments).

More about military spending … later …

In the meantime we need to be adapting to climate change.   Luckily that’s not all that difficult.    Today I have already adapted to a temperature change of  about 50 degrees F.      Since the best estimates of global warming say we’ll have about a HUNDREDTH  of that temperature change happening in the next decade , I’m pretty sure I can keep the family alive.    If you want suggestions just send a self addressed stamped envelope to “Joe’s Climate Advice”, Talent, Oregon.

134 thoughts on “Climate Common Sense: Adapt

  1. You truly hate people that work hard! LOL. When are you going to finally learn the answer is not to punish those that work…but to punish those that don’t! Horatiox what are you going to do when you run out of other people’s money? It is you just don’t think you could ever rise to the level to make a few million bucks for yourself – so screw everyone else that sacrifices everything to get there?

    As I have said since the AGW debate began many years ago the obvious solution is adaptation, always has been the solution, always will be the solution.

    No government program or tax, or green economy is going to do anything to help with that.

    The first thing we need to do is lower costs of everything in this country but with the unconstitutional rulers we have in Congress and on Penn Ave…we will never see that…utility costs and gas are going to sky rocket over the next several years because of their inhumane and illegals programs and stupid ideas.

    If you want to understand climate and actually understand it so manage it…then we need to terraform another planet until we technically able to do that…we don’t have a clue about climate here on earth – arrogant human piss-ants.

    PS – Did you see the new study that shows that people that “go green” in Al Gore fashion are the meanest and most unethical people on the planet?

  2. Did they work hard, or did they just hit it big at the casino? (hint: latter). I wager even you, Glennster, know more about computer science and/or code than a Jobs or Meggy W-man. Meg’s just an MBA-exec type–not a programmer, not an engineer of any sort (and really not fit for political office).

    Whitman’s a billionaire merely because she sells more product than anyone on e-bay (e-bay’s practices themselves questionable, and monopolistic). Meg’s a great used-car Sales-person.

    And btw most of the Founding fathers were opposed to aristocracies and financial schemes as well, and favored estate taxes, for one. That doesn’t mean they were “social-eests” in teabagger-speak.

    • Horatiox is the one that went for the taxes for Al Gore BS…not me…I just responded.

      I haven’t seen Beck since last year…I will check it out.

      Have you seen the Red Eye videos Joe? They are hillarious.

    • Keep in mind that Miss Whitman and her supporters consider Arnold Schwarzenegger too liberal and object to Ahhnuld’s few attempts at environmental protection.

      Schwarzenegger did sign California’s climate change program into effect in 2006. Miss Whitman wants to do away with the program–on most issues they’re pretty close however, and both Ueber-wealthy, tho’ Miss Whitman does have the support of Mitt Romney. The Mittster, Glennster! United States of LDS, y’all

      • Yeah I am sure you are 100% behind ole Jerry Brown…Cali Uber Alles! Woo hoo. I think I will side with Biafra on this one.

        “We’re going to attack whenever we can, but I’d rather have you attack,” Brown said at a gathering of the California delegation of the Laborers’ International Union of North America in Sacramento. “I’d rather be the nice guy in this race. We’ll leave [the attacks] to … the Democratic Party and others.”

        Tucker Bounds, a spokesman for GOP candidate Meg Whitman, said Brown’s pitch was unseemly and perhaps even illegal.

      • Heh. Whatever happened to Jello? Hopefully he hasn’t like joined the Lieberdems. Either way, Jerry Moonbeam or Davis were hardly as incompetent as Schwarzenegger (and AS has taken out more in loans, which he attacked Davis for). I don’t really care for Jerry, but he’s superior to Megazilla, or the other silicon rightist–and Brown unlike the GOPers has a decent environmental record. Or, it may come to…supporting old Mr. DFV (Don’t F-ing Vote)

      • Anyway, Megzilla’s more of the same of Schwarzenegger, Glennster–the New Worlds’ gang favorite candidate.

        Of course many demopublicans, like NWs like Meg too! For mormon-nazi molesters, like B-ronius, it doesn’t get better than Megzilla or Ahhnuld.

      • I don’t like any of them…Cali has evolved into trail mix…one half is fruits and nuts and the other half are a bunch of flakes!

        Meg’s views on gun control make her far too liberal for me.

        But alas…change is coming Horatiox and it is coming in like a hurricane…in just a few short months everything is going to change in this country.

      • Meg Whitman represents the new sort of corporate liberal, Glennster, like the New Worlds gang–Demopublicans. They’re not traditional, New Deal demos, nor are they GOP, pro-NRA, small govt. types (as Poizner is, to some degree–). Feinstein also in that Demopublican class (and yes, they are all anti-NRA, and very fond of security measures, PatAct, etc. Snitch-o-crats). They also love their Al Gore style eco-bureaucracy.

        They’re not really aware of Constitutional issues either,–as with the moron B-ronius on New Worlds, who simply calls anyone not in Demos “criminal” (funny, if you knew his delusional, criminal nature). No need for debate–whatever Nancy Pelosi says is…Twooth! He forgets that even the demo health care proposals favor the insurance biz (a simple upgrade of Medicare could work..but far too easy).

        How easy to do politics when you can just whine about the opposition and never bother with rational discussion. Pathetic–and anti-intellectual in a sense. Even the traditional liberals–Jefferson for one–esteemed Reason, and considered it sort of essential to democracy.

  3. Well that is the core of the problem now Horatiox…ideology trumps all. It’s downright criminal.

    If they pass this debacle this weekend things are going to get very nasty and it all could be avoided.

    Obama will go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever elected.

    • Worst Presidents? Glenn it’s hard to imagine what you’d say if Obama had actually failed at something (aside from massive spending, a very legit concern. But we need massive military cuts first, and that’s not going to happen because of the Tea Party folks who stupidly rant about trivial nothing spending while we waste much of the military budget on things that bring less security).

      Obama: Obviously too early to say but the results so far are remarkable:

      Economy stabilizing after potential catastrophe.

