I’ve detailed some of my misadventures at Real Climate.org, the sometimes insightful but usually activism-masquerading-as science water cooler for folks who buy the notion that human-caused global warming (aka “AGW”) is on a rampage that is increasingly likely to end with the destruction of global civilization as we know it.
My greatest frustration at RealClimate is the bizarre comment moderation policy, which effectively squelches most informed dissent in favor of “supportive” comments from the regulars. My reasonable comments have so often been zapped out that I don’t post there anymore – it’s a waste of my time (and theirs!) to compose a thoughtful reply only to have it reviewed by a climate scientist who takes some offense by people less interested in parroting the party line than questioning some of the nuanced, globally warmed interpretations of proxy data.
But I digress…
Enter Nathan Myhrvold and the fun new book “SuperFreakonomics”, which was the subject of RealClimate’s spurious attack piece of the week by Raypierre:
The problem wasn’t necessarily that you talked to the wrong experts or talked to too few of them. The problem was that you failed to do the most elementary thinking needed to see if what they were saying (or what you thought they were saying) in fact made any sense. If you were stupid, it wouldn’t be so bad to have messed up such elementary reasoning, but I don’t by any means think you are stupid.
Now, it’s one thing to make a case that a bunch of whacky bloggers or frothing-at-the-mouth fools like Glenn Beck don’t understand the issues surrounding Global Warming, but it is ridiculous to make this case against a guy like Myhrvold who has both the business credentials and academic ones to suggest he’s very well informed. He was Microsoft’s Chief Tech Officer and he is the founder of the globally respected “Intellectual Ventures” think tank. He’s also got the academic chops to debate these issues thoughfully: Master’s degrees in Geophysics/Space Physics and in Mathematical Economics and a Ph.D. in Mathematical Physics.
Here’s Myhrvold’s reply which includes this real nugget of wisdom:
One of the saddest things for me about climate science is how political it has become. Science works by having an open dialog that ultimately converges on the truth, for the common benefit of everyone. Most scientific fields enjoy this free flow of ideas.
The good news is that some good scientists who do NOT have a political agenda are (finally) starting to speak out forcefully when attacked by those who do. The end game is already obvious because reason tends to prevail over ranting. We should soon soon see the alarmist rhetoric die down in favor of real discussion of real issues, and as we do let’s tip our hats to Nathan and others who are willing to simply state the obvious, regardless of the political implications of doing that.
Joe Duck 
Joe why do you have to resort to constant attacks on Glenn Beck? Are you not liking the light of day being shown on the reality of what is happening here?
Assuming you accept the IPCC, Al Gore 100%, take their numbers…their calculations, etc.
They predict we will see a 7 degree temperature rise ALL because of CO2. So let’s assume that is correct.
For the world to stop just 1 degree, just 1 degree it would require the entire planet to stop using ALL electricity, cars, planes, trains, boats, etc…for 33 years!!! That is everyone giving EVERYTHING up for 33 years!!! It is impossible so the solutions proposed for climate change are just scams – NONE OF THEM WILL PROVIDE ANY RESULTS.
We need to adapt and we need to take our time with all of this to find out what is true…these same lunatics were predicting an ice age back in the 1970’s…it is their political agendas that are driving and it has little to do with the actual environment.
Do the math and see for yourself – 1 degree of climate change = 1 trillion tons of C02 – that is their projection not mine. 1 trillion tons of CO2 = 33 years of the worlds total production.
I admit it was kind of a cheap shot, but as you know in general I think Beck is whipping up hatred and anger rather than providing smart alternatives (he spends most time attacking rather than offering solutions). He’s also very solidly in the “dumb denial” camp that challenges even the obvious – there is global warming and some of it is likely to be caused by human activity). I really want to distance myself from that view. Alarmism is not called for but neither is denial of Global Warming.
Joe Glenn Beck is the ONLY ONE that is trying to shine light on all the scams we are facing. Politics, corruption, special interest and political correctness is destroying our planet at a much faster rate than global warming.
