How low can stocks go? DOW drops to 7997. Panic or just … Palindromic?


Answer:  Very low, though I wildly speculate (putting me in the same expert category as any expert you can name) that DOW at 7000 and S&P at 700 will be the bottom of this megabear market, after which we’ll continue to see major trouble with the economy continue for at least 2 years during which many businesses will die, successful ones will consolidate and just keep in the game, and a handful of nimble and clever new businesses will thrive and lead the new “post recession” economy forward, probably based on impressive technological innovations now testing in a handful of big company R&D departments and literally *millions* of small business efforts around the globe.

Thanks to the internet, the rise of highly social media, and the plummeting cost of powerful computing I remain optimistic that technological innovation will pull us out of this crisis and remain for yet another century the key force behind most socioeconomic progress.

What’s pushing things down in stocks?    I think the main factor is simply that the market, which is predictive rather than reactive, overvalued how fast technology would trump other considerations and continue to lift mediocre companies ever higher.    It’s not as if many companies were doing profoundly brilliant stuff out there – on the contrary the auto companies were up to the same old stupid nonsene they’ve been doing for decades.   Financial companies were gambling with Credit Default Swaps and fueling the mortgage crisis with fundamentally irresponsible and misguided profiteering.   Even high tech companies, home to many of the globe’s best and brightest working for Yahoo, Intel, [Google?], and MSN found themselves in huge battles to protect market share and profitability while containing the onslaught of online spam.    Google may be something of an exception here as their profitability and advertising brilliance has – until recently – kept them squarely above much of the fray and on the path to more innovation.

About eight years ago this foolishness led to the bubble of 1990 where the internet company valuations were out of line with their potential for innovation.    The commercial internet revolution was an amazing thing in the 1990s and remains the most profound new development in history, but the companies were not all that inspired and most companies were destroyed by the very markets they had convinced to fund them in the first place.

So a far better question than “why are my stocks dropping?” is “Why were all these companies valued so highly in the first place?”     We needed a contraction to square the values with the prices, and now we are watching that happen.

Why 7000 DOW and 700 S&P?    At that point the markets will have dropped just over 50% from the highs of a few years ago.    I see that as a significant practical and psychological milestone.    “half off” is a very accessible notion as we know from retail, and we already know there’s a lot of money waiting on the sidelines to buy into a “market bottom”.     It’s reasonable to assume that at least some, and probably many of the companies hammered by this have been penalized irrationally by the broader market downturn.  As prices drop to 5 and 10 year lows some of these bargains will be irresistable to those with cash on hand, and this buying should  stabilize the market.

Will it rise quickly from 7000?    I say no – I think the globalized chickens have largely flown the coop and many of the unfair advantages we have enjoyed as Americans … will be no more.      I see no major depression looming and I see the USA as the economic “safe harbor” and leader for at least the next decade, but the days of easy prosperity are probably gone for some time so … buddy …. can you spare …. a dime?

Will 2010s be like 1930s? I sure hope not.


Wow.   I thought the crash in October 1929 brought the market down to  the low levels that signalled the great depression.  So I was surprised to learn that after a large rebound in the DOW it was really the declines of 1930 that brought the DOW down into the depression era numbers.   Look at the 1920’s rise of the DOW and fall to about 250 after the crash of October 1929:  Graphs Source is Dow Jones Indexes

Now comes the scary part.    Post crash DOW of about 199 was about FIVE TIMES the DOW lows seen during the great depression with a DOW at 41 (yes, that would be forty-one) in 1932.

OF COURSE you can overgeneralize from the depression data.   Today billions of shares trade in a market far greater than at that time, the global economy is totally different, etc, etc.

However what really concerns me is the fact that the drops we’ve seen of some 40% from DOW highs of the late 1990s look more like the 1929 prelude to a depression than I’d been thinking.   Are we in for just the modest rebound we’ve seen from the market lows of a few years ago and then a long slide into economic despair?    Is this even knowable?

Warren Buffett, in an excellent interview on Charlie Rose a few days ago, seemed to think that the bailout / rescue plan will avert a catastrophe, but he was clearly thinking there was at least some trouble ahead bailout or not.