      * Most banks to repay all bailout money (a story that should be headlines, but does not suit the naive agendas of tea partiers, left wing, or even mainstream folks. Geitner’s plan is not completed, but appears to have been masterful.

      * No major terror attacks in US or even internationally.

      * Iraq improving.

      * Afghanistan unclear, but early signs of improvement.

      Aside from the reasonable criticism that we just bought our way out of all this with massive spending, what’s your beef?

      We should have balanced these budgets with massive military and entitlement cuts, but the Tea Party raving fringe combines with the Democratic spendthrifts and won’t allow that obvious solution.

      Without massive military spending cuts, we have a completely unsustainable spending pattern. Until the fools that pretend to be conservative recognize this totally obvious fact, the US remains economically challenged.

      • Glenn in my book you lose a lot of points if you quote Glenn Beck’s lunatic ranting about socialists behind the curtains. Where the HECK was BECK when the economy was falling apart under GW’s early massive spending plans?

  4. Joe it isn’t worth responding to. All the things you thought Obama was going to do…all the things you kept defending Obama during the campaign you were dead wrong.

    It is time you just admit that you are secular progressive and that is all that really matters to you.

    You have lost so many points about Obama…it is at the point of absurdity.

    1) You were sure he would show his birth certificate
    2) You were sure he would govern from the middle
    3) You were sure he wouldn’t spend us into oblivion
    4) You were sure he would bring the country together
    5) You were sure he would fix everything internationally.

    WRONG ON ALL COUNTS. We will be lucky if this doesn’t end in civil war.

    If you still support Obama after all this – there is no hope for you. I just hope when you look your grand children in the face you have the courage to tell them just how foolish and naive you were back in the day.

    Ideology trumps all Joe…hope you are having fun watching the progressives implode in this country – all this hope and change is going to bring such a backlash it is truly going to suck in this country for a couple more decades at least.

    Too bad people didn’t have the courage to vote for middle of the road. Too bad people didn’t actually take the time to learn the facts. Too bad people are so weak they need a media source that will decide for them.

    It is mind numbing how you defend Obama it is like you are brainwashed or something…just bizarre.

    • Glenn if you go back to blog posts I think you’ll see I didn’t say I was “sure” of any of those, but more importantly they are not key items – policies are the key items and that’s what you need to look at.

      You are correct that SPENDING is a HUGE problem, which was my whole point of the post. However all your other points are NOT about Obama, they are a reflection of the fact that the right has consistently tried to undermine those efforts. I’m not clear if Obama would really have compromised much if the right had played ball, but they never have played ball. You are a great example of this. You have *never* acknowledged anything positive from Obama even if it was exactly the policy you would have recommended (e.g. keeping Petraeus, keeping Gates as Secty of Defense). In your world it’s impossible for Obama to do anything right, so obviously you’ll *always* say “see, Obama’s wrong”. Not based on what he does, but based on your advocacy position that “whatever Obama does is wrong”. You see your job as undermining Obama rather than seeking truth.

      It should not be a tribal thinking game here. I voted for Obama but I’m strongly against most of his massive spending plans. ‘m strongly in favor of his global vision that wants to focus on respecting other cultures and other people and seeking more nonviolent solutions. I’m unimpressed with health care, confident it’ll bring minor improvements at huge deferred cost (as do most government “solutions”).

      But the idea I reject TOTALLY is that Obama is unpatriotic and undermining democracy. That’s a dangerous idea

  5. You recite the very same verbiage the progressives spew about their opponents Joe. Wake up you are being used.

    The tea party is fringe? Isn’t that the exact same thing the Dem operatives are saying? What are you programmed?

    Glenn Beck is a lunatic? How so, exactly what has Glenn Beck said that was wrong? Glenn Beck has presented information that is not being covered by NBC, CBS, CNN? Only progressives are afraid of Beck and only because progressives cannot stand the light of day just like the Nazi’s couldn’t. No difference in the end they result in the same mess. Extermination of people they don’t like and the enslavement of everyone else.

    Even CNN is now calling Obama a liar and yet you could never do that. How could your idols like Soro’s, Podesta, Gore all be wrong?

    You ignore just who these people really are. You should spend some time and learn the truth about their family backgrounds, their histories and just look at the atrocities they have been part of. A digusting lot that you look up to. UNBELIEVABLE.

    Oh yeah their backgrounds and past don’t matter…because they are progressives. Since the progressives have an agenda that is based on deceit we can’t possibly think good honest people would further it. Wake up Joe.

    • Glenn it’s pointless arguing with you because you generally make the case that there is a lot of mysterious horrible activity going on behind the curtain that will *some day* result in a catastrophic meltdown of American democracy. I don’t even think you actually believe that, but if you do you are guilty of the same gullibility we saw from liberals under GW who felt that the patriot act would undermine the USA, lead to Bush staying in office, etc, etc. It’s all nonsense. We have a stable, vibrant democracy that works in a remarkable and peaceful – though often very inefficient way. It’s very alarming to me when you talk about civil war because violence from the right would be an effort to undermine democracy in the most profound way imaginable, which is invoking the will of a minority by force rather than reason / voting / legal demonstrations. This is one of the few ways we really could see a catastrophic outcome from the current tensions.

      • What has Glenn Beck ever stated on his tv show that was wrong?

        You were sure Joe that Obama was going to reduce military spending – he is spending more than Bush.

        You say we have progress in Afghanistan yet you leave out the main point – more soldiers have died in the box since Obama was President than the past 8 years combined. Somehow that is progress to you?

        Obama violated the US Constitution with the GM bailout – to subvert core contract law in this country by raping the bond holders of their secure position and making the union whole with their non-secure position was completely illegal…yet somehow that escapes you.

        Why don’t you look at the facts?

        Why do you like, listen and look up to people that want to destroy our country?

  6. Joe the point that you make about the economy stabilizing only demonstrates that you are the gullible one.

    We are now experiencing a zombie market sooner or later it will be shot and put to rest. It is inevitable.