Glenn Beck wouldn’t even exist if we didn’t have a Chicago style political assasination machine controling our MSM. If they actually did their job instead of keeping their heads up the big O’s ass we would be getting the debate going on everything. We are facing huge decisions and people are supporting ideas that are based on falsehoods, manipulations, etc and the ideas are surrounded by solutions that do little to actually solve the problem.
According to Al Gore and IPCC the world produces between 33 and 36 billion tons of CO2 a year. To affect 1 degree temperature change you need to displace 1 trillion tons. Do the math explain to me how this is possible? Cap & Tax won’t do it…it is as bad as the Catholic indulgences of the past – pay for a sin you are about to commit. It is twisted and it does nothing to solve the problem.
So if you believe global warming is real (Holdren a science czar for Obama thought we would be in an ice age back in the 70’s) and these people are supposed to be so smart how is our country is in such a mess? How come they are claiming the debate is over? How can someone like Al Gore amass more than 100 million so far personally if he really is concerned about saving the planet?
The entire thing is a scam and designed to rob us of our wealth and freedoms – I mean who doesn’t want to try to save the planet? Let’s take one of the four most common elements in the universe and name it a pollutant so we can tax it? Hello McFly…it’s obvious!!!
The deck has been set, you are playing a hand that is rigged and the name of the game isn’t Save The Planet.
If we are experiencing climate change at the level they are predicting (which is under serious question) then our best bet for survival is either adapt here or relocate to another planet.
There is no way we can affect the CO2 offset required (if you believe the IPCC) in the time-frame. So since that is 100% fact – mathematically proven, why try to do something that is going to cause severe economic damage? Let’s make it harder for us to have the funds and innovation necessary to adapt.
Think about it…this is lunacy. What happens when we do all these things that Obama, Holdren, Gore, UN, IPCC want us to do and we find out that they were totally wrong? Should they all be charged with treason against the world?
Adaptation through innovation is the solution not some BS legislation that amounts to nothing more than a massive world tax and redistribution of wealth.
The only thing Beck is whipping up is hatred toward the ideas against freedom. If you love freedom then you better hate the solutions currently be forced upon us.
Obama wasn’t kidding when he said he was going to transform our country.
You better start watching Glenn Beck because it is the only place you will get the truth and the truth is what we need right now.
You have to look carefully at what they are doing and what they are saying. Massive disconnected pieces of legislation are being run through in the middle of the night attached to bills that no one is reading.
Sustein is an expert on manipulation legislation to get what he wants. They tweak the language ever so slightly to open the door for the socialism they are bringing forward. The know the American people will never accept but every day we are waking up to more things that have changed and they are all screaming socialism.
If you love your country and truly don’t believe in socialism then you will stand with the majority of the country and shed light on what is truly happening. If you are willing to accept socialism then keep doing what you are doing.
Joe read this…
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/business/energy-environment/03gore.html
Isn’t it obvious what is going on? You are going to tell me that $560 million in taxpayer money being directed to the company Al Gore is behind isn’t rent-seeking thus corruption.
This is all big game to these political scumbag scam artists and they are going to drive us to civil war – people are not going to stand for this crap and nobody should. We are witnessing some of the biggest financial crimes in the history of the world and yet people are still following these idiots right to their slaughter.
[Glenn Beck]’s also very solidly in the “dumb denial” camp that challenges even the obvious – there is global warming and some of it is likely to be caused by human activity).
Good point. Doubts about the official IPCC models should not be mistaken for Foxnews-level idiocy and carny-barker politics. Holy Golden Plates of Moroni, Batman.
Carny-barker politics – great term! Another turn of phrase award goes to Horatiox!
Glenn Beck is an entertainer that is for sure…he has never claimed to be a journalist, etc…
But what claims has he made that are wrong? If he makes a mistake he clears it up, tells the truth the way he sees it.
There is no spin, no games, he is just laying the facts out in the daylight.
Everyone wants to attack Fox and Glenn Beck, etc but they do it with generalizations and personal attacks but they NEVER spell out what and how they got it wrong – because you can’t…they are exposing a lot of stuff that quite frankly you should care a lot about.
Fox through independent sources has clearly shown Fox is the most balanced of all the news organizations. Fox isn’t some right wing facility…there coverage is nearly 50-50 you just haven’t seen that in so long that you can bear to think that Obama, et al have been manipulating you all the way along.