    If you had a basic understanding of economics or how our Fed monetary system and our markets are supposed to work you would know these guys are way out on a limb and have never been in this territory before and somehow you think the very same people that did quite a bit to put us here are somehow magically going to be able to figure out through more tricks and deceit on how to get out.

    The market fundamentals are not talking points, they are facts, it is easy to find them and understand them and if you took 30 minutes of your own time and researched the fundamentals you would see the current markets are completely dysfunctional, unstable and we are teetering on disaster every single day. We are far from being out of the woods and even farther away from the bottom.

    You don’t seem to get that every little game they are playing right now is for one thing…to create perception and stave off the fallout until past the next elections.

    Wake up…watch us lose our AAA very soon…this market is toast and so is our economy for many years to come.

    When they pass the illegal healthcare scam it will only accelerate and further erode our economic stability.

  7. What you keep propping up Joe…

    “I think that the president and Nancy Pelosi get credit,” Sharpton said. “I think this began the transforming of the country the way the president had promised. This is what he ran on.”

    And if that transformation is socialism, then so be it, he explained. That is what the American public “overwhelmingly” voted for.

  8. Joe watch what happens now…Dems will start making statements that the opposition must be controlled, silenced now that healthcare has passed.

    Oh yeah that’s right you are a big supporter of things like the fairness doctrine…yet you won’t admit you are a progressive.

    This is not going to end well.

  9. Sadly, I agree the health care plan’s mostly a freaking disaster (even Kucinuch nearly voted nay, until they paid him off), and what’s more the freaking disaster will cost US taxpayers $940 billion. Only the most shallow, uninformed DINOcrats would approve of this plan, which is in effect a type of health-insurance liability requirement for the poor. For most workers who have insurance it’s not a big deal, but the plan mandates that citizens MUST buy a h-c policy, or face penalties, and there are other problems. It’s a sweetheart deal for the health-care insurance companies.

    • And you know Horatiox the communists aka democrats know their reform bill is going to be declared unconstitutional. There response to that will be the public option – there they fixed it…


      • Actually, Glennster, including some public option type of reforms would have been preferable (and Medicare itself is a public option, and a New Deal plan, which even most sane GOPers support–). That’s why you error in believing Obama to be a leftist or …red. This is a corporate deal, all the way. Actually I agree with a few things that I have read (like ending the ban on pre-existing conditions–).On the whole, however, it looks like a ….Swindle, with a capital Ssss.

  10. They just support “the new deal”, etc…because it helps them get elected.

    None of those programs are sustainable and they are the roots of many of the fiscal problems plaguing our country overall.

    People need to fix their own problems not relying on other people’s money.

    The only good news about this disaster, after the dust settles and the blood is washed from the streets most of the progressive agenda will eventually be repealed and we will once again go back to being a free country.

    Socialists should move to some other failing country if they prefer that model – no reason to destroy success here with BS PC.

  11. Actually, you should approve of the h-c plan, if you’re pro-business, Glennster. It’s a corporate, pro-insurance company plan–they jettisoned the public option (and few Demos said anything)–even supply-side deal I would say (ie, the insurance companies benefit, there are tax deals for businesses, etc). Even a few Repugs support it.

    • Your missing a key point in all of this Horatiox…until the government cleans out the corruption I don’t want them doing anything.

      They are stealing our money!

      I think we need reform but I would much rather a return to what insurance is supposed to be for – disasters, I would like to see patients negotiating their own terms privately with their doctors, paying for their office visits, etc.

      Disaster insurance should be available from any company in any state. It is all the corruption and BS deals these lawmakers have created that has caused this entire problem and don’t think for a second that they didn’t do all of this just to create this mess so they could force a government solution.

      What government programs have ever come in on time, on budget?

    • And Horatiox I am only pro-biz from the stand point of the gov’t making sure we are not hindered. I don’t know any hardworking honest businessman that appreciates a payoff from the government.

      In fact it would be great to close all corporations that have received profit and gov’t contracts from lobbying.

      We should outlaw it.

      The gov’t should slam any business that breaks the law and the people should be held accountable.

      Let the market decide otherwise.

      Companies should flourish because they have providing a worthwhile effective product and/or service that people are willing to pay for.

      No company should benefit because they have a union or paid into a political campaign.

      That is where our country has gone very wrong.

      • Why do you uphold all these anti-government, free market ideas, Glennster? Is it because you think that will best advance your interests, or for some other…reason.

        In other words, if your views are basically utilitarian , then obviously many people will disagree on what policies are best for them. Some low-income people might benefit from govt. programs. The wealthy probably won’t.

        Many teabaggers don’t merely approach politics from “bang for the buck”, however. They base their politics on moral or religious factors. It’s not just that Obama and Pelosi’s views are wrong, but…BO’s Lucifer, and Pelosi’s the great Whore of Babylon, etc.

  12. And you know Horatiox this is not going to end well. They will shove so much socialist legislation down our throats now.

    They have nothing to lose. People are going to revolt in this country.

    The overwhelming majority of Americans reject this crap.

    • Depends on the demographics you look at. Obama obviously won the vote (both popular and electoral), so some Americans do support his ideas, including those on health-care. Unfortunately many teabaggers tend to mistake their own political interests and goals with the interests and goals of the population at large.

      • What polls are you reading?

        He got elected on many campaign promises…which he hasn’t kept.

        People are furious with Obama especially on the left.

        CNN, MSNBC, Gallup, Rasmussen, etc…ALL HAVE VERY TELLING POLLS that show America fully rejects this reform bill. This isn’t even close.

        Only 11% approve of Congress…do you realize what happens in countries when that happens and they ignore what the mass majority wants?

        We have some very dark days ahead of us.

        And Obama would not win even against McCain if the election were held today.

        Of course people like the LA Times would blame that on racism. No it is just a hatred of socialism…plain and simple.