Obama’s people have even admitted on tape that they are masters as controlling what the media reports and go as far as bragging how the media only reports what Obama says…not the meaning, etc…
Wake up…think for yourself for once!!!
Glenn do you believe the *long term* surface temperature trend on earth is up, down, or unclear? Only reasoned answer is: Temps are up
Is any of this warming attributable to human causes? The most reasonable answer is “at least some of it”.
The issues in the debate are not that it’s a scam and certainly not that there is no warming – rather they are economic because you are correct that it’s absurd to think humans will reduce CO2 enough to make enough of a difference and also that doing so is probably not worth the cost in terms of lost lives from the poverty we’ll see with massive mitigation schemes like the ill-advised Kyoto Protocol.
Just because political / activist alarmism is driving the debate does NOT suggest there is no important and legitimate real scientific debate under all the hot air. There is and we’re starting to see that take shape as the catastrophic prognostications are turning out to be … greatly exaggerated.
Joe it has nothing to do with what the earth is doing. The fact of the matter is…if CO2 is to blame then Cap & Trade and the current solutions offered by the UN, Al Gore, IPCC, etc…WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO AFFECT THE SURFACE TEMP.
That is the discussion, that is the debate. Of course the planet is going through climate change…it always is…what causes it…well that isn’t as clear.
However what is clear is there is little we can do about it.
We need to develop technologies that are going to allow to adapt regardless of what happens to the climate – that is the smart thing to do.
Look at how bad they screwed up the ozone hole…in fact most scientists agree that hole is necessary to let heat escape it is a natural process of opening and closing. Now they try to close the hole and they put in a material that traps 15,000 X’s the greenhouse gases…complete and utter stupidity.
We know based on the very simple calculations of the data professed to be the truth by Al Gore and the IPCC that each degree of surface temperature raises with each trillion tons of CO2.
Since the world today produces between 33-36 billion tons of CO2 a year…it would take 33 years or so just to impact 1 degree of surface temp change if EVERYONE just stopped using all forms of energy, drove no cars whatsoever, flew no planes, etc…etc… IT CAN’T HAPPEN so the whole thing is just a scam.
Why is everyone afraid of the truth?
If the threat were as dire as they suggest Joe…we would have already destroyed 100% of the cattle in the world…in fact they should check the CO2 production for all animals maybe we need to eliminate all of them as well.
All cars, planes, etc would be banned. We would go back to no electricity, etc…
And of course Al Gore would stop flying in his Gulfstream, eliminate meat, etc…
See how ridiculous how all this sounds? So given they feel this is all true…what is their solution?
A FREAKIN TAX…
Welcome to Scamnation 2009
Gee maybe as the truth comes out…will it be reported here…
“Gore explored new studies – published only last week – that show methane and black carbon or soot had a far greater impact on global warming than previously thought. Carbon dioxide – while the focus of the politics of climate change – produces around 40% of the actual warming. Gore acknowledged to Newsweek that the findings could complicate efforts to build a political consensus around the need to limit carbon emissions.”
Oh wow…you mean C02 might NOT be the main culprit? You mean the science isn’t yet settled on this? Oh wait didn’t Gore and Obama say this debate was over?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olmag5Cu9TI
They are getting desperate…
Amid increasing incidents of climate protesters disrupting the operations of fossil-fuel industries and airports in Britain and elsewhere, Gore suggests the scale of the emergency means non-violent lawbreaking is justified. “Civil disobedience has an honourable history, and when the urgency and moral clarity cross a certain threshold, then I think that civil disobedience is quite understandable, and it has a role to play,” he says. “And I expect that it will increase, no question about it.”
Beck probably just spouts whatever anti-AGW news they tell him to spout, and I doubt he knows CO2 from CIA. The older Fox science dude, Steven Milloy (of http://www.junkscience.com/) seemed pretty informed on the AGW issues, but he’s no longer on Team Fox (perhaps too brainy? Or not sufficiently pious? Not sure).
Milloy did have some ties to oil biz–not good–but he’s a statistician (reportedly), and knows his stuff. His points on Gore’s Global warming profiteering are also worth a read–even if we don’t agree with ALL of his green-bashing, or his politics.