      • Polls? Depends on which one. Im sure Fox polls show a majority against hc-reform. KOS probably shows a majority in favor (and that was the case last fall in most polls)–but here’s a better question– is a show of hands (ie a poll) even meaningful, Glennster?

        A majority of people at Walmart might agree that, say, Shapeshifting Illuminati from Draco control the Trilateral Commission (and world politics), but that don’t make it right, G.

    • Though to be honest, most liberals, at least the stupid sort, do that as well: they mistake their own preferences, political vision, interests with the public’s. They’ll bless Darwinism, deny any and all ethical objectivity (what is “Good” to a Darwinist anyway? about what a gazelle is to a lion…), or religious considerations, and then a few moments later offer their latest moralistic belch on what should be done politically. One clown, “Moe-Harbor” aka on New Worlds does this ad nauseum.

      The problems are much worse then most realize, Glennster. Like widespread psycho-pathology, if not psychosis–Nietzsche’s…Herd mind.

  13. Let me get this straight. They’ve passed a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn’t understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn’t read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president that also hasn’t read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that’s broke.

    What the heck could possibly go wrong?

  14. And yet Joe you believe these clowns…the CBO admits their estimate of jobs saved, etc by the stimulus has NOTHING to do with the actual performance of the economy. What a joke!!!

    If a meteorologist was asked what the day’s high temperature had been, would it be acceptable to simply repeat his/her earlier forecast? Of course not. The forecast was merely a prediction, which should now be replaced with what actually happened.

    Yet that is the approach the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) used when declaring that the stimulus had saved 1.5 million jobs. Rather than actually examine the performance of the post-stimulus economy, it essentially re-released its old forecast that the stimulus would likely create jobs.

    CBO Confirms Its Methodology

    In a recent speech to the National Association of Business Economics, CBO Director Doug Elmendorf confirmed this by stating:

    [W]e don’t think one can learn much from watching the evolution of particular components of GDP [gross domestic product] over the last few quarters about the effects of the stimulus … so we fall back on repeating the sort of analysis we did before. And we tried to be very explicit about it that it is essentially repeating the same exercise we did rather than an independent check on it.[1]

  15. Horatiox bonus points for this one!

    A majority of people at Walmart might agree that, say, Shapeshifting Illuminati from Draco control the Trilateral Commission (and world politics), but that don’t make it right, G.

    • You think I jest, but many teabaggers consider Shapeshifters responsible for the world’s political problems. And the code of the Shapeshifter is not unknown among …mormons, or the usual biblethumping conservatives.

      When Hillary’s pupils start to look lizardy…well run.

      • so biblethumping is ok as long as it comes from a rascist, america hating rev wright type?

      • Non sequitur #50008934 (approx.), Glennster.

        Do you or don’t you believe in…Shapeshifters, G?

  16. Glenn give some URLs for all these polls you see showing overwhelming anti-Obama sentiments. Are you watching FOX again? You obviously can’t get anything objective from a Hannity phone poll because his viewers are … different … from average people. The FOX official election style polls are usually fine, ie scientifically sampled.

    The real polls show Americans about split on HC reform, though trending to support now that the battle is over. They show Obama still fairly popular, though less so than after election.

    • I listed the polls Joe…Gallup which has always been Obama leaning, Rassmussen which has been proven the most accurate…there are tons.

      You either can’t admit to the public that you are a Marxist or you just don’t realize you are.

      You cannot try to call yourself a fiscal conservative when you still support the Marxists taking over our country. Go to….double those numbers that is where we will be in 10 years…ALREADY WITH THE COMMITTMENTS made by the Marxist Obama….doesn’t include Obamacare and doesn’t include all the NEW spending that will happen.

      Our country is going to be left in ruins because of this. This isn’t about posting a weasley apology to your kids because “your” generation is spending their money…this is about the biggest theft in the history of the world and as long as you continue to support it…you are part of it.

      Keep watching CNN whose ratings are so low now they are even beat by the Cartoon Network.

      Obama’s bounce in the polls is sqaurely from his liberal base. Conservatives and independents overwhelmingly disapprove of him.

    • Joe the battle is far from over…watch what happens in this country…you are a drone that gladly drinks their kool-aid.

  17. And once again Joe…you spew the Marxist talking points…

    The real polls show Americans about split on HC reform, though trending to support now that the battle is over. They show Obama still fairly popular, though less so than after election.

    That is right from the DNC emails…seriously Joe do you think people can’t figure this stuff out?

    The bounce comes entirely from increased enthusiasm among Democrats. Today, 60% of Democrats Strongly Approve while only 9% Strongly Disapprove. A week ago, those figures were 46% Strongly Approve and 14% Strongly Disapprove.

    Among Republicans, the President’s Approval Index was at -66 a week ago and is the same today. Among voters not affiliated with either major party, the President’s Approval Index rating was -25 a week ago and -26 today.

    So once again you have claimed you are fiscal conservative, independent…but you are clearly not Joe.

    Obamacare should be renamed….The Declaration of Dependence.

  18. Joe here is so more kool-aid you can drink to boost your ongoing delusions.

    New claims for unemployment benefits fell more than expected last week as layoffs ease and hiring slowly recovers.

    The Labor Department said first-time claims dropped by 14,000 to a seasonally adjusted 442,000. That’s below analysts’ estimate of 450,000, according to Thomson Reuters.

    But most of the drop resulted from a change in the calculations the department makes to seasonally adjust the data, a Labor Department analyst said.

    If they didn’t mess with the numbers and play their games (that Clinton supercharged when it comes to unemployment) if would dropped 4,000 and unexpected claims would still be higher than estimates. WHAT A FARCE!!!

    You need to stop smoking that hydro Oregon Gold.

    BTW Joe just as in Marxist DNC fashion you immediately attack Fox. How is it that Fox gets everything wrong but MSNBC, CBS, NBC and CNN never do? Objective analysis and studies have clearly shown that the media bias is heavily favored toward Obama and Fox time and time again comes out as the most fair and balance network. I still have huge problems with Murdoch but that doesn’t mean Fox isn’t even handed in their coverage.

    As for Hannity, etc…I don’t watch those shows and the only time I am ever exposed to those opinion shows is when I see a youtube clip or something.

  19. Joe have you done the analysis on the Obamacare bill. Do you realize the amount of spending authorized but not mandated in the bill?

    Do you know why they do that?

    So the CBO doesn’t have to count it in their estimates.

    Do you really think that money that is authorized to be spent in the bill but not mandated won’t actually be spent?

    It amounts to 100’s of billions of spending that is deliberately being hidden. How is that right? How is that transparent and honest? How is that integrity?

    But let me guess…regardless of the consequences we must pass healthcare…the end justifies the means. Ideology must prevail…we must convert to marxism before it is too late!!!

    What a bunch of horse hockey…this is taking us to civil war. Oh wait…you can’t say that or now you are a racist too! Only in America can you be against marxism and still be called a racist.

  20. Sen. Max Baucus (D): “Too often, much of late, the last couple three years the mal-distribution of income in America is gone up way too much, the wealthy are getting way, way too wealthy, and the middle income class is left behind. Wages have not kept up with increased income of the highest income in America. This legislation will have the effect of addressing that mal-distribution of income in America.”

    He is a marxist…if you support healthcare then you are a marxist as well. This is little to do with healthcare but to do everything with a very different agenda. Either you just don’t get it…or you really do support forced wealth redistribution.

    It isn’t right in any way shape or form. It is theft.

  21. What does medicare have to do with this health reform bill except they are taking away from it?

    Why do you want to distract from the fact that this healthcare reform is part of the marxist overthrow of our country? They have gotten so cocky now they are wide open about it…Americans will reject marxism with a vengence. Only the arrogant fools in the DNC would actually be stupid enough to try this.

    • Medicare was considered socialist by many when implemented by the FDR admin. Now, it’s not, and even most conservatives support it, Glennster.

      The HCR’s not that socialist. It’s aimed towards the insurance companies; ie the mandated care’s not like VA, or Medicare, but just allows for cheaper premiums, lowers the barriers, ends the ban on pre-existing conditions (do you think they should keep it, G?). Many of the conservatives protesting it don’t really understand it, so resort to the name calling and rabble-rousing.

      Really, Glennster when you just dismiss a political plan or policy by name-calling (ie that’s marxism, or socialism!), you’re no better than the irrational, emotionally-driven liberals or leftists chanting “tea-bagger!” every 10 minutes (like the daily liberal hissy-fits on New Worlds…even an insult to intelligent leftists). One should point out the specific proposals or policies one disagrees with, provide reasons, facts, etc… But that would ruin the blog par-tay for teabaggers and the hysteria-crats as well.

      • They are Marxists Horatiox…if you don’t want to admit it that is fine. They are linked directly with Marxists; they are applauded by the Marxists.

        Sometimes it is what it is. Obama likes to manipulate words and Alynski the folks but it doesn’t take much effort to find the truth.

        Medicare is socialist as was nearly everything FDR did. Anything the socialists try is not sustainable and that is the problem. We should NEVER implement anything that isn’t sustainable…it never works out and for one reason eventually you run out of other people’s money.

        Healthcare needs to be changing Horatiox but no socialist or Marxist approach is going to solve anything. Why do you think nearly all leaders in socialist countries come here? If this was so great why are the staffers who actually worked on the bill and no it inside and out exempted from it. Seriously you would have to be an idiot not to understand that speaks volumes about the quality of this.

        This was all started with the HMO crap that the Dems jammed down the Americans throats decades ago.

        Insurance is not and was never intended nor designed to be the end-all pay for everything solution. Insurance of any type when properly implemented, rated and allowed to be sold in ANY state is to cover your ass if a catastrophe strikes. THAT IS IT. If our healthcare insurance companies were actually allowed to compete in EVERY state and only offer coverage for catastrophic events – everyone could afford it, everyone would have it and no one would have to worry about it.

        Your health conditions, their treatment, etc. is between you and your doctor and NO ONE else – you would have to be a complete fool to think it is a good idea to let a progressive near your health information.

        Social security, Medicare, etc. are bankrupt and they need to be eliminated. We need to move people off the government’s back and get the government off our backs.

        HCR is the equivalent of the disastrous Dem’s Kansas Nebraska act and unfortunately we are going to end up in the same place.

        Next you will tell me that calling someone a Marxist is racist. It isn’t name calling when it is the truth.

        I don’t understand why so many people are afraid of responsibility, self-reliance, excellence, achievement, etc. They called if the Declaration of Independence for a reason…now HRC will forever be known as the Declaration of Dependence.

      • Did you see the billion dollar non-cash charge off AT&T dropped today?

        You just don’t understand how this disaster is going to rip into our fragile economy.

        This legislation is hurting and is going to hurt many businesses…some right out of existence.

        Given the state of the economy this will go down in history as one of the most arrogant stupid pieces of legislation ever even conceived.

      • Medicare is socialist as was nearly everything FDR did.

        Nixon and Reagan supported it, as did most GOPers, even McCaint. Are they socialists as well, G? Nyet.

        The HCR allows employees to choose between competing insurance providers at some point–another reason to call it a …corporate bill. And let’s not forget that Romney’s bill in Mass. was nearly identical to this bill. You just have been drinking from the “Dems are marxists” kool-aid at the tea-bag party. It’s not really statism, G. The govts. not running the show, or planning the economy–the corporations are.

  22. Horatiox…

    How is it that Al Sharpton claims publicly that America voted for socialism when it voted for Obama but that doesn’t mean anything to you?

    How is it that Andy Stern and the other ACORN brothers have publicly stated they are soclialist, marxists, radicals all worked together to overthrow the US Government during the 60’s and they all work directly with Obama and his administration – in fact Andy Stern visited the Whitehouse more in the first year then nearly anyone else….yet that doesn’t matter.