Effective non-partisan thinking requires reading people whose politics we might not agree with–a skill lacking in the Fox-news wingnut right, and the Jon Stewart- worshipping hysterical liberal-left. As with poor Byronius (aka Hoss-Ron) of New Worlds: just say FOX to him, and he starts to shake and quiver, like most D-crats; the very word scares him and makes him tremble.
Really, a Katie Couric or Olbermann is every bit a demogogue as Beck.
(Milloy here refers to Al Gore):
7. When you left public service in January 2001, your personal net worth was perhaps $2 million. In 2007, your personal net worth was reported to be on the order of $100 million. How much of this fortune is related, directly or indirectly, to your advocacy of legislation to reduce “global warming”?
Bada bing, bada boom. Few D-crats have been brave enough to ask that eminently reasonable question of Al Gore, Inc. (and as Milloy points out, most of the GOPers now go along with the official, corporate AGW line)
I brought up Gore’s massive wealth growth in such a short time and the responses on here were that he just made smart investments…LOL
unbelievable…
Gore’s newfound wealth came mostly from Apple and Google options. I suppose you could make a case that he would not have been involved with those companies if he had not been a GW crusade, but it’s a weak case.
Gore is sincere about warming and is a sharp guy. That hardly makes him right, but it’s one of the reasons he has been successful in business and politics, including winning the 2000 Presidency if our voting systems were more effective (The Palm Beach County butterfly ballots cost Gore the election. This is not rationally disputable even though it’s conveniently forgotten by many). No conspiracy, just the collateral damage from odd, archaic voting system.
One big difference between Couric, Olbermann and Beck…
No one can seem to point out how Beck is wrong? No one can dispute his points?
Couric and Olbermann…there are plenty examples of them being wrong…
Well, Beck’s approach is entirely wrong. I can stand O’ Reilly’s pontificating for a few minutes, though not usually agreeing–or a few minutes of Hannity, however mach-O (like his crony Silwa the Sashay-er). O’Reilly refers to experts or at least evidence once in a while. Beck on the other hand sounds like a used-car salesman.
Fox produces a strange effect on corporate liberals, however: I think it’s akin to say old mobsters hearing the cops mentioned (you’ll never get me copper). Just the names of Eliot Ness, the “Untouchables,” and the g-men frightened Al Caponay’s gang back in the day (not to say the cops were ALWAYS good).
Or consider John Walsh, or Nancy Grace–really, I think Nancy’s show probably does some good. Nancy Grace scares the sh**t out of Kossacks, or DUers, or say Byronius, and the boys of New worlds. why? She’s like the TV cop, and like most online chesters, they got plenty to hide.
That holds even for the Gore/Clinton/Obama camp. The corporate liberals (and really, wealthy, corporate GOP) don’t want the light shining on them.
I don’t understand what you mean “Beck’s approach is entirely wrong”…
All he does is play clips of what these communists, marxists, radicals, criminals are saying?
The fact is…if the media did their job we wouldn’t need Glenn Beck. So however he does it…all that matters is the information gets out.
Look at how the media portrayed the Islam terrorist at Fort Hood…their coverage and spin is an absolute disgrace.
For us to have freedom and liberty we need the truth…without it we have tryanny. Political correctness masks the truth and restricts freedom and liberty
We might not care for Obama, but he’s no communist. Commies don’t approve of 1/4 trillion bailouts. A few of BO’s people might have had a bit of contact with marxism, but Beck blows it out of proportion (as with the Van Jones thing). He’s an alarmist. A few republicans have contacts with the Klan (or even nazis, back in Prescott Bush’s day).
Unless Horatiox…Obama is using the Clower Piven strategy to overwhelm our system to ultimately destroy capitalism and the free markets. It is not out of the realm of possibility especially considering who is big money supporters are (i.e. soros, etc).
They want to push our system to break and the replace it under emergency situation.
It is the only rational explanation for the irrational and reckless behavior.
He seems to be pretty buddy buddy with a lot of people that absolutely hate America.
Horatiox I agree. In fact the “real” far left is very upset with Obama because he’s not doing enough to bring forward a far left agenda.