    How is it that Van Jones is self-avowed communist and working closely with this administration even now after being booted out but that doesn’t matter?

    How is it that Obama’s pastor for over 20 years a publicly declared Marxists and hater of the USA could have absolutely no impact on Obama’s thinking? Oh wait Obama’s new spirtual advisor is another publicly declared Marxist and has publicly stated that Obamacare is specifically designed to bring Marxism into our government…yet that all escapes you?

    I could go on for pages with these references. Obama is a Marxist, he was raised as a Marxists, his most influential figures in his life were ALL Marxists or Communists.

    You know sometimes…if it hangs around with ducks, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck it really is just a duck.

    You really should study up on Occam’s razor it will help you clearly see the through truth with all of this.

    The progressives/Marxists have now completely hijacked what used to known as the Dem party and have inflitrated the GOP as well…they are parasites that must remain in the shadows for if they truly see the light of day – THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICA WILL REJECT THEM.

    • Why did he hire Goldman Sachs execs for his economic people? Or Larry Summers? etc. Why did he get so much support from Apple, Google, and corporate US? Or work with insur./pharma to get them a sweetheart deal?? Or continue Bush’s defense budget. etc.

      It’s not marxist–that’s just a typical rabble-rouser ploy. Sharpton’s not in control. Hillary and Goldman Sachs and Google are.

      I know all about Occam’s razor. Yr the one multiplying unseen entities, conspiracies, sinister plots etc. Anyway, America voted in Obama, for better or worse. The majority wanted health care (actually wanted public option). So blame democracy.

      • Obama lied to the American people during the campaign, over and over again. Gulliable, naive people voted for him. People that are exposed to the facts and are still supporting him need to reconcile their choice with themselves. The facts are clear. Obama is a Marxist, he is implementing a socialist state.

        His spending alone should be enough for everyone to stop supporting him.

        The end result is clear with this Horatiox – we either end up in another global war or we have a civil war. So hope all you Obama supporters are proud of your decision and choice becuase a lot of people are going to do die because of it. Unnecessary violence all because of someone’s ego.

      • Sounds vaguely ..threatening Glennster. Are you advocating violence against Demos, non-conservatives or health-care supporters? You might watch yourself–the Feds are looking out for the brick throwers and teabagger nuts.

        Either way, I did not vote for Obama, nor for McCaint.

        As the freaks used to say, Don’t F-ing Vote. It only encourages them.

        (I do vote when there’s a close battle, and something at stake).

      • Horatiox nothing threatening in what I say…history is clear. When an arrogant tyrant dismisses the public -violence happens. It sucks but that is what we are stuck with. Do you not watch the news – see what is happening? In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually learn that the threats and attacks on Dem offices were done by Andy Stern operatives…it is exactly the tactic they use.

        Most conservatives abhor violence Horatiox that is why they are largely apathetic. I don’t know of anyone that is suggesting violence is the answer or in the cards as a proactive response however it is coming and conservatives will not be the first ones to start some cowardly liberal will – just like Ayers, etc did in the 60’s.

        I know you didn’t vote for Obama but you love the Marxist agenda. For some reason you think people are incapable of taking care of themselves.

        In regard to your comment about the majority of America wanted Obamacare…that just isn’t true.

        And you know you don’t like Obamacare either but the end justifies the means…so be it. Right?

        Our country is at stake and the continued reckless and arrogant behavior of the Dems is putting EVERYTHING AT RISK.

      • Baloney–. The New Deal was not marxist. Keynes is not marxism. Nor is Jefferson & Co.

        You mistake any govt.intervention for socialism–not correct. Sort of Aynnie Rand style econ.–tho’ teabaggers are Randians, armed and dangerous.

        You simply don’t know what happened. The majority of Americans wanted health care. They got it, after BO and the demopublicans arranged things with the insurance corps.

  23. Horatiox it doesn’t bother you that Dem areas are getting twice as much stimulus as GOP area.

    That isn’t the Dem’s money to spend. It is the taxpayers hard earned money being used to further destroy democracy in our country.

    That is Chicago Mob 101…

  24. It cracks me up Horatiox that you keep referring to Jefferson…you should read up on him. His quotes alone would show you just how furious he would be right and he certainly condoned violence by the people to change what is happening.

    If the founders were alive today they would have already started something. They did it before on a 2 cent stamp on freakin tea.

    Wake up…we are no longer living in a free country as our founders had intended and quite frankly how the majority of Americans want to live.

    Look at the arrogance being displayed by Obama and then look at his 15 recess appointments made today. He is out of control, acting like a dictator and people are not happy – the majority are not happy.

    I talked directly over the last two days to people both from Venezeula and Russia and they said the same thing…they are amazed that people in America don’t understand what is happening here. To them it was completely obvious and their families are moving to other countries.

    The truth has been exposed, the Dems (ah er socialists) are all in and what will transpire over the next 6-9 months will boggle everyones mind. The amount of socialist/marxist legislation about to be jammed down the Americans throats will be unprecedented and the entire scam is going to backfire.

    Incredibly reckless and foolish. Of course the smart hard working producing conservatives will once again have to pay and save the useless liberal fodder in this country. What a joke.

  25. Jefferson was a classical liberal, not really a libertarian. He may have at times supported somewhat libertarian ideas, such as an efficient govt., but he also favored estate taxes and opposed the finance schemes of Hamilton. I’m pretty sure Jefferson favored govt. intervention when needed.

    Anyway, the HCR bill was voted in, by representatives elected by majorities. Not marxism. And it’s not state run; it’s private insurance companies. You sound almost Nugent like, Glennster. Glennster Nuge!


      Exactly what polls are you referring to that supports the majority of Americans want this?

      The HCR was passed through a process which shouldn’t be allowed. It wasn’t voted in through an open and honest process (like Obama and Pelosi both promised). It was done in the shadows and with payoffs, and processes that allowed them to slide this through. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows please don’t act like well now it is done you just have to accept it because Obama swindled his way into office and that is the end of it.