Glenn here you paint “Big Govt” as communism when that is simply not the case. European style pseudo socialism is popular among a lot of Americans, and even though I don’t agree with them it’s hardly at attempt to overturn our Government as Beck whines on about constantly.
The funny thing is that you can’t see through guys like Beck. He not only sounds like a used car salesman as Horatiox says, Beck *is* a used idea salesman. He tones things down on TV but his basic approach is to set up stupid straw man “red baiting” arguments and then rant against a few isolated and often irrelevant people singled out as left wing scapegoats.
Then he (correctly) notes that free markets, individual freedoms, small government are good ideas we need to preserve as the big Govt gang keeps on trucking.
The greatest current danger to American freedom is the tendency for people to think tribally on both sides of the frothOsphere.
Our system has worked pretty well for hundreds of years because most of the players respect it. As both left and right increasingly claim the system is broken beyond repair, they (ironically) are sowing seeds of potential systemic destruction. Although I have a lot of confidence that reasonable people will prevail as they have throughout history, I deeply resent how Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Ingram, Coulter, Savage etc, etc. abuse their huge media power daily to challenge the integrity of a system they claim to respect, and froth incoherently that the “mainstream media” has control of the hearts and minds of the country.
Yes we are seeing reasonable people prevailing today with Pelosi, Frank, Obama pushing through healthcare…
It must be nice to drink the kool-aid, ridicule others and just ignore facts, the truth and anything else that sheds the light on the idealogs.
Joe with your un-wavering and pathetic support of Obama you are going to end up on the wrong side of history and you can explain that to your grandchildren. You call yourself a fiscal conservative and there is NO fiscal conservative on this planet that could support Obama just on what he did in the first 60 days…now we are 9 months later and you guys are sucking up the message, we are in a recovery, the stimulus did what it was supposed to do, we need cap & trade, we need universal healthcare…
Seeing anyone still supporting this agenda is what is most disturbing. The only snake oil salesman right now is Obama, you know it, you won’t it admit and history will show you and others supporting Obama were dead wrong and generations to come are going to pay dearly for the foolish votes cast 1 year ago.
Glenn although I’d agree that Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, and a few folks on the left are also guilty of a lot of irrational ranting, their power is trivial compared to the right. You throw a lot of seasoned legitimate journalists into the “left winger” pile unreasonably.
Glenn even the picture Beck paints of communism is fraudulent, naive, and simplistic. He’s hold up North Korea as the example when obviously China is the best representative of the “new” communism, very pro USA and pro-capitalism within the confines of a centralized government that increasingly allows personal freedoms and practices “laissez faire” business principles.
Based on my many arguments with friends and relatives, both left and right wing folks are almost completely stuck with the political notions they developed as children in the 60’s
“dang North Korean commies” or “dang US imperialism and corporations”.
Meanwhile, the world has moved on and is leaving both those silly ideas in the dustbin of history.
The potential for positive change is staggering. Let’s get to it.
Power is trivial compared to the right???
The only reason Beck, etc have any power is because people want the truth not the BS from our Communist inspired government.
And China is no example of anything positive Joe…why don’t you go over there and have them murder one of your kids because you had too many or the wrong kind?
It’s absurd. There is nothing positive about China’s government.
Glenn if the media was as influential and left wing as you suggest, how in the world did we see the election of Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II? Not to mention that the USA has *never* had anything approaching a socialist government. It’s just a silly fiction of the right. The current congress and President are probably *closer* than we’ve ever been, but hardly socialist!
Like all countries, China is a mix of positive and negative. I have been “over there” and I think Americans mostly have a very odd view of how rapidly and positively change is happening there.
Joe I have been all over Asia…they put a price tag on all life…it is imoral PERIOD. Until they fix that little problem they will never be viewed positively.
You go to China…you get to see what they want you to see.
There are massive problems over there and without the US consumers available to buy their goods…they are in very deep trouble now – their excess capacity is staggering and soon we will see just how bad China will be.
If the media just told the truth and if we actually had a system that held people accountable it would be a lot different.
Did you ever notice that politicians are always afraid of the truth and accountability? I wonder why that is?
Joe I have been all over Asia…they put a price tag on all life
Glenn what in the world are you talking about? Where did you go and what did you see that makes you think there are such massive problems in Asia?
Their entire existence (economically) is based on providing cheap labor source for the rest of the world – it is a commodity, very little strategic long-term value. Other 3rd world countries will figure out the equation and continue to eat into China’s market share. They are also one of the most corrupt governments in the world.
Coupled with the massive problem of over-capacity right now. No one is buying anything their factories are beginning to sit idle and they have nothing to fall back on. You think we have safety problems now with Chinese goods wait until you see the nightmare coming.
Joe I was personally in a situation working a job over there where an American worker was docked and fired over the loss of a ~$300 two-way radio. Can you imagine? Let’s put it in perspective.
He dropped the radio while saving an older lady working in an area that unfortunately caught on fire. He saved the lady – she had twisted her ankle and could not move, the radio was destroyed in the fire. She was someone’s grandmother – the American worker was told he should have left the lady there. Needless to say I pulled my company out of working with anybody that thinks like that.
The more I hear about your positions Joe the more it looks like you have become an apostle for the Soros, Podesta evolution of the world.
NO ONE should be supporting a George Soros – you need to get the facts about this man and his family.
Why do the right-wing-libertarians hate Soros so much?? He’s not exactly Che Guevara, but a high-powered capitalist, dedicated to making money–no different than a Gates, Googleco or Steve Jobs (Apple uses sweatshops across the globe–even lower on PC scale than a MS, or SorosCO). They apparently consider Soros a member of the Illuminati if not an actual……… Shapeshifter.
Horatiox it is what he is. His father worked with the Nazi’s and Soros has never apologized for it. His family turned in their own family members and friends to the Nazi’s…etc…dispicable.
He also blatently states he wants to destroy capitalism and the American way…why would anyone that is American support him? Unless of course you agree with them…then that just makes you Anti-American.
OK. Soros may be sinister–but is he Shapeshifter-sinister? Unlikely, Glennster. Now, what about…David Rockefeller? Nothin’ but…..Draconian.
Horatiox…all you need to do is go back and listen and read what these people have been saying.
Soros is on record a few years ago stating that they will bring down the US auto industry.
He spends millions upon millions to disrupt this country and destroy the free market and capitalism. It is ironic to me because without capitalism none of these people would have a pot to piss in. So that can only mean one thing…this is a MASSIVE power grab and they want to preclude whom they choose from living the dream.
Obama is deep in the game with Soros and Soros is getting paid back for supporting Obama.
Rockefeller is just nuts.
I think anyone that wants to take away freedoms and liberty is an enemy to humanity. Governments never can grant any right they can only take away rights.
Krugman’s recent rants have an odd tone to them (and as I said, Orwellian). I’m not in GOP (or Demos)–but find Krugman’s “thought-police” writing objectionable, both in terms of the climate-change, and his rabid defense of Obama’s health-care proposal.
The comrades of New Worlds have no problem ditto-ing the great millionaire progressive-professor Krugman:
“”The point is that the takeover of the Republican Party by the irrational right is no laughing matter. Something unprecedented is happening here — and it’s very bad for America.
So now we have a pandemic of mentally ill and very, very dangerous citizens. They do not want to be ignored – according to the piece by Krugman – so let’s not ignore them. I think there may still be enough of of who have not been infected by the F1I2* crazy virus that if we band together and vote sanely we can…yada yada yada
http://new-worlds.org/blog/?p=3206
Note the move from Krugman’s “irrational right” to a “”pandemic of mentally ill… very dangerous citizens” I doubt even Krugman, however corrupt, would agree with that inference (really the writer sounds fairly mentally ill herself–and what’s more she doesn’t seem to realize that her blog buddy aka “Byronius” is one of those irrational rightists and a former GOP-er [at least of Log cabin sort– ;)], as well as a biblethumper and Schwarzenegger supporter).
Yes, there are irrational rightists–the “teabaggers” and biblethumpers for one. However, irrational leftists are quite numerous as well (–like on KOS, or New Worlds itself). Krugman wants us to believe that all that is politically proper may be located in the Democratic party, and that simply cannot be substantiated. As with Obama’s mandatory, private insurance health plan –even blue dog dems object to it, as should any rational person.