      You are witnessing the end of the Democratic party in this country. The backlash that is in progress right now is going to be quite severe. Not only will we witness in our lifetime as massive swing away from these progressive (marxist, socialist) programs, we will probably see term limits imposed and an actually probably see a very positive change in this country.

      However it is clear throughout history when this combination of tyrannical behavior within a government coupled with this level of reckless spending this ends in one of two ways – global war or civil war. You have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. One thing or another is going to come Horatiox and if you don’t think it can’t happen here you would be wrong it has happened a couple of times already and always has happened after the Dems have overreached in this country and this power grab is unprecedented.

      • You’re overgeneralizing as usual, just like the emotional Kossacks and hysterical teabaggers overgeneralize.

        A brief perusal of polls shows most demos favoring the HCR, and Obama. Most GOP don’t. There are more registered Demos than GOP. Ergo, a majority of the USA probably supports it, whether you or I approve, Glennster Nuge.

      • Talk about generalizations…LOL. Your summary on how you reached your conclusion that the majority of America supports Obamacare is itself a generalization and not accurate.

        I didn’t know CNN, CBS, USA Today were GOP pollsters…LOL

        Seriously these types of genralizations are surely horatioxic…

        You don’t even like HRC and you admited it is just another BS political piece of crap designed to line the pockets of the supporters of marxism in this country. It has very little to do with healthcare.

        Funny how even Clinton states that HRC will only cover 66% of the people that need insurance. In my book that is a failing grade. But with the liberaldiots a D is over-achieving.

        Just like Mr. Dewey always dreamed of…let’s create an educational system to make the American public stupid so we can have one world government. No excellence, just drones obeying the corrupt miscreants stealing our money and freedoms.

      • You don’t even like HRC and you admited it is just another BS political piece of crap designed to line the pockets of the supporters of marxism in this country.

        Not exactly what I said. Some po’ folks may be better off–they will be able to get cheaper premiums, and existing conditions are no longer banned–but it’s like …someone promised you steak and instead gives you…spam. You might survive, but…well, figure out the entailment.

        Furthermore it’s not just “marxists’ or bureaucrats who will benefit but corporate execs, a point you continue to overlook. Insurance corporations generally agree to the plan, Glennster. They want to make money from people, not put them in gulags (unless maybe they could profit from that as well).

  26. Baucus…

    “Too often, much of late, the last couple three years, the mal-distribution of income in American is gone up way too much, the wealthy are getting way, way too wealthy and the middle income class is left behind,” he said. “Wages have not kept up with increased income of the highest income in America. This legislation will have the effect of addressing that mal-distribution of income in America.”

    on HCR…what he explains is Marxism…plain and simple.

    He is a Marxist, HCR is Marxist, the Democrats are Marxists.

    • Bullsh**t. You don’t know what responsible govt. planning is. For that matter, taxes are still lower than they were under Clinton (or Nixon as well).

      Thanks to BushCo or Schwarzenegger-style libertarian economics, about 20,000 teachers were just laid off in California. Just what Glennster approves. Why, govt. helping people, providing jobs, bringing in more tax revenues from uber-wealthy to help save critical infrastructure like education–“marxism”.

      I doubt you’d say that to some career educators terminated by know-nothing CA-GOP politicians (with help from spineless-crats).

      • Responsible government planning???????????????????

        Spend what you don’t have is responsible?

        Create your debt up to 90% of what you make – that is responsible?

        There is no responsible anything going on with the marxists in control of government. They just want to overload the system until it completely fails and then they can replace it with socialism.

        The only entitlement that should be allowed:

        You are entitled to get off your arse slacker and look for a job.

  27. The day after Obama signed the bill, the Detroit radio stations were reporting that people were showing up at emergency rooms for their “free health care.” They were shocked to find out that they would have to wait until 2013.

    And he has already lost the bounce he got from hardcore Dems…LOL.

    Once signing HCR…he got no bounce from GOP or Indepedents…it will all DEM and now that is evaporating.

  28. You mean he’s pro-union , Glennster.

    Which is to say, opposed to financiers and management. So the orders have gone out from like Foxnews Hdqtrs: call him a …Red!

    Mo’ teabagger bull-sh**t, Glennster Nuge.

    • Pro-union????????

      He wants to mandate ALL JOBS be in a union.

      That isn’t pro-union that is the nationalization of ALL our jobs. That is socialism.

      No wonder Andy Stern is the most frequent visitor to the White House.

      Yeah let’s take what hasn’t worked for 9% of our work force and scale it to 100% so we can have a complete meltdown of our system.

      While we are at it…54% of the country wants the healthcare repealed.

      Horatiox…should we talk about reparations while we are at it?

      Take from the haves (that have earned it) and give to the have nots….yeah that isn’t marxism….naw…we are just being kind. Yeah kind of stupid!

  29. Let’s talk about the brilliant plans to release the gitmo detainees…over 100 have returned to the battlefield to fight us.

    Just brillant, absolutely brillant!

  30. “Most of these people [in the Administration] have never had a real job in their lives. They don’t understand a thing about business, and that includes the President,” says a senior lobbyist for one of the companies that announced the charge. “My CEO sat with the President over lunch with two other CEOs, and each of them tried to explain to the President what this bill would do to our companies and the economy in general. First the President didn’t understand what they were talking about. Then he basically told my boss he was lying. Frankly my boss was embarrassed for him; he clearly had not been briefed and didn’t know what was in the bill.”

    • You don’t argue, Glennster; you merely bark, like Rush Lim-dawg. Were you in Searchlite with the Harry Reid abusers and stalkers, and strip-club GOP? You would have fit in.

      • Yeah that sounds just like what I would do. Have you noticed it is all the leftist whackos making the threats and causing the violence?

        However Horatioxic your venomous spew about the Tea Party makes you sound very homophobic and a sexist especially since the majority of the Tea Party is women.