Speaking of the irrational, tough guy Byronius [aka Hoss] of New Worlds now decides to beat up on some catholic mothers, in traditional dixie-WASP fashion (they used to call catholic and hispanic-bashers klansmen, now they are PC “atheists”).
Also note the patented Byronius fallacy, this time the sweeping generalization–most religious people are like this one mother, and really like the torturers of the Inquisition! Forgetting that even the VP of the USA is a catholic, as is Ms Pelosi (catholic hypocrisy is an issue, of course, but generally not nearly as problematic as the WASP sort, whether believers, or not).
The climate-change zealots tend not to be scientists, but political writers and economists, like Paul Krugman. Krugman calls anyone who doubts the official models of AGW “traitors”–Orwellian double-speak at its finest. And like most of the corporate liberals, Krugman wants to insinuate that anyone who objects to IPCC/Gore thereby sides with the Foxnews zealots, or biblethumpers (or…Iluminati). BS. Gore himself was pro-corporate, anti-union, and hawk-like while VP for Clinton, anyway.
The science of AGW, questions related to data, ice cores, tree rings are NOT political issues, and those who politicize every factual issue are no better than Stalinists of the 30s arresting those who doubted Lysenko (doubt the official CO2 claims, and the realclimate squad calls you a nazi, more or less).
It doesn’t matter what the claims are, etc…
The entire point is that the schemes developed under the guise of saving the planet are complete and utter scams. The people behind them should be thrown in jail for life – it is completely outrageous what has been proposed.
You can do the math Horatiox – use the IPCC numbers…to change 1 degree in the surface temperature it will take a complete freeze of ALL CO2 production world-wide for 33 years. It’s impossible, it can’t happen – SO NO LEGISLATION, SCHEME, etc is viable.
This is about power and taxes…nothing about making a difference for the planet.
This is about putting the “players” in place for a government contrived and controlled industry with no competition and no real innovation and about the unionization of the rest of the country.
You want to save humanity – we must invest in adaptation and the best way to do that is figure out how to survive on a different planet – we do that – we solve the problems that will allow us to survive here or anywhere.
Look no one wants to be a bad steward to the environment but let’s get serious and do something worthwhile for humanity not these corrupt politicians that want to enslave you.
More proof IPCC, Al Gore are a fraud…
http://www.physorg.com/news177059550.html
No Glenn, there is very little “fraud” going on in the climate community. There is a lot of unjustified alarmism but cooler heads will prevail as the data flows in to challenge the alarmist interpretations of what has been to date mostly good science. I do think the interpretations of the research are questionable as they almost always focus far too narrowly on how climate change is affecting things *negatively* and *dramatically*
I’d be a lot more comfortable if we saw a more lively discussion of issues such as the fact that cold weather kills more people than hot weather, the fact that earth is not warming much/ at all currently, CO2 lag times of hundreds of years, etc, etc. This is not to suggest GW is “good”, but it’s become so common to preface studies with statements along the lines of “… as a result of impending climate doom ….” that I’m worried researchers are too often somewhat blinded to an objective interpretation of their good data analysis.
I think Dendrochronology may be an interesting exception to the ‘good science’ rule. Over at http://www.ClimateAudit.org Steve McKintyre and friends are coming close to dismantling that “branch” of climate science. Still far too early to know how many of those studies are infected with bad methods and bad math, but I think we may be seeing the early stages of the destruction of a (narrow) scientific discipline under a withering attack of advanced statistical math. Can we trust tree ring chronologies to tell us much about climate? I’m starting to think the answer is … no.
Joe unjustified alarmism is fraud…lol.
There is more evidence coming out now that CO2 isn’t even the main culprit…as other scientists are now finding ways to get the information. The CO2 absorbtion for the planet is still just as strong as it was in 1850.
Face it…this entire scam was designed around finding a way to tax one of the four most common elements in the entire univerise…THE ENTIRE CO2 game is a tax scheme we are all going to be screwed!
Assuming McIntyre and Co have refuted some key claims of the IPCC/Gore camp, they should consider some type of legal action against GoreCo. Even assuming some warming trends (probably natural) Gore appears to have misrepresented the IPCC and AGW findings–perhaps for personal and political gain.
In effect, Gore/IPCC committed a hasty generalization fallacy (however trite), by assuming the scientific research and experimental work had been completed in regards to AGW, when it hasn’t. Gore has of course been assisted by eco-minded celebrities and other opportunistic politicians (including CA Gov. Girly Mann, aka Ahhnuld).
Yeah but we won the Nobel prize Horatiox…he couldn’t have done anything for profit or in a capitalist way…
Aye yi yi…this will go down in history as the biggest fraud ever attempted.
Guess we don’t have to worry about it…Brown from the UK declared a short-while ago that we only had 50 days left to save the planet…now Copehagen will be a bust and nothing will happen we might as well just resign ourselves to the fact that we are doomed…chicken little, chicken little we need you!
LOL…Horatiox you are going to love this one.
Al Gore shows off his brilliant intellect in regard to the earth.
Seriously why does anyone listen to Al Gore anymore? It is obvious from this nightmare interview that he wouldn’t dare debate – he would be toast in 5 minutes.
In this video clip Gore claims the earth’s core is millions of degrees in temperature. Seriously this is what he says…the core of our earth is around 5,000 degrees Celsius.
He also claims if you tap into this amazing heat source at 2km’s down (less than a mile and half for us Americans) we could create steam…lol. Typically that would be an increase of temperature in the range of 50 degrees…LOL.
Gore is a fraud plain and simple. Should probably be in a cell right next to Maddoff.
Now for the environmental side of me…geothermal is really great stuff and it has plenty of uses and something we should tap into we just need somebody that has a clue to talk about it.
Maybe Al Gore will claim he invented it…
Big Al’s not exactly Freeman Dyson–he managed like a C in Ecology-lite for Dixiecrats or something. He probably knows less about science than the average RN.
He speaks in complete sentences (complete with the hand-pointing), however, so he’s managed to convince gullible do-gooders everywhere that he has something to say (and managed to line his bank account while doing it).
That said, I’m not opposed to alternative energy. Solar’s doing pretty well in SoCal (and doing well in terms of making the energy czars wealthy).
Nice summary of the Dendro issue from National Review, which is almost always right-wing biased but right in this case:
http://planetgore.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Y2Q5ZGExZTc3ZTlmMTA5OTdhOGRjNzdlNmU4N2M4ZTg=
(17) Joe, cold weather kills more people than hot weather? It would be interesting to know how you came to that conclusion.
Update: This appears to be more controversial than I’d thought. More research needed.
It’s very well documented.Here’s a little summary: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_Hot_weather_or_cold_weather_cause_more_deathsHere’s the Lomborg piece that got me thinking about this topic:
Click to access Discover%20-%20Cool%20It%20extract.pdf
More on GW death stats:
http://ph.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090715111750AAyAXYR
(19) The article states that the data is for countries outside of tropical areas. Unless I misunderstood something.
(20)That article is focused on a certain part of the earth. Of course more people will die from cold in a cold climate.
Wow, this is a great blog topic, need to do a full post on this. As with many GW issues, *regionality* is a huge factor and I’m not currently clear if you can make a case that warming will increase/decrease deaths *globally*, which is the important measure. I think the good data tends to be from Northern Hemisphere = more affluent countries and it’s very clear that cold is more dangerous there.
Gee shocker…
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,662092,00.html
(25) Glenn, maybe the ice caps are acting as giant heat sinks at the current temperature level. When they are gone maybe the warming will resume.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/with-hurricanes-at-thirty-year-low-gore-turns-to-photoshop.html
More outrageous crap that Gore pulls to manipulate and lie to the public.
Seriously what a freakin loser!
Now HadleyCRU admits the data leaked on climate research is legit and quite frankly it exposes just how deep the fraud has gone.
What can you say now?
ALL of the perps should be in jail for life – PERIOD.
http://www.examiner.com/x-28973-Essex-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m11d19-Hadley-CRU-hacked-with-release-of-hundreds-of-docs-and-emails
I say get the tar and feathers out…