      • No venom. Laughter. Like at you, now using the shallow PC rhetoric itself.

        The supposed majority of women is itself a teabag spin–their data (ie, most likely fraud)

        And as usual you’re playing your usual juvenile bipartisan game. I’m not a registered Dem (tho’ respect New Deal demo tradition and principles). But certainly not in the Sarah Searchlight party.

      • Horatioxic…watch this leader within the Tea Party movement that you and Joe are so afraid of.

        I would be willing to bet that if you sat down with this woman both of you would have a lot more in common with her than you do with someone like Pelosi…

      • Rabid anti-tax people don’t quite understand our economic and political problems. First off, taxes are not that high, historically speaking. Generally, the rich GOP–yacht club GOP– complain about taxes and govt. spending, and then order the middle/working class GOP–evinrude GOP– to do the same.

        But the rich should bear more of a burden. Even Nixon kept taxes above 50% on the wealthy. A few increases on capital gains and many govt. programs would be saved (and deficit brought under control).

        Rhetoric and political “memes” often replace Reason, and many people lose their ability to think (assuming they ever could). That’s what has happened with the teabagger movement–they chant memes–tho’ neither party has a monopoly on hysteria and irrationalism.

        Now, if Teabaggers wanted an example of stupid, PC liberalism (with little or no relation to like FDR style demo. politics), they should link to the daily whines of Byronia of New Worlds. (thankfully, not all Demos are as ridiculous as that).

  31. All that from a Climate post! ? Glenn on vids please don’t use full URL = embedding. Just list the link as below so it won’t appear in the thread as a video, just as a link. Free speech here but not free video mania 😆

  32. Glenn I’m having a lot of trouble following how you can seriously worry about a duly elected president leading a communist takeover based in Chicago. All the indirect references to “violence is coming” are very alarming to me – that’s very much the kind of talk we had from folks like Ayers during Vietnam era – the idea that if you don’t agree with the system you need to think in terms of destroying it violently. This is PROFOUNDLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL and very anti American unless you pervert the meaning of the declaration of independence.

    Many of the problems you seem to think are from ‘taxation” are NOT they are from OVERSPENDING / excessive borrowing.

    • Joe the tax issues just further add insult.

      The spending is so far out there now…they couldn’t possibly tax enough to even make a dent in the damage that has been done.

      Increased taxes are the least of our worries but it will just be another broken promise by the big zero!

      I suggest you read history Joe and not the revised version that the progressives want you to read. You will clearly see where we end up. And when the violence does hit our country it will be from the likes of union thugs already inciting violence. It won’t be from peace loving conservatives.

      • Glenn that letter looks like a hoax – the typical bogus stuff they put up at Gateway Pundit.

        But even if it’s true “crashing” a Tea Party is hardly a violent act….gee whiz you are exaggerating so much of this stuff so wildly.

        The will of the people matters a lot, and you seem to discard the views of a majority of Americans because they don’t match what you want to be – that’s fine in terms of making a case for change, but it’s not OK to say the system is failing just because you don’t like the decisions made using the consent of the governed.

      • Joe you drink from the Kool-aid press. The only people in majority supporting Obama is his base and that is even sliding again.

        The polls are clear. The majority of Americans want HCR repealed. If it were so popular how come it was such a struggle and billions in bribes had to be made.

        It is too bad that your desire to turn America into Canada or a mediocre European socialist country blinds you from the facts…the facts don’t matter only that we just screwed over every American with poor healthcare.

        Joe they are calling for violence in the crashing…are you seriously that brain-washed?

  33. Horatiox across all categories we are the second highest taxed nation for corporations, and we are #1 in some categories.

    It hasn’t worked out well for Japan and it isn’t going to work out well for us either.

    Of course if you expose the truth of the tax increases you get summoned to congress by Marxists like Waxman.

    Taxation without representation is a problem in this country – for all. With the spend rate and the reckless spending by both political parties EVERYONE should be concered over their tax dollars. Contrary to what the Dems want everyone to believe…it the taxpayers hard earned money…not the government’s to just waste.

  34. Do you guys have any opinions on Terry Lakin and his questioning of orders? Why hasn’t this been resolved yesterday?

  35. The Glennster quotes…Greenwald?

    That’s no Teabagger, g. but a do-gooder, Ralph Nader sort. I doubt yr pals at Teabag Inc. would approve. That said, Greenwald does have enough spine to take on the hypocrisy of corporate Demos as well as the GOP–one reason the d-KOS horde now supposedly hates him.

  36. Uh oh, fact-checked by one of those tough Tea-baggers (who, as Miss Palin says, love God AND Guns). Maybe the T-B crew should check the facts on tax rates—still at low points in US history (was at 50% on upper brackets, even during Reagan’s admin, until ’86). With inadequate tax revenues, the Fed and state govt.s will slide further into record deficits, if not bankruptcy.

  37. Talk about violence Joe…here is where it is coming from.

    The stooges supporting the leftist agenda in this country…mainly SEIU

  38. Do unionists pose a threat to your business, G? You certainly seem to hate them. Really, union membership has declined substantially in last few decades–the union baiting a typical tea-bagger BS stunt.

    • I just can’t stand anyone who thinks they are entitled to anything…and unions think they are entitled.

      GM is a perfect example of why unions must be abolished and banned in free countries. Because of the unions the core principles of contract law were violated by this Whitehouse and the bondholders were totally screwed over.

      Unions pose no threat to me. I would close any business I had long before unions were forced.

      Andy Stern and some of Obama’s appointees want to make it mandatory in this country – if you get a W-2 you must be in a union. They will also use the union angle to sieze the retirement funds in this country – watch it is coming.

  39. Not sure where you guys buy your kool-aid…but the trend is clear.

    America hates HCR and wants it repealed.

    Joe you claim you are an independent, fiscal conservative yet on ALL issues that fiscal conservatives are against you are for.

    You are consistently on the wrong side of the equation – maybe it is time to admit your true ideological base and that rests with less than 1/3 of this country.